Mid power kit reccomendation

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Construct_VA

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Hello all. I would like to eventually transition into high power, L1 certification. I was wondering if there are any recommended mid power kits that I can construct and fly that will prepare me for the high power/L1 category.

Thank you for the input.
 
It really depends on whether you want fiberglass or cardboard rockets. LOC has a lot of good kits, look at their 2.2 and 3" options maybe if you like building cardboard rockets. For fiberglass, consider a wildman jr series kit or wildman sport.
 
Way too many options to list.

Virtually anything below 4”dia. by LOC Precision will fly on “F”s and “G”s but can easily handle “H”s or even “I”s.
They are “Paper and wood” so you can assemble them with yellow wood glue and never have to worry about them coming apart as the joints will be stronger than the components.
 
Thank you both. I will look into LOC today. I am mainly looking for a kit that will allow me to prepare myself for the skills and techniques required for L1.
 
Another option is to go with Estes PSII kits or Aerotech kits designed for medium power. With minor mods, listed all over the forum, these kits are often flown for certification flights and for normal flying with 29mm H motors.

You just missed a heck of a sale on the Estes PSII kits. Still a decent deal for a bundle of four mid power kits for $108.00, but until Jan 1, the four kits were just 80 bucks.
 
Madcow also has a nice assortment of kits. I will mention/caution that aside from the Estes kits, a fair number of instruction sets assume that you already know the techniques involved(they tell you what needs to be done, not how to do it).
Rex
 
Are you looking for kits that you intend to build and fly as mid power as a stepping stone to L1? Or are you looking for a rocket to use as your L1 cert rocket, but can also be flown on mid power before the cert flight? There's not a huge difference --- it's mostly a matter of the ideal motor class range. I usually think of rockets as having an ideal range of about 2 motor classes. Outside of that ideal range, you might be able to fly a smaller motor for a marginal flight, or a bigger motor for a riskier fast and high flight.

If you have not flown any MPR yet, then you could try any of the Estes PSII builder kits. Most of them have an ideal motor class range of F to G motors. You could build and fly these as MPR rockets and gain some experience with composite motors and MPR materials and building techniques. If you wanted to, you could even do your L1 cert flight using one of these rockets, but an H motor would mean a very fast and high flight.

I'm building a rocket right now that I think is going to be perfect for the G to H range of motors. It's an Aerotech G-Force, and the kit was originally designed to be flown on single-use G motors, so it's perfect for that. I left out the motor block and cooling mesh, so it will have room for H motors. And I think that the rocket is large enough that using H motors will not result in an unreasonably fast or high flight. Sometimes peopl fly them on I's. This might be a good transitional rocket for you if you mostly want to fly G motors during the time you are practicing for L1, but it's probably a bit big for F motors.

Moving up the scale, you can find rockets designed for L1 motors in the H-I range that could be flown marginally on G motors. I don't have as much experience with those rockets, so I don't have any specific kits to recommend. Until you have your cert, you would have to be careful in this range. If the rocket weighs over 1500 grams at launch, it's HPR and requires certification, even if flown on a G motor.

Maybe if you can narrow down the primary use of the rocket and the range of motors you will mostly fly, then people can give you more recommendations. Also what kind of flights do you prefer? Fast and high? Or low and slow?
 
Are you looking for kits that you intend to build and fly as mid power as a stepping stone to L1? Or are you looking for a rocket to use as your L1 cert rocket, but can also be flown on mid power before the cert flight? There's not a huge difference --- it's mostly a matter of the ideal motor class range. I usually think of rockets as having an ideal range of about 2 motor classes. Outside of that ideal range, you might be able to fly a smaller motor for a marginal flight, or a bigger motor for a riskier fast and high flight.

If you have not flown any MPR yet, then you could try any of the Estes PSII builder kits. Most of them have an ideal motor class range of F to G motors. You could build and fly these as MPR rockets and gain some experience with composite motors and MPR materials and building techniques. If you wanted to, you could even do your L1 cert flight using one of these rockets, but an H motor would mean a very fast and high flight.

I'm building a rocket right now that I think is going to be perfect for the G to H range of motors. It's an Aerotech G-Force, and the kit was originally designed to be flown on single-use G motors, so it's perfect for that. I left out the motor block and cooling mesh, so it will have room for H motors. And I think that the rocket is large enough that using H motors will not result in an unreasonably fast or high flight. Sometimes peopl fly them on I's. This might be a good transitional rocket for you if you mostly want to fly G motors during the time you are practicing for L1, but it's probably a bit big for F motors.

Moving up the scale, you can find rockets designed for L1 motors in the H-I range that could be flown marginally on G motors. I don't have as much experience with those rockets, so I don't have any specific kits to recommend. Until you have your cert, you would have to be careful in this range. If the rocket weighs over 1500 grams at launch, it's HPR and requires certification, even if flown on a G motor.

Maybe if you can narrow down the primary use of the rocket and the range of motors you will mostly fly, then people can give you more recommendations. Also what kind of flights do you prefer? Fast and high? Or low and slow?

Thank you for the great information! There is obviously more to consider than I originally thought. I like the idea of having a dual purpose rocket that I can fly and get used to as mid power and also advance with it into L1. At this point, I'm not particular to the fast and high or low and slow. I like both. Looks like I have some more searching and learning to do.

Thanks again!
 
Go LOC. It is made of cardboard and will fly higher than the same size fiberglass.
 
Not an expert here, but I'm transitioning into MPR myself, and I've picked up the Estes PSII's and the Quest Big Dog. I haven't built these yet, but I like the looks of what I'm about to do, because the builds seem similar to LPR rockets, but with a few modifications - stronger materials, etc. They seem like nice transition rockets to me.
 
I have a few kits that are L1 capable, but also great mid power flyers. I got my L1 on a PML Small Endeavour. This kit LOVES G loads, and is perfect for H loads as well (got my L1 on an H165R in this kit). Next would be the LOC Norad Pro Maxx - same motors as the Small Endeavour. Basically, look for things in the 2.5" - 3" range that are fairly tall, and you'll be able to fly them all day on G (or even high thrusting F) loads, and they will handle any H you can throw at it as well. Kinda comes down to what you like, really.
 
As far as pure MPR flyers, though...the choices are almost endless. The Estes PSII series is awesome, and there are ALOT of choices from LOC/Precision, and PML. I LOVE my PML 2" AMRAAM...GREAT kit, and very easy to build...and has neck snapping flights on the G77 and G79 loads, while performing very well on F40s as well. PML Tiny Pterodactyl is another great MPR flyer that has very different looks from what you'd expect.
 
Not an expert here, but I'm transitioning into MPR myself, and I've picked up the Estes PSII's and the Quest Big Dog. I haven't built these yet, but I like the looks of what I'm about to do, because the builds seem similar to LPR rockets, but with a few modifications - stronger materials, etc. They seem like nice transition rockets to me.

The Estes PSII kits are great rockets.

The Estes PSII Leviathan was my first true mid power rocket, and I felt like I had really moved into a whole new level of rocketry at that point. Heavier tubes, plywood fins and centering rings, TTW construction, nylon chute, screw-on retainer. I added some Kevlar, quick links, and heavy duty swivel.

The great thing is that the rockets are a more robust construction because of beefier materials and construction, but they aren't any harder to build than most LPR. The parts are larger and easier to handle, and they are stronger too, so there is little chance of breaking something accidentally. You can put them together with wood glue for the most part, so you don't have to get into epoxy, except for the retainer, unless you want to.

The prices of the kits are very affordable. They fly great on affordable EconoJet single-use F motors, so you don't have to invest in hardware to have affordable motors. They are a great introduction to MPR.
 
As you can see, you can get a variety of opinions on this topic.

As somebody returning to rocketry, what I have been struck by is the wide variety of materials used by different manufacturer's, and the need to use glues other than white/wood glue. You may want to ask yourself what you are willing to try out and to work with. I'm assuming you have probably been "born & raised on Estes kits..." (but I may be mistaken).

As mentioned above, the Estes PS II kits are mid-powered, and with some modifications, can be used then for L1 certification. You may or may not want to branch out to other companies, to try out their (slightly different) construction techniques.

I've picked up a couple of Quest kits (the Big Dog was one) that just uses white or wood glue, balsa, and paper tubes. They have nice instructions for looping the kevlar thread around the motor mount (I was surprised the Estes PS II kits just had scaled up rubber bands and the ol' fold over cardboard to attach the shock cord to the body tube)...the Aerotech kits all require the use of CA glue to complete, as you are attaching paper to plastic in many places...they have a unique system of joining the fins through the wall (TTW) to the motor mount; it seems pretty heavy duty (and, no sanding required for the fins!). I haven't yet picked up any LOC kits, but have been looking at the Aura...(that means I'll probably get it within the month...sigh, I wish I had some self-control!).

I'm looking to eventually try out some fiberglass kits, but there are techniques involved with fiberglass that I'm going to wait a little while to begin learning...

Bottom line, there isn't any one kit or manufacturer that you should "definitely go with." Take a look around and see what others are building, ask here (or at a club) and don't be afraid to try something new out.
 
Hello all. I would like to eventually transition into high power, L1 certification. I was wondering if there are any recommended mid power kits that I can construct and fly that will prepare me for the high power/L1 category.

Thank you for the input.
The LOC Graduator. Flies on D-E-F-G and H180's !!!:)
Im partial to that one cause I used it for L1 cert--no problem.
 
As you can see, you can get a variety of opinions on this topic.

As somebody returning to rocketry, what I have been struck by is the wide variety of materials used by different manufacturer's, and the need to use glues other than white/wood glue. You may want to ask yourself what you are willing to try out and to work with. I'm assuming you have probably been "born & raised on Estes kits..." (but I may be mistaken).

As mentioned above, the Estes PS II kits are mid-powered, and with some modifications, can be used then for L1 certification. You may or may not want to branch out to other companies, to try out their (slightly different) construction techniques.

I've picked up a couple of Quest kits (the Big Dog was one) that just uses white or wood glue, balsa, and paper tubes. They have nice instructions for looping the kevlar thread around the motor mount (I was surprised the Estes PS II kits just had scaled up rubber bands and the ol' fold over cardboard to attach the shock cord to the body tube)...the Aerotech kits all require the use of CA glue to complete, as you are attaching paper to plastic in many places...they have a unique system of joining the fins through the wall (TTW) to the motor mount; it seems pretty heavy duty (and, no sanding required for the fins!). I haven't yet picked up any LOC kits, but have been looking at the Aura...(that means I'll probably get it within the month...sigh, I wish I had some self-control!).

I'm looking to eventually try out some fiberglass kits, but there are techniques involved with fiberglass that I'm going to wait a little while to begin learning...

Bottom line, there isn't any one kit or manufacturer that you should "definitely go with." Take a look around and see what others are building, ask here (or at a club) and don't be afraid to try something new out.

You and I seem to have similar taste in rockets. I think the Big Dog is going to be my next build. I just have to decide if I want to transition into rail buttons and stuff, and if so, where am I gonna get myself a rail launcher - build it myself, or join a club an hour and a half away. And do I want to go with those mini buttons, or the standard 10-10's. Lotta issues to consider, lotta stuff to read up on. But I like the planning phase.

But I like the looks of the rocket - a bit like an upscale Cosmic Explorer, which I love, because it flies so straight.
 
Hello all. I would like to eventually transition into high power, L1 certification. I was wondering if there are any recommended mid power kits that I can construct and fly that will prepare me for the high power/L1 category.

My answer would be any of them. I recently got back into rocketry after a 30 year hiatus, and was surprised by all of the new impulse classes, construction techniques and technology that did not exist, or that I was not aware of 30 years ago.

Since I have been back, my first mid-power was an Aerotech Arreaux. Very different construction than the Estes kits I have built, but still easily built by simply carefully following the directions. I have also built an Estes Ventris, and am currently working on a LOC Athena. All 3 cardboard type rockets, but with different construction methods. I built each one stock to learn what knowledge that vendor had to offer. People on the forum will try to tell you to get kit 'X' but use modification 'Y'. Read the forum and see what your options are, but don't be afraid to build your first couple of kits stock to get a feeling for how different build methods perform. I currently have an Estes Partizon in the build pile, which I plan to heavily modify from what I have learned, and I have the parts to modify the Arreaux to make it dual deploy.

I plan on being in this hobby a long time (Good Lord willing), and building a lot of rockets, so I have no desire to try to make the perfect mid power or high power rocket right out of the gate. Each rocket teaches us something. Sometimes it is something we want to use next time. Sometimes it is something we want to make sure we never, ever want to do again. And sometimes it is just a healthy dose of respect for these new, larger impulse classes.

Eventually I will get into fiberglass, larger rockets, and scratch builds, but for right now I am just building the kits that catch my eye, learning things along the way, and having the time of my life.

Hope you enjoy your journey as much as I am enjoying mine. Wishing you blue skies and straight smoke!
 
Thank you to everyone who took the time to respond. I have been looking into all of the options suggested. As stated, they each have something different to offer in terms of construction and capability. Now I just need to pick one!
 
Hey Construct_VA,
I see you are in Richmond, The club I fly with , Tripoli 25 flies in Culpeper which is not too far away from you, our next launch is next Saturday. We have quite a few people who fly Midpower, you can see many of the rockets mentioned here in person. I will probably have my Estes Leviathan if you want to see it.
 
Hey Construct_VA,
I see you are in Richmond, The club I fly with , Tripoli 25 flies in Culpeper which is not too far away from you, our next launch is next Saturday. We have quite a few people who fly Midpower, you can see many of the rockets mentioned here in person. I will probably have my Estes Leviathan if you want to see it.

I looked up the site information on the Tripoli website. According to my phone, it is a 1.5 hour drive. Not too bad. I hope I can make it up there.
 
I looked up the site information on the Tripoli website. According to my phone, it is a 1.5 hour drive. Not too bad. I hope I can make it up there.

Yep, That is how far I drive from Northern VA. well worth the trip.
 
Even if you just come out to watch, bring all your rockets, you'll probably want to fly something at some point. WildmanVA (Kevin Dunn) is the vendor that usually shows up at the BattlePark launches. I don't know if he plans to be there Jan 10 & 11, but he doesn't miss many. He brings a great assortment of 18mm - 38mm motors. He has a lot of 54mm, but only CTI.

The HPR pads are great, but the MPR/LPR pads are usually busy too.

Look us up when you get there.
 
As of a couple days ago, Kevin is planning on attending Saturday with Sunday as a rain date. Knock on wood, the long term forecast is looking good for Saturday. No precip, light winds but chilly with temps in the upper 30's. Drop by and say hi if you come up on Saturday. I'll be the one with the black trailer but we have three Mike's when my buddy and I come up so ask for Chilli.

What Handeman said. Bring some rockets. Pads are set up and you have a nice open area to launch. Take advantage of it!!

and..... to get the thread back on track. Aerotech makes some nice mid power kits that are well thought out. I have an ARCAS. My other mid power is an Estes Leviathan.
 
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I have a PML Callisto I built in 2003 and still fly. It's great on windy days with the F52T and G64W Hobbyline motors. I also had the 29mm Binder Design Thug. It's a good MPR for small fields. About 400 ft on an F52T and 800 ft on the G64W.
 
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