New CTI Nosecone Question

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Taz
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Can the new CTI lightweight 54 mm nosecones be used with the regular, old style Madcow or Rocketry Warehouse 54 mm fiberglass tubes? The nosecone fits, but looks like it was made for thin walled tubes. I remember reading about the nosecones but can't seem to locate the threads. Could the body tube be sanded to match the nosecone, or would it be better to go with the classic Rocketry Warehouse / Madcow FW FG nosecone?
 
You are correct ....thin wall are what they are meant for. I found that by slicing off a 1/2-3/4in section of body tube, then gluing it to the nose cone shoulder, it was easier to fill and sculpt that joint. Then you have a perfect fit of body tube to body tube.

Further more... if you mark the tube before you cut it, where you are cutting it,on both sides of the cut,[I just draw a line & cut through it] then you have a perfect fit when done. Just align your key mark.
 
You are correct ....thin wall are what they are meant for. I found that by slicing off a 1/2-3/4in section of body tube, then gluing it to the nose cone shoulder, it was easier to fill and sculpt that joint. Then you have a perfect fit of body tube to body tube.

Further more... if you mark the tube before you cut it, where you are cutting it,on both sides of the cut,[I just draw a line & cut through it] then you have a perfect fit when done. Just align your key mark.

Thanks CJ. Good tips. I will do that. CTI nosecone 3.4 oz. Classic FW FG cone 9.1 oz and much longer in terms of exposed length, although it is a VK. If I want to glue in a kevlar harness, would braided 1 /4 inch be sufficient or should I use 1 /4 inch tubular? This is a 54 mm minimum diameter build.
 
Your reasoning is exactly mine when i did the original SpaceCowboy......

Here are some build pics....yes I wanted the lighter cone... 1/2 the weight! Back then I used the molded version, only choice I had.

You can clearly see all the cut marks etc. When done , the joints were all as perfect as one could get. You could close your eyes and not find the new joint on NC. Harness choice should be fine. I did put a very thin slice of cardboard airframe tube 1/4in over the harness, so I could fillet it.....just to be sure. That's where my tracker was. placed in-between the loop, then both sides of loop taped to tracker box and antenna went up into cone. Tracker basically upside down...LOl

I polished the airframe by wet sanding with 400 and left it as seen. Good luck with your project and have fun!

Edit: almost forgot.... when sanding the filler on joint from NC to band, either protect the rear edge or put it in payload the keep from losing that sharp clean break-joint connection. I put the NC into payload ...so when sanding the filler, I was killing 2 birds with one stone.

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Your reasoning is exactly mine when i did the original SpaceCowboy......

Here are some build pics....yes I wanted the lighter cone... 1/2 the weight! Back then I used the molded version, only choice I had.

You can clearly see all the cut marks etc. When done , the joints were all as perfect as one could get. You could close your eyes and not find the new joint on NC. Harness choice should be fine. I did put a very thin slice of cardboard airframe tube 1/4in over the harness, so I could fillet it.....just to be sure. That's where my tracker was. placed in-between the loop, then both sides of loop taped to tracker box and antenna went up into cone. Tracker basically upside down...LOl

I polished the airframe by wet sanding with 400 and left it as seen. Good luck with your project and have fun!

Edit: almost forgot.... when sanding the filler on joint from NC to band, either protect the rear edge or put it in payload the keep from losing that sharp clean break-joint connection. I put the NC into payload ...so when sanding the filler, I was killing 2 birds with one stone.

Thanks CJ. Good stuff. I remember a lot of this from reading it before. I am re-rereading your Space Cowboy build threads. I am rebuilding the SC, without the SC fins of course, but I expect the rocket to do pretty well for me. I am simplifying a number of things from my previous build, and cutting out weight here and there. Should be fun. Thanks for the tips.
 
Folks, I tried to search and find these CTI Nose cones. Can anyone point to a thread on them or let me know where someone sells them?
On another CTI note, can anyone point to a thread or information on the differences between the old style and the new style CTI 75mm motors?
 
The nosecones are injection molded poly carbonate . Small sizes have shoulder molded on [38&54mm] larger sizes [75mm & 98mm]
have an interior lip and utilize a coupler for the shoulder. They also come with a phenolic tip instead of metal [it is threaded for 1/4 in like all the metal tips] Same phenolic that nozzles are made from, so they are high heat resistant & eliminate any problems the metal ones incur at some fields. This allows you to use them for DD out of the cone. see here:
https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...t-special-build!-amp-new-NSL-prototypes-added!

Shows first kit and how to use them. Here is where you get them:https://www.wildmanrocketry.com/ShowProducts.aspx?Class=1065
They are infused with fiberglass fibers when molded to add strength.

The new hardware differs:

No longer an exterior thrust ring on the case. Now the motor can be used as coupler in 2-stage scenario.
The rear closure doubles as thrust ring....like an Aero-Tech does. It's thick enough[exterior] to act as a stop against the airframe.

Forward closure or retaining ring [actually holds closer inside] remains the same. By using a second retaining ring on the rear, now the motor exterior is smooth and can be used as coupler mentioned above.

Thread size is thinner/smaller than before [more threads per inch] by doing this the case is stronger...less meat is removed.

There are tailcones available as before.
 
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Thank you for the detailed reply, CJ.
I read the Punisher thread but didn't connect that it was a CTI nose cone. Great stuff.
That phenolic nose tip is a great idea.
It looks like I need to order the new style 75mm hardware too.
Thanks again!

Len Bryan
 
I read the Punisher thread but didn't connect that it was a CTI nose cone.

Len Bryan

Generally not called CTI cones. Rocketry Warehouse used to sell, at least 38 and 54 mm, but I don't see them anymore. Maybe Wildman is the exclusive seller? Not sure. Real light though. 38 and 54 mm don't have the phenolic tips.
 
For the 3 and 4 inch size cones, that is correct to the best of my knowledge.

Are the 2.6" nosecones WM sold with the Patriot last sale n like the 54 and 38mm with molded shoulder or like the 3 inch nosecones that are 2 pieces?

Have been interested in a non pml/loc nose for an 'almost' min diameter project like the WM Patriot with 54mm MMT.

Kenny
 
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Are the 2.6" nosecones WM sold with the Patriot last sale n like the 54 and 38mm with molded shoulder or like the 3 inch nosecones that are 2 pieces?

Have been interested in a non pml/loc nose for an 'almost' min diameter project like the WM Patriot with 54mm MMT.

Kenny

Kenny

The 2.6 cones are like the 38-54's....shoulder is molded on.
 
So, is there any info regarding when the larger size cones (2.6, 75, 98) are going to be available "a la carte"? How about pricing?

Interesting that these are going to be a Wildman exclusive - the smaller sizes HAVE been available from other sources previously. Are they therefore going to be branded as "Wildman" nose cones? If not, will they get any branding? (it's kind of weird to keep referring to them as "those black ones (sometimes clear) that I think CTI makes that fit thinwall tubes and come in some kits and are made of polycarbonate". A name would be nice.

Either way, these are really nice cones. I have a few already (came in Wildman and MadCow kits) and I'm sure I'll be getting more.

s6
 
Well.....

Obviously the 3's are in, they are being kitted up. I think they are being used as fast as WM gets them for the BSS kits. A call would let you know if you can buy them individually now.

4's won't be available till Feb. So until everything is caught up, Mr WM has been too busy filling orders to play with the website. Eventually all of them will magically appear on site. He's been working weekends and late into the night so everyone can put on a happy face.
 
So, is there any info regarding when the larger size cones (2.6, 75, 98) are going to be available "a la carte"?

There are currently three cones (38, 54 and 2.6). Nose cones can be cut to make (long) tail cones. These have been used in some kits as well. There is also a short tapered 2.6" tail cone (Arcas style). Cones and tail cones are made out of glass filled high-temperature polycarbonate. Clear (unfilled) cones are available as well. Every CTI dealer can order these cones from us. We also make some other cones that are exclusive.

Jeroen
 
Thanks Jeroen for the explanation. I'm calling them "CTI nosecones" from now on.
I also did not realize that the clear ones were NOT glass-filled, but I was wondering about that - now it makes sense.

I've been flying three of the 38mm/54mm cones for a bit now, and they are really nice.

and........

I JUST got my 3" Punisher kit today! This has the 3" (or 75mm) version of this cone, with the phenolic tip, and extended length using a coupler for a shoulder, enabling "Head End Dual Deploy" (exclusively from Wildman if I understand Jim/Jeroen correctly). The cone looks great, I really like the phenolic tip - a lot better than the aluminum ones in fact. The shoulder on the tip makes it line up with zero hassle (very much unlike most of the aluminum ones I've seen/had). However, I was surprised by the coupler fit - it is VERY tight. Like, tight enough that I don't dare try to push it all the way in for fear of it being permanent stuck. No way this can be used in a dual deploy setup as is. I will of course have to do a fair bit of machining/sanding to get the fit better. Not a huge big deal, and not something I haven't had to do with other couplers or nose-cone shoulders in the past, but with all the hype about the new tubing I was expecting a butter-smooth fit out of the box. Again, not complaining/bitching - just a (surprised) observation. This kit is still WAY sweet, and I'd buy another one with no hesitation. It should also be noted that the coupler to airframe fit IS perfect.

s6
 
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