Just Another Reason I Don't Buy Meat At Walmart

Reality is cruel. We prefer to retain a blind eye, but is it right? I understand, that meat production has to be on a level that can provide for the many, but when I see how it's done, my heart sinks. I'm sure I'll get some flack from this, but flackers are not important to me. What IS important, is animal respect. THERE! I said it. Be your own judge!

https://www.walmartcruelty.com/

I too believe that Animals should be treated with Dignity. Yes, I'll eat them, but being able to show Humanity and Compassion to our fellow living Beings is one of the things that makes up Human.
I won't bother to look at the Link, because I don't need to see or hear about any more Animal Cruelty. The Commercials for the ASPCA and the like are on every commercial break on the TV. I send what I can when I can.

TR, I get it that you don't want to see the clip. It's not a pretty picture. But it IS what is happening. Your donations to the ASPCA, is what I consider a good investment. A charity I actually believe in. The rest of them are out to pick your pocket.

Forgot to mention, I get my Meats at Hannafords.

Just another instance of the extremely rich corperate entity paying their way to profit throught politics.
If you are able to find out, I bet Walmart makes considerable contributions to the state senetors and governers in the states that still allow them cages.
And the poor farmer has to what their contract says or go out of buisness. Or try to survive on an open market where they could go bankrupt in one season.

Walmart is vicious. They encourage farmers, (and other companies) to provide, for less money than what they need, just so they can get their products in the stores. I hate doing business with them even though I do. I am selective though. Meats and produce are off the list. Other goods that I can spend less for, are on the list, even if it means those companies are getting duped. Business ethics suck anymore. Can't wait for a particular individual to weigh in on this. HINT! You know who you are.

I haven't stepped foot in a Walmart for over 10 years. I don't care how much more I have to pay to go elsewhere. This type of business model is no surprise. The company's attitude towards consumers is insulting. I once read a report years ago (written by a genius economic adviser) that showed that two of the biggest indicators of impending or existing economic stagnation in a community are building a Walmart and new payday loan businesses - and it was surprising how frequently those two moved into a community around the same time. In my opinion, they're leaches.
:2:

I get many of my meds from WalMart under their $4 prescription plan. Under Obamacare, the costs of generic drugs will increase as much as 10x the price they were last year because of regulations limiting the profits insurance companies can make.

What? They don't hug the animals to death? This is unacceptable. We need to abolish Wal Mart and go back to the days when thousands of Mom and Pop stores dotted the countryside, paying all their stockboys and cashiers a living wage! And no businesses were mean and competitive with each other. That's how it used to be, right?

Okay... as usual, a bunch of misinformation being spread by tree huggers with an agenda but NO real working knowledge of how and why hogs are raised a certain way.

First, while yes, hogs are intelligent animals (about as smart as dogs) they AREN'T dogs. Hogs can be EXTREMELY vicious and "cruel", like any other animal. Hogs (pigs are babies, "hogs" are grown pork producing animals) will fight and attack each other, frequently biting each other's tails, ears, etc. and even at times biting plugs out of each other if they have a fight. My nephew just had a sow take a big chunk out of another sow's butt the other day. It's like humans... they get disgruntled or dislike another one, and do bad things.

Ever wonder WHY sows have such huge litters of pigs?? Sows typically have between six and a dozen pigs every time they give birth-- this isn't by accident; otherwise we'd all be up to our butts in hogs! They have such large litters due to the fact that MOST of the piglets die within a very short time period of being born. In the wild, predation is very high-- pigs don't have much defensive mechanisms other than squealing for their angry mother. In addition, pigs suffer high mortality due to disease and climatic conditions. Also, pigs are among the worst mothers amongst mammals; they eat or browse, then return to milk, and simply "flop" down on the ground, usually while surrounded by their hungry offspring, often flopping down on top of them and simply crushing more than a few of them to death. They're not like cats or dogs who come in to their "nest" area or den where the babies are, carefully sit down on their haunches and then gently lay down after gently coaxing them out of the way. Hogs flop down and if a pig gets caught under them and gets crushed to death or pinned to the ground under a 400 pound sow and asphyxiates due to being unable to breathe, they don't care. Hence the reason farmers use gestation crates, which contain and separate the mother sow from the babies in a way to minimize and prevent the needless death of the pigs as they move in/around the sow to nurse. Gestation crates are actually MORE humane than simply allowing the sows to move around and crush the pigs in a careless fashion. Plus, to be profitable, it's essential that as many pigs as possible survive to be an adult meat animal to produce something to sell. If half the pigs get killed by their mother flopping down on them before they ever reach the point they can be slaughtered for meat, WHO does that serve?? Plus, who wants to pay MORE for pork due to the fact that the supply drops due to the lost animals killed simply due to this kind of STUPIDITY in thinking gestation crates are "inhumane"... Everybody gripes already about the high cost of food and meat in particular...

Now, I'm more of a "natural" cow/calf beef producer; I don't castrate my calves, de-horn, give antibiotics (except to attempt to save the life of a cow), don't give a bunch of vaccinations, don't feed antibiotics or use growth hormones, etc. BUT, as a cow-calf producer, that is an option I have. For large meat producers (finishing operations, who feed the calves out to slaughter weights) every bit of extra feed or lost efficiency counts, thus they DO use most of those practices. Hogs are similar... testicles are removed because they cause inefficiency in production (feed conversion) and cause off-tasting "gamey" meat (If you've ever had a musky, gamey piece of pork, you couldn't spit it out fast enough!), dehorning prevents injury to animals in close proximity, docking pigs tails prevents them biting and chewing on each other and causing infection, etc. Now, I agree that it SHOULD be done in the most humane way possible, with proper tools and procedures, but there's never going to be anything "pretty" about doing these things. And, believe me, they do them for a REASON! Pigs chewing each others tails will cause infections and fighting that can cause the animals to severely injure each other or kill each other, etc.

I have to go but that's something to think about. All these HSUS and ASPCA crap TV ads are STRICTLY about people with an agenda wanting to separate you from your money, make no mistake about it!

Later! OL JR

Luke, now the meaning behind the "strawalker" part of your go-by is more apparent! Not just smart on all things space program, I see. Thank you for sharing your perspective--very helpful.

I love the smell of bacon in the morning and I shop wherever I find the best price.

Luke
Nice concise explanation of farming practices that most "folks" don't or don't want to know exist.
Lived in farm country, Iowa & Nebraska, all of my life. Worked for a Veterinarian as a youngster and saw things some people just wouldn't like.
I can confirm that pigs are mean and not motherly. Family friends raised cattle and hogs and while they were not huge operations everything was pretty much as you described it.
Also anybody that thinks Wal Mart is the only place that buys their meat supply from the places described in the link are sadly mistaken. Wal Mart is just the largest gorilla in the forest.

Disclaimer: I worked for Wal Mart for five years about six years back. I enjoyed my job and most of the employees/managers in my store. Don't get me wrong Wal Mart has problems but it isn't a totally bad place to work or shop.

If I had to butcher animals for my own meat, I wouldn't be able to eat. That said, I will continue to eat meat, mainly chicken and will just pass on watching the perceived cruelties done to our food source. I don't begrudge anybody who chooses to be vegetarian, but if you are a vegetarian, be aware that people who disdain red meat have a much higher incidence of dementia/alzheimer's. And when you get alzheimer's, your relatives will feed you red meat whether you like it or not. :flyingpig: :lol:

+1 Luke. It seems that my brother-in-law has a similar operation just on a small scale...best beef I have ever eaten. USDA prime marbled beef can't hold a candle to grass fed and finished beef.

The industrial food chain is not a pretty place. A little research will reveal much more than most people ever really cared to know but I do recommend it. We have become very detached from our food and have very little idea where it comes from.

In my area, there are quite a few poultry farmers. Sardines in the can have more room that the birds in most of the houses. One farm just down the road raises "free range" birds. They never really even go outside, they just have the opportunity to do so if they so choose. Another nearby farm raises free range chickens and the proof is the birds that you dodge as you drive up to the sales barn but they are $15-$20 each.

We raised and processed our own chickens, pigs and goats when I was a kid. I understand why large poultry and pork producers raise their animals the way that they do. You can not have that many animals in such a small place without means to protect them from each other. Imagine living your entire life with about three feet of space to call your own, surrounded by thousands of other people. We have a hard enough time getting along with each other as it is. Just imagine the what we would be like if we were raised the way our food is. There are producers that raise food animals in a more natural setting but that is going to raise the cost.

If you have a few acres of graze, just buy a few chickens and goats and you can supply your self fairly cheaply in the long run and not have to worry about how they were treated. We had a family of five and supplied a large portion of our meat for the year this way, needing a little over an acre for the livestock. Add a 3/4 acre garden and you are well on the way to controlling most of your own food chain. If you plan things well, you can get most of the work required done on the weekends. Snapping beans and shelling peas is a great chance for family time and canning food is certainly a useful life skill. Sounds like it takes quite a bit of time? It does, that is why we have the food industry that we have now, we want cheap and easy. On the plus side, with a couple, one can stay home and take care of many of these chores without the added cost of commuting to work.

In the end, it is up to you what you eat and where you get it. If you choose not to eat something from a humanitarian standpoint, I simply ask that you research your choice independently and make a choice based on knowledge rather than opinion. Whatever you eat, know how it gets to your table.

Screaminhelo said:

If you have a few acres of graze, just buy a few chickens and goats and you can supply your self fairly cheaply in the long run and not have to worry about how they were treated. We had a family of five and supplied a large portion of our meat for the year this way, needing a little over an acre for the livestock. Add a 3/4 acre garden and you are well on the way to controlling most of your own food chain.

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I was kind of curious about this. For the farmers out there, about how much farm land in total (graze, garden, etc) would a family of four (up to 4 adults worse case) would you require to become completely self sufficient in terms of food? Assume average yields of food with some accounting for loss.

FC

FastCargo said:

I was kind of curious about this. For the farmers out there, about how much farm land in total (graze, garden, etc) would a family of four (up to 4 adults worse case) would you require to become completely self sufficient in terms of food? Assume average yields of food with some accounting for loss.

FC

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Well, I don't know specifics right now, but back in the '90's there was an old immigrant farmer from Eastern Europe (Hungary, I think). He was a customer of the Ag dealership I worked at then. He had 50 acres total. He raised 2 kids and put his son through college and bought him a new car upon graduation (granted it was only a Calvalier, but still it was new). All this just from the 50 acres. They raised their own meat, grew vegetables in a huge garden and were fairly self sufficient. They had one fairly modern (at the time) one hundred horsepower tractor and a few older smaller tractors. I often wonder what became of them...

OK, according to this site : https://www.smallfootprintfamily.com/how-much-land-is-needed-to-be-self-sufficient ,
2 acres is all you need.

Adrian

FC
While we were primarily supplementing our diet this way, I believe that we could have easily fed our family with our 5 acres. There are some things that we would have have had to learn to do without or with less. Grain would have been a bit of a challenge if you wanted something other than corn.

Our garden was about 1/2 acre and produced quite well using traditional planting methods. High yield techniques could have easily more than doubled our harvest. We had about two acres of pasture that was more than enough for our few livestock and could have supported more, to include a couple of dairy cows. Our chickens were yard birds and a base flock of 30 hens supplied plenty of eggs for us and a few of our neighbors as well as several birds for the table through out the year. We kept 5 to 6 hogs at a time so that we could trade animals with a couple of neighbors to keep some diversity in our pen and we killed one each spring and, occasionally, one at the end of the summer. They were content to root in the woods on our property and found enough acorns and such to keep them out of the yard and the creek between the pasture and the garden kept them out of the vegetables. Based on our next door neighbor's experience, I think three or four bee hives would have supplied enough honey for sweetener as long as we were not wasteful.

The catch here would be the time required. Since we were not doing this for survival, we were able to limit our heavy work to the weekends for the most part. There were times throughout the year when we needed to tend to some things during the week like during harvest time, which lead to snapping beans and shelling peas after dark. Momma also stayed home and saw to the canning and freezing of our bounty.

If you are trying to maximize your self sufficiency, heating the house would require quite a bit of property. We supplemented our gas furnace with wood and still burned about two cords of wood each year. If you had someone to barter with, increasing the garden to an acre could provide a fairly useful surplus for things like fire wood that require large acreage or specialized skills, knowledge and equipment.

I believe that trying to maintain a full time job and produce all of your own food would be just a bit taxing. As a kid, I hated having to work all of the time on weekends and such but I miss it now and curse my 1/2 acre lot and remember how daddy felt cramped on a measly five acres. It was a fair bit of work but not all consuming. In all, it wasn't a bad life and I wouldn't mind having it back one bit.

This estimate is firmly grounded in the tried and true SWAG doctrine and all data used comes from an infallible memory of my life of thirty+ years ago. I may be a bit optimistic in what one can do with five acres but I do believe that it would, at least, be enough to surprise many people. I would be interested in Luke's thoughts about what you would need to support livestock for such a group.

Gary Byrum said:

View attachment 249438

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:lol: :lol:

Now get in my belly! (said in my best Mike Myers as Fat Bastidge)

Adrian

Screaminhelo said:

+1 Luke. It seems that my brother-in-law has a similar operation just on a small scale...best beef I have ever eaten. USDA prime marbled beef can't hold a candle to grass fed and finished beef.

The industrial food chain is not a pretty place. A little research will reveal much more than most people ever really cared to know but I do recommend it. We have become very detached from our food and have very little idea where it comes from.

In my area, there are quite a few poultry farmers. Sardines in the can have more room that the birds in most of the houses. One farm just down the road raises "free range" birds. They never really even go outside, they just have the opportunity to do so if they so choose. Another nearby farm raises free range chickens and the proof is the birds that you dodge as you drive up to the sales barn but they are $15-$20 each.

We raised and processed our own chickens, pigs and goats when I was a kid. I understand why large poultry and pork producers raise their animals the way that they do. You can not have that many animals in such a small place without means to protect them from each other. Imagine living your entire life with about three feet of space to call your own, surrounded by thousands of other people. We have a hard enough time getting along with each other as it is. Just imagine the what we would be like if we were raised the way our food is. There are producers that raise food animals in a more natural setting but that is going to raise the cost.

If you have a few acres of graze, just buy a few chickens and goats and you can supply your self fairly cheaply in the long run and not have to worry about how they were treated. We had a family of five and supplied a large portion of our meat for the year this way, needing a little over an acre for the livestock. Add a 3/4 acre garden and you are well on the way to controlling most of your own food chain. If you plan things well, you can get most of the work required done on the weekends. Snapping beans and shelling peas is a great chance for family time and canning food is certainly a useful life skill. Sounds like it takes quite a bit of time? It does, that is why we have the food industry that we have now, we want cheap and easy. On the plus side, with a couple, one can stay home and take care of many of these chores without the added cost of commuting to work.

In the end, it is up to you what you eat and where you get it. If you choose not to eat something from a humanitarian standpoint, I simply ask that you research your choice independently and make a choice based on knowledge rather than opinion. Whatever you eat, know how it gets to your table.

Click to expand...

EXACTLY!

There is no "Free lunch".

I don't have ANY problem with people making up their own minds, or being vocal about their position, or whatever. That's freedom and part of being in a free society. BUT, what I *DO* have a problem with is these people with a big agenda that think *their* way is the ONLY way and everybody else, producer and non-producer alike, should be FORCED to do it *their* way. All it does is drive farm businesses out of business.

Several states have outlawed gestation crates because of activist pot stirrers getting laws passed by unsuspecting, uninformed electorates "voting with their hearts" out of ignorance rather than from an informed position. All it's managed to do is drive the commercial hog operations into other states that don't have such laws. Plus, it emboldens and enriches these activist nutcase groups that then start charging into other states and then DEMAND that the farmers and farm groups in that state start doing things *their way* or they'll "swing the ax" and get the electorate whipped up and pass a bunch of laws that will drive the farmers out of business.

If a person doesn't approve of "big ag" practices, well, there's plenty of alternatives... "Free range" livestock, certified organic, etc... lots of alternatives, as well as raising your own or joining various local food co-ops with local, usually pretty small-time growers, that produce and sell specifically to their targeted clientele and do so in a manner consistent with their preferences and priorities.

Thing is, these uneducated activist types think that just because a guy raising 20 hogs a year and selling pork to a couple dozen local families or something is a model for the ENTIRE food production system. Sorry folks, but it just ain't so.

Certified organic and now various production-method guarantees have been around for a LONG time, but they still are mainly a niche product... most people are NOT willing to pay roughly DOUBLE the price of regular "off the shelf" competing products produced using "big ag" methods... Some folks are, and with the profusion of biotech products and ingredients hitting the market, more horomones and antibiotic residues in meats, anti-production method activist thinking and preferences, etc. the market share for these niche products HAS been growing, as have alternative agriculture producers, co-ops, organizations, grass-fed, free range, whatever you want to call it... BUT it is STILL a TINY FRACTION of the total agriculture production and food volume of products in the stores, for a REASON-- MOST folks will NOT pay the high prices such products demand due to the production difficulties and increased expenses.

If a farmer wants to get certified organic, basically it's at LEAST a $20,000-30,000 effort just to do the paperwork, get the assessments, and etc. to go through the process. Then the farmer must use certified organic processes and procedures for at least three years, while being unable to sell his products for the certified organic premium price, instead having to sell into the regular "big ag" markets... with greatly increased costs for certified organic production and usually lower yields to boot, selling at the lower regular "commodity agriculture" prices, it's a GUARANTEED money-loser until one gets the certification and can sell into the "certified organic" market and charge the higher prices to recoup the losses. We looked into the process a few years back and it's like everything else-- a moneymaking monkey-show process designed to make fortunes for the people overseeing the "system" and "requirements" to get into it.

It's all a racket, whichever way you want to slice it... it's just "whose racket you're going to be a part of"... These activist rackets though really make me sick... they trot out some bleeding heart know-nothing actor willing to lend their fame and face to the "cause" and put plenty of pictures of poor, sad, abused animals on TV to separate people from their money... it's just a different version of the age-old snake-oil salesmen of years past, or most of the weeping TV preachers pilfering lonely widows and old timer's retirements dry...

Later! OL JR

Screaminhelo said:

FC
While we were primarily supplementing our diet this way, I believe that we could have easily fed our family with our 5 acres. There are some things that we would have have had to learn to do without or with less. Grain would have been a bit of a challenge if you wanted something other than corn.

Our garden was about 1/2 acre and produced quite well using traditional planting methods. High yield techniques could have easily more than doubled our harvest. We had about two acres of pasture that was more than enough for our few livestock and could have supported more, to include a couple of dairy cows. Our chickens were yard birds and a base flock of 30 hens supplied plenty of eggs for us and a few of our neighbors as well as several birds for the table through out the year. We kept 5 to 6 hogs at a time so that we could trade animals with a couple of neighbors to keep some diversity in our pen and we killed one each spring and, occasionally, one at the end of the summer. They were content to root in the woods on our property and found enough acorns and such to keep them out of the yard and the creek between the pasture and the garden kept them out of the vegetables. Based on our next door neighbor's experience, I think three or four bee hives would have supplied enough honey for sweetener as long as we were not wasteful.

The catch here would be the time required. Since we were not doing this for survival, we were able to limit our heavy work to the weekends for the most part. There were times throughout the year when we needed to tend to some things during the week like during harvest time, which lead to snapping beans and shelling peas after dark. Momma also stayed home and saw to the canning and freezing of our bounty.

If you are trying to maximize your self sufficiency, heating the house would require quite a bit of property. We supplemented our gas furnace with wood and still burned about two cords of wood each year. If you had someone to barter with, increasing the garden to an acre could provide a fairly useful surplus for things like fire wood that require large acreage or specialized skills, knowledge and equipment.

I believe that trying to maintain a full time job and produce all of your own food would be just a bit taxing. As a kid, I hated having to work all of the time on weekends and such but I miss it now and curse my 1/2 acre lot and remember how daddy felt cramped on a measly five acres. It was a fair bit of work but not all consuming. In all, it wasn't a bad life and I wouldn't mind having it back one bit.

This estimate is firmly grounded in the tried and true SWAG doctrine and all data used comes from an infallible memory of my life of thirty+ years ago. I may be a bit optimistic in what one can do with five acres but I do believe that it would, at least, be enough to surprise many people. I would be interested in Luke's thoughts about what you would need to support livestock for such a group.

Click to expand...

Well, in answer to this and the other question someone posted (FC?) about what would be necessary to support a family of four, it TOTALLY depends on your area, soils, climate, and what kind of life you wanted.

There are plenty of people nowdays going "off-grid" and living "sustainably" and such. The Amish basically live this way, and usually sell products as well for extra money. There are SO many variables though that it's pretty much impossible to give a "pat" answer...

In our area near Houston, we're running our cow-calf operation at about 2 acres per head. Of courser we're also baling our own hay, and I lost a field of about 15 acres that I was cutting hay on once or twice a year... so now we're having to take hay off our own farm by setting aside one 20 acre field. We're actually a little lower animal density than that, because currently we have about 35 head on 87 acres at Needville, but that varies, because we sold about 15 calves a few months back and have had a few calves since, and will continue to throughout the winter and spring (we don't do a set "calving season"-- we let the bull run with the cows all the time and breed them as they cycle-- simpler than keeping the bull out and making the cows all "cycle together" so they all breed together and calve together, like they do up north (to avoid calving in winter when the cold weather can kill the calves). One of the benefits of living down south!) Of course, in the drought, we had about 40 head on 87 acres and the whole place looked like a putting green they were grazing it so hard, so it really is TOTALLY dependent upon the weather!

In Shiner, just 100 miles west, we're running about 50-55 head on 160 acres... so over 3 acres per head. That's about as high as you can realistically go with any sort of sustainability, and basically 4 acres per head would be better. In a drought, no way you can sustain even that.

Brood cows have lower nutrient requirements by far than dairy cattle... so if someone's running a couple dairy cows on a couple acres, well, they must be living in paradise-- just perfect grass and excellent climate, rainfall, etc...

It CAN be done, but it's SO dependent on local climate, soils, methods, etc. as to be meaningless to discuss in a broader sense-- what works on a place like that might not work AT ALL just a few miles down the road on different soil, or in a year when the weather doesn't cooperate...

I know it's been a real education for me helping my BIL in Indiana with his soybean and corn crops, and fiddling with hogs... (we had a hog or two for our own meat when I was a kid, but Dad quit bothering with it by the time I started school in '75). The way they do things and the way we do things are VERY, VERY different... it was as much of a curiosity for them when my wife and I married and they first came to visit us, when I was row-cropping cotton and grain sorghum, and seeing the soybean and corn farming in our area (which is very much secondary crops). The methods are DRASTICALLY different!

Later! OL JR

Bought this brisket at walmart, was pretty good. If I want cuts like this, I have no choice. Local grocers are charging six to eight bucks/pound for brisket, which is positively ridiculous. $3.68/lb. at walmart. I hugged it in it's afterlife.

luke strawwalker said:

Well, in answer to this and the other question someone posted (FC?) about what would be necessary to support a family of four, it TOTALLY depends on your area, soils, climate, and what kind of life you wanted.

There are plenty of people nowdays going "off-grid" and living "sustainably" and such. The Amish basically live this way, and usually sell products as well for extra money. There are SO many variables though that it's pretty much impossible to give a "pat" answer...

In our area near Houston, we're running our cow-calf operation at about 2 acres per head. Of courser we're also baling our own hay, and I lost a field of about 15 acres that I was cutting hay on once or twice a year... so now we're having to take hay off our own farm by setting aside one 20 acre field. We're actually a little lower animal density than that, because currently we have about 35 head on 87 acres at Needville, but that varies, because we sold about 15 calves a few months back and have had a few calves since, and will continue to throughout the winter and spring (we don't do a set "calving season"-- we let the bull run with the cows all the time and breed them as they cycle-- simpler than keeping the bull out and making the cows all "cycle together" so they all breed together and calve together, like they do up north (to avoid calving in winter when the cold weather can kill the calves). One of the benefits of living down south!) Of course, in the drought, we had about 40 head on 87 acres and the whole place looked like a putting green they were grazing it so hard, so it really is TOTALLY dependent upon the weather!

In Shiner, just 100 miles west, we're running about 50-55 head on 160 acres... so over 3 acres per head. That's about as high as you can realistically go with any sort of sustainability, and basically 4 acres per head would be better. In a drought, no way you can sustain even that.

Brood cows have lower nutrient requirements by far than dairy cattle... so if someone's running a couple dairy cows on a couple acres, well, they must be living in paradise-- just perfect grass and excellent climate, rainfall, etc...

It CAN be done, but it's SO dependent on local climate, soils, methods, etc. as to be meaningless to discuss in a broader sense-- what works on a place like that might not work AT ALL just a few miles down the road on different soil, or in a year when the weather doesn't cooperate...

I know it's been a real education for me helping my BIL in Indiana with his soybean and corn crops, and fiddling with hogs... (we had a hog or two for our own meat when I was a kid, but Dad quit bothering with it by the time I started school in '75). The way they do things and the way we do things are VERY, VERY different... it was as much of a curiosity for them when my wife and I married and they first came to visit us, when I was row-cropping cotton and grain sorghum, and seeing the soybean and corn farming in our area (which is very much secondary crops). The methods are DRASTICALLY different!

Later! OL JR

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Gee OL JR, you just don't know how to make a comment. For as long as I have been a part of this forum, you have written novels. Don't get me wrong, you do have knowledge in areas some of us don't. But can't you make a statement without turning into a 10 minute read?

Gary Byrum said:

Gee OL JR, you just don't know how to make a comment. For as long as I have been a part of this forum, you have written novels. Don't get me wrong, you do have knowledge in areas some of us don't. But can't you make a statement without turning into a 10 minute read?

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Why not?

I'd rather have more, thoughtful, contextual information backed by measurable data than short, touchy-feeley generalities.

FC

I enjoy reading them, since I have lived on the Eastern (or Eas'dern for some folks) seaboard all my life I have never had any serious exposure to today's agriculture. I think we are fortunate to have his intimate perspective on these issues.

luke strawwalker said:

EXACTLY! If a farmer wants to get certified organic, basically it's at LEAST a $20,000-30,000 effort just to do the paperwork, get the assessments, and etc. to go through the process. Then the farmer must use certified organic processes and procedures for at least three years, while being unable to sell his products for the certified organic premium price, instead having to sell into the regular "big ag" markets... with greatly increased costs for certified organic production and usually lower yields to boot, selling at the lower regular "commodity agriculture" prices, it's a GUARANTEED money-loser until one gets the certification and can sell into the "certified organic" market and charge the higher prices to recoup the losses. We looked into the process a few years back and it's like everything else-- a moneymaking monkey-show process designed to make fortunes for the people overseeing the "system" and "requirements" to get into it.

Click to expand...

My brother in law looked into getting certified and it just wasn't worth it for the handful of animals that he sold. He can still sell them as grass fed with no hormones and have no problem selling them. When he first revived the family cattle business people actually started out trying to out bid on another when the folks seeking sustainable beef got wind of his operation. The funny thing about it is that he has enough land to expand and completely support his family on certified organic beef but he can't afford to get certified.

Luke,
I agree with y'all 99%. The 1% I question is not castrating calves for steers?
If y'all were closer, I know whewe I'd be buying my freezed beef. I'm hoping I can get on the list at a friend-of a friend's dairy farm and get one of their holstein steers they raise.

Gary Byrum said:

Gee OL JR, you just don't know how to make a comment. For as long as I have been a part of this forum, you have written novels. Don't get me wrong, you do have knowledge in areas some of us don't. But can't you make a statement without turning into a 10 minute read?

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No.



Later! OL JR

luke strawwalker said:

No.



Later! OL JR

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Wait a second here...