getting started with hybrids

Hi,

I have been launching Estes rockets for a few years and want to move onto hybrids. I really like to build my own, so could someone tell me of a hybrid kit that is not too expensive?

Thank you!

Hyperloc 300 made is not a bad first choice. Biggest thing is the length of the motor tube.

Before you make the jump to hybrids, think about
1. Do you have a good source for motors & reloads
2. Do you own or are willing to buy the ground support equipment (not many clubs have it, but some club's launch controllers support it)
3. They are much more complicated then standard AP motors.
I'm not saying to not do it, as when you see one they're cool!

tsholcomb,

Where are you located, and what is your cert level?

Thanks,
Gerald

PS - Welcome to rocketry forum!

Welcome. Moving from Estes to Hybrids is a big step.

Before "starting" with Hybrids you will have to start (or start at the same time) with electronic recovery deployment. There is no Hybrid motor ejection.

Some but manageable complexity involved. You will develop competency in electronic bays, mounting, venting, ejection charge sizing, altimeter programming and all that.

Then for Hybrid motors you will need to learn motor assembly (not that much more complicated than AP) and GSE (tank filling and venting).

Unless you have electronic deployment under your belt I would start first with solid and develop that skill. Then add the Hybrid motor.

Start out with a simple but short 4" kit from LOC, simple to construct, light weight, you can 1st certify level one with a small "H" motor.
Then with the same rocket, add a much longer payload section and certify Level 2 with a small "J" motor.
You can try the Level 2 with or without dual deploy, understand the motor ejection one will certainly drift a ways on the main chute.

Once you get proficient with dual deployment and electronics, then I can show you an easier, less expensive path to hybrids, Contrail Hybrids.

Thanks guys! Sorry for responding late.
Gerald; I'm located in north Georgia about 30 min from ATL. I don't know what cert level means.
jderimig; How do I learn electronic recovery deployment. Do I get bigger Estes' (or other brand) kits? Do bigger kits include all the equipment I would need to learn it?
Dave A; I only saw rockets that mesured different diameters. Which one is the one you are talking about?

Again, thank you guys for your input and helping me get started!

Welcome tsholcomb. Can I ask a simple question ? (Please don't be offended) What do you mean by hybrid ? Hybrid motors are a combination of solid fuel propellant and a separate oxidizer. The oxidizer is a gas (usually nitrous oxide) and the fuel can be almost anything which burns well (PVC is common). Hybrids are more complex than solids because the gaseous oxidizer needs to be pumped into the motor on the pad, requiring a complex launching system.

Maybe you mean composite motors, ammonium perchlorate composite propellant (AP or APCP) ? The vast majority of high power rockets use this now.

tsholcomb said:

Thanks guys! Sorry for responding late.
Gerald; I'm located in north Georgia about 30 min from ATL. I don't know what cert level means.
jderimig; How do I learn electronic recovery deployment. Do I get bigger Estes' (or other brand) kits? Do bigger kits include all the equipment I would need to learn it?
Dave A; I only saw rockets that mesured different diameters. Which one is the one you are talking about?

Again, thank you guys for your input and helping me get started!

Click to expand...

You might want to consider meeting up with SoAR (Southern Area Rocketry). I think they meet most often in Roswell. A lot of the folks in SoAR are pretty well versed in high power rocketry, which should probably be step 1 for you. (Technically, all hybrids are HPR, so I guess that's true anyways.)

About certification level -

There are two main hobby rocketry organizations in the US. These are NAR - the National Association of Rocketry, and TRA - the Tripoli Rocketry Association. Both organizations fly commercial motors. TRA also allows flying research motors, which are motors which one makes oneself, provided the person has reached level 2, or L2, certification.

The certification process is very similar for both organizations and has the same goal and levels. That goal is to make sure the person flying the rocket has the knowledge and experience required to make the project have good odds of success.

There are three levels to the certification sequence, L1, L2, and L3. Once a person has passed the certification then one is allowed to fly projects at that level. That is, at an appropriate field with FAA waiver. High power rocket flights require a waiver from the FAA. The clubs take care of that generally.

L1 certification is to demonstrate construction and flying of a rocket using a level 1 motor. These motors are ones in the H and I total impulse range. One can think of this as like an oversized, overbuilt, Estes type rocket. It just has to be witnessed to launch successfully, fly in a stable fashion, deploy recovery, and land safely and intact.

L2 certification requires a written test and the demonstration of construction and flying of a rocket using a level 2 motor. These motors are ones in the J, K, and L total impulse range. Once a person is L2 certified one can also fly research motors L and lower, and hybrids L and lower.

L3 certification requires demonstration of construction and flying of a rocket using a level 3 motor. These motors are ones in the M total impuse range and greater. For instance I am L3 certified and have flown up through research O motors.

Like Estes A, B, C, D, where each motor is roughly double the total impulse of the one below it... This continues quite a ways.

As the total impuse of the motor goes up, and the weight and/or speed of the rocket goes up, they become potentially much more dangerous. The certification process, overseen by mentors (a committee with experience), is to assure that things don't become unnecessarily dangerous. We want to protect the hobby and this is a good part of how we do it.

Gerald

Thanks!

I think I will try and visit the SoAR program and see what I can learn from there. I live 45 min away form Roswell so it won't be bad of drive. Also I will ask them their opinion on how to get started since they will probably have a general idea of what types of rockets I can launch in GA, and help me in general.

Again, thank you for the information and now I know in which direction I should head from here.

jk...it's actually Alpharetta, so basically right across the street. I'm guessing you've found this, but in case you haven't, they're meeting on February 12.

Going straight from Estes rockets to hybrids is generally not a common "jump" that rocketeers would make...
Hybrids are VERY complex are require much time and effort.

some good reading about high powered rockets is Modern High Powered Rocketry 2 It's on Amazon. It will answer most of your questions about motors, rockets and electronics.