Regulated Igniters

cobra1336 · Jan 1, 2015

Not trying to open a can of worms here but is there any way to find out what igniters (if any) are regulated? I have some Big uns and Lil uns ones I puchased a couple of years ago but not sure where they fall.

tightwad · Jan 1, 2015

Need more information on what the ignitors (we call them starters, now) were intended for, ie; motors or rockets.

cwbullet · Jan 1, 2015

Igniters may or may not be regulated. It depends on what you are referring. Many can be shipped and purchased with an ATF LEUP.

cobra1336 · Jan 1, 2015

Used for model rocketry motors. Have my L2, need to know if they need to be stored in my magazine and documented. Have a LEUP. Going to work now, have late shift.

UhClem · Jan 1, 2015

cobra1336 said:
Used for model rocketry motors. Have my L2, need to know if they need to be stored in my magazine and documented. Have a LEUP. Going to work now, have late shift.

Because the ATF provides no information on what is and is not regulated (they know one when they see it but they have published no clear criteria) the only thing you have to go on are the requirements of the dealer who sold you the igniters. Did that dealer require a copy of your permit and statement of intended use before the sale? If yes then they are regulated.

ksaves2 · Jan 1, 2015

UhClem said:
Because the ATF provides no information on what is and is not regulated (they know one when they see it but they have published no clear criteria) the only thing you have to go on are the requirements of the dealer who sold you the igniters. Did that dealer require a copy of your permit and statement of intended use before the sale? If yes then they are regulated.

That's the ticket.

tbonerocketeer · Jan 1, 2015

tightwad said:
we call them starters.

That doesn't matter to the Atf. It is still an igniter. They are still electric matches even if you call the ejection lighters.

cwbullet · Jan 1, 2015

Not all of them are electric matches.

tbonerocketeer · Jan 1, 2015

cwbullet said:
Not all of them are electric matches.

Like?

BBrown · Jan 1, 2015

tbonerocketeer said:
Like?

Chris,
These are not regulated: https://electricmatch.com/products/see/6/mjg-firewire-initiator
Bob

tbonerocketeer · Jan 1, 2015

BBrown said:
Chris,
These are not regulated: https://electricmatch.com/products/see/6/mjg-firewire-initiator
Bob

I know about them, they are new. How many people are actually using them?

cwbullet · Jan 1, 2015

I use them and they work well. 5 flights with 12 matches. No failures.

astronwolf · Jan 1, 2015

How about the older Estes igniters? Do the old-style model rocket igniters (w/pyrogen) require a LEUP now?

cwbullet · Jan 1, 2015

astronwolf said:
How about the older Estes igniters? Do the old-style model rocket igniters (w/pyrogen) require a LEUP now?

Nope and maybe.

cwbullet · Jan 1, 2015

astronwolf said:
How about the older Estes igniters? Do the old-style model rocket igniters (w/pyrogen) require a LEUP now?

Nope and maybe.

There is little uncertainty here. Companies are changing formulation to meet rumored ATF regulatory changes.

cobra1336 · Jan 1, 2015

OK. To be safe I will document and store my igniters.

UhClem · Jan 1, 2015

cwbullet said:
Nope and maybe.

There is little uncertainty here. Companies are changing formulation to meet rumored ATF regulatory changes.

There are no changes to the ATF regulations. Nothing has changed and nothing is in the future if you believe the agenda they are required to update twice a year. What may have happened is that the ATF decided not to honor what they said they were going to do in 1997. Which was to leave igniters with less than 50mg of pyrogen unregulated. They never put that in writing of course.

cwbullet · Jan 1, 2015

UhClem said:
There are no changes to the ATF regulations. Nothing has changed and nothing is in the future if you believe the agenda they are required to update twice a year. What may have happened is that the ATF decided not to honor what they said they were going to do in 1997. Which was to leave igniters with less than 50mg of pyrogen unregulated. They never put that in writing of course.

That maybe what has cause the manufacturers to change their formulations.

One episode of myth busters and a terrorist used Estes igniters and they decide to go after igniters again.

o1d_dude · Jan 1, 2015

I bought some of the blue white MJG initiators from BAR at Snow Rach last monh.

cwbullet · Jan 2, 2015

The Blue and White ones work and they are legal. The chinese ones bought on eBay are a less clear (I would vote on ill-egal shipping side).

ksaves2 · Jan 2, 2015

No one has to be without a motor igniter. They are just too easy to improvise and make for our purposes. The unregulated ematches take care of that problem too. One doesn't have to "fly under the radar" if they don't want to anymore. Kurt

cwbullet · Jan 2, 2015

Heck, I make my own and they burn much hotter.

tmacklin · Jan 2, 2015

If a short length of 30 GA nichrome is bridged between two 20-24 GA copper leads and then looped across the head of a paper safety match, does that constitute an "electric match"? With a 12 volt source it will most certainly ignite black powder whether it is confined within an ejection charge or inserted into a motor nozzle, and none of the ingredients are illegal...yet.

cwbullet · Jan 2, 2015

tmacklin said:
If a short length of 30 GA nichrome is bridged between two 20-24 GA copper leads and then looped across the head of a paper safety match, does that constitute an "electric match"? With a 12 volt source it will most certainly ignite black powder whether it is confined within an ejection charge or inserted into a motor nozzle, and none of the ingredients are illegal...yet.

I 100% agree with you. I burned the left overs from my igniter experiment. About 4 oz burned and it was scary. It was made with entirely legal ingredients you can buy locally and legal.

rocketsaway · Jan 2, 2015

cwbullet said:
I use them and they work well. 5 flights with 12 matches. No failures.

Chuck, what altimeters have you used ? it says recommended 1A.

cwbullet · Jan 2, 2015

I have used RRC2, RRC2+ and RRC3. I have ground tested the stratologgger.

o1d_dude · Jan 2, 2015

cwbullet said:
I have used RRC2, RRC2+ and RRC3. I have ground tested the stratologgger.

I bought the Blue/Whites for use with my RRC2+ altimeters. Thanks for the confirmation, Chuck.

cwbullet · Jan 2, 2015

They will work. They are very slimier in quality to the old MJG J-TEC electric matches.

There are lotsa new options: https://electricmatch.com/products

o1d_dude · Jan 2, 2015

cwbullet said:
They will work. They are very slimier in quality to the old MJG J-TEC electric matches.

There are lotsa new options: https://electricmatch.com/products

That's what Mike G from Bay Area Rocketry told me.

The nichrome e-match kit also caught my interest. Only $55 for 80 igniters and dips...no license required.

cwbullet · Jan 2, 2015

Dipping is a learned skill. It takes a few to get quality.

Regulated Igniters

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