SHOULD HAVE BEEN AN AWESOME LAUNCH- BUT

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crazyed

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Sorry****lost most personal pics to this thread*******(LOC 4-29SS "shorty")Yes, I can only say if something doesnt go wrong on occasion then we arent learning .. We gotta keep learning in this hobby. But dog gone the littlest things can ruin your day and or rocket.
So today myself, my son and son inlaw went out to fly the newly built MIRAGE . Went great.
We also had the LOC PRECISION 4-29SS. We have had many successful flights with this cluster build. Today it was time for 4 ESTES F15 motors. I used sonic starters and secured the starters so they would ride a bit for sure ignition of all 4 motors.
I wrapped the leads so well the clips didnt separate off the wires at take-off. I twisted those things not remembering to secure the leads so they would stay where they should- on the ground. I should not have wrapped those wires around the clips.
Yes you can all blast me for it. I wasnt thinking. Excited -whatever. Time to make up a safety check list I guess according to my son( I blame him lol..) It did a 360 and then did a rocket sled across the ground for about 200ft.Crunched the forward airframe and tore off a fin. will fly again for $10
Here are some pics. yes we do sometimes use the "shade tree rocket launch technique" (wires-launch rod and a car battery) when its just us.
I guess the idea of this thread might be_we can all learn from each others mistakes- Please post yours if you think someone can take a lesson from it
With mine you can clearly see the wires attached to the rocket as they pull it off coarse and the result. we had all 4 motors burning and it should have been a perfect flight. if you click on the picks you will see the F15's burning-all 4. I now have a shorter 4-29- by the way-yes the weather eas perfect-72degrees here in central AZ today (Had to put that in there)

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What were the clips hung up on? If all 4 motors lit, the starters should have all spit out by the time it left the rod. It's common practice in HPR to wrap the exposed part of the igniter wire around the clips for better electrical contact.

[Edit] Wait, in the 2nd pic, are the starters are taped to the outside motor tube? If so, that would be the problem. You *want* the starters to spit out when the motor starts.
 
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The picture tells the story. The rocket was on a leash (the ignition wire). Glad to hear it can and will be repaired.
 
Whoops!! It's all good, live and learn. At least you had sound clustering techniques in mind!

With BP clusters I don't typically secure the igniters like I do with AP. They are more or less instant-on once the fire hits them. Regarding wrapping the leads around the clips, yes, it is common practice to do this for better electrical contact. However, for clusters, I recommend sanding your clips clean (to ensure solid contact), clipping them securely to the leads (also to ensure good contact), but I don't wrap the leads around the clips, specifically to avoid the above situation:wink:

But hey, you had fun, right? Good lookin' 4-29 too. Short or long!!
 
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What were the clips hung up on? If all 4 motors lit, the starters should have all spit out by the time it left the rod. It's common practice in HPR to wrap the exposed part of the igniter wire around the clips for better electrical contact.

[Edit] Wait, in the 2nd pic, are the starters are taped to the outside motor tube? If so, that would be the problem. You *want* the starters to spit out when the motor starts.
Yes. But when Im firing clusters- I secure the igniters to the motors so they ride along to help insure lighting, in case one ore more igniters dont get pulled out before they do their job .
 
The picture tells the story. The rocket was on a leash (the ignition wire). Glad to hear it can and will be repaired.
Oh yea...that pic sure tells it all. Even though the rocket will fly again and it was sort of cool how it did that 360 and then rocket sled across the ground. Its always best when it all goes right. I still have a "bummer feeling" about it. When you know what to do and dont do it, and something goes wrong feeling,, know what I mean?
 
Whoops!! It's all good, live and learn. At least you had sound clustering techniques in mind!

With BP clusters I don't typically secure the igniters like I do with AP. They are more or less instant-on once the fire hits them. Regarding wrapping the leads around the clips, yes, it is common practice to do this for better electrical contact. However, for clusters, I recommend sanding your clips clean (to ensure solid contact), clipping them securely to the leads (also to ensure good contact), but I don't wrap the leads around the clips, specifically to avoid the above situation:wink:

But hey, you had fun, right? Good lookin' 4-29 too. Short or long!!

Yes.. we certainly had fun.. And I saw how fast those BP motors fired. So yes ,,live and learn. It sure was cool to see all 4 of those F15 motors thrusting just inches up on the rod. I wonder how stable the rocket would be now with 16" of the top airframe. Feels like 2 F15's might get it now.
 
Those Estes motors are pretty cool. I was surprised at the smoke and fire and noise they produce. And can be gotten at the Hobby Lobby for 40% off everyday.
Except when sold out of coarse. Pretty nice Mid_Power motor. Im going to cluster more of em.
 
I'm ready to do 7 in my Ultimate when I have the time...which hasn't come in a while:(
 
That sure got a big smile and chuckle. I hope you get the time soon. 7? right on.!!! & 7 what may I ask? I can only imagine. F15's ,, OMG not 7 G's?
 
Yes. But when Im firing clusters- I secure the igniters to the motors so they ride along to help insure lighting, in case one ore more igniters dont get pulled out before they do their job .

And that technique worked for you in the past ? I've flown a BP cluster or two (but not the 29mm yet) and I've had a reluctant motor light 1/2 or 3/4ths the way up the rod. The plastic igniter plug and three or four wraps of the exposed wire around the clips is all I used to keep everthing in place 'till ignition
 
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That sure got a big smile and chuckle. I hope you get the time soon. 7? right on.!!! & 7 what may I ask? I can only imagine. F15's ,, OMG not 7 G's?

Oh yeah, I meant 7 F15's...or 6 with an AP G or H in the middle. But I'll do 6 G's for sure. Wanna do 6 G77Rs for a real ignition challenge. I've done 2 H's, 3 G's and 2 F's, airstarted in succession, all in one flight. An H135W and 6 D12s was particularly fun too...see below. It was particularly exciting (and a little scary) when the H lit about 50' up!! But it was a sweet effect..and I can thank securing the igniter for that!! Couldn't augment the top grain as it was a SU motor.... Hence delayed ignition.

rocc113013 013.jpgrocc113013 022.jpg
 
And that technique worked for you in the past ? I've flown a BP cluster or two (but not the 29mm yet) and I've had a reluctant motor light 1/2 or 3/4ths the way up the rod. The plastic igniter plug and three or four wraps of the exposed wire around the clips is all I used to keep everthing in place 'till ignition

Many AP clusters but only 1 other BP cluster. I wrapped the igniter leads around the clips to tight. I dont know what I was thinking, guess I wasnt lol. I didnt even have them secured at the bottom of the rod so the wires could be ripped away as the rocket went up. The Mirage had a great flight though.View attachment 251013 but not too good of pic
 
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Oh yeah, I meant 7 F15's...or 6 with an AP G or H in the middle. But I'll do 6 G's for sure. Wanna do 6 G77Rs for a real ignition challenge. I've done 2 H's, 3 G's and 2 F's, airstarted in succession, all in one flight. An H135W and 6 D12s was particularly fun too...see below. It was particularly exciting (and a little scary) when the H lit about 50' up!! But it was a sweet effect..and I can thank securing the igniter for that!! Couldn't augment the top grain as it was a SU motor.... Hence delayed ignition.

View attachment 250994View attachment 250995

Nice job. The business end looks powerful.
6 finned Ultimate right? 4" Dia.? 1-29mm and 6-24mm ?
 
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Many AP clusters but only 1 other BP cluster. I wrapped the igniter leads around the clips to tight. I dont know what I was thinking, guess I wasnt lol. I didnt even have them secured at the bottom of the rod so the wires could be ripped away as the rocket went up.

I'm sorry Ed but I'm still unclear. If all motors lit then why didn't the clips just fall away with spent igniters. Again, sorry for being so dense tonight. :eek:
 
I think he also attached his igniters to the motors or retention in addition to wrapping the leads around the clips.

Crazed--it's 7x29mm, used adapters on that flight. It's the 4-29's older cousin...I don't think LOC currently has it in production.
 
I'm sorry Ed but I'm still unclear. If all motors lit then why didn't the clips just fall away with spent igniters. Again, sorry for being so dense tonight. :eek:
Not a problem, I love talking rockets... I had the igniters tapped to the motors so they could ride along in case i had 1 or more slow starts.( which is what I do with the AP motors) I used the sonic psII long wire igniters. And i wrapped the wires around the(alligator /another mistake) clips too tight. i didnt know how fast and sure the BP motors lit. But I know know.lol
 
I think he also attached his igniters to the motors or retention in addition to wrapping the leads around the clips.

Crazed--it's 7x29mm, used adapters on that flight. It's the 4-29's older cousin...I don't think LOC currently has it in production.

7 29mm lol Dog gone!!!~. That is outa sight. That has to be one tough built rocket.
 
Not a problem, I love talking rockets... I had the igniters tapped to the motors so they could ride along in case i had 1 or more slow starts.( which is what I do with the AP motors) I used the sonic psII long wire igniters. And i wrapped the wires around the(alligator /another mistake) clips too tight. i didnt know how fast and sure the BP motors lit. But I know know.lol

I think I got now, thanks.
 
That sure got a big smile and chuckle. I hope you get the time soon. 7? right on.!!! & 7 what may I ask? I can only imagine. F15's ,, OMG not 7 G's?

Of course 7G's in an Ultimate!
20130430_202423_zpsded00865.jpg


Maybe next time will have some H's! Barry discontinued the Ultimate (and some other cluster rockets) since most people just use a bigger single motor now rather than cluster. Back in its day, this was the only way to get that much impulse!
-Ken
 
Yeah baby! But clusters are just so much fun...and challenging! This is white Ultimate you did on (7) G80Ts and lit with First Fires, right?
 
Of course 7G's in an Ultimate!
20130430_202423_zpsded00865.jpg


Maybe next time will have some H's! Barry discontinued the Ultimate (and some other cluster rockets) since most people just use a bigger single motor now rather than cluster. Back in its day, this was the only way to get that much impulse!
-Ken

That is AWESOME dude...!!!!
 
Yeah baby! But clusters are just so much fun...and challenging! This is white Ultimate you did on (7) G80Ts and lit with First Fires, right?

Seriously you two. Those Ultimates are Over the Top. Gotta be exciting when you launch em.:cool:
 
There is very definite art to successful clustering. The balance between too tight and too loose, the igniter selection or manufacture and getting enough current to them is a challenge. I would love to attend a launch where Boris fly's one of his masterpieces and be able to watch him do all the prep work for it.

https://www.bpasa.com/
 
That description on the LOC site is a little hazy... Stovi can be set up for 7x24mm or 1x29mm. IIRC, if you go single 29 I think you have to cut back the inside of the outer tubes so the center 29 fits. Who would want to do that?!?
 
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