estes sonic igniters for ejection

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

watermelonman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2014
Messages
2,597
Reaction score
10
Any reason to use, or not use, Estes Sonic igniters for my ejection charges? Unlike Quest Q2G2 they seem to be in stock!
 
Test it, will it ignite reliably? A lot of these motor igniters need big batteries, and on board electronics don't have the capacity to fire them. That's why so many people use E matches, because they take very little to fire.
 
I've had mixed reliability with them. The important things to have in a lighter are reliability and lighting ability. They're reliability may be mediocre- I don't have the best record with them lighting composites (on some occasions the igniter itself wouldn't light at all), and I've heard mixed things about them on here. Also, the head is very fragile. It is relatively long and brittle, and so when it is in BP, packed with wadding, and tamped down, then subjected to perhaps numerous Gs. Personally, I wouldn't trust them, simply because the head is susceptible to breaking, and, even if it doesn't, may not light. I'd rather get some lighters from Crazy Jim, or see if you can buy some Q2G2s from someone at a launch
The way I see it, the lighters are one of the most failure prone parts of a recovery system-- they are responsible for successfully lighting, and then also lighting the BP that will separate your rocket-- and it makes sense to splurge on some good ones. The alternative may be splurging on a new rocket! :y:
take this with a grain of salt, as I do have limited experience with dual deploy and estes sonic igniters, but, from what I've seen, they're far from ideal.

Nate
 
Last edited:
The alternative may not only be splurging on a new rocket, but buying someone else a new car/house or paying medical expenses as well as criminal charges if the rocket comes down on someone's car/property.
 
The alternative may not only be splurging on a new rocket, but buying someone else a new car/house or paying medical expenses as well as criminal charges if the rocket comes down on someone's car/property.

Absolutely. Not quite as likely an outcome, but it only takes once to ruin the rocketeer, club, or hobby.

Nate
 
I would not use Estes Sonic Igniters. I tested some with the silly ol' estes launch controller (2 AA's?) which of course it said they work with that controller. However, for it to work I had to press and hold the launch button for several seconds (2-5 seconds) before the igniters sparked, and the sparks were not very good large, or strong. It may be enough to pop black powder, but .... the delay was too long and the power just wasn't there for me to recommend them for a 9v battery altimeter charge.
 
You'll want something similar to an E match for fireworks. The criteria is if it will fire with a AAA battery, and if the AAA battery will fire them IMMEDIATELY (e matches will do this, as soon as you touch the lead it fires).

If it takes several seconds to fire with a AAA battery, or not at all, then it is no good for dual deployment.

Get one of those Chinese e matches, double them up if you worry about reliability.
 
I used Estes Sonic Igniters for my DD Ventris. Worked fine. Eggtimer with a lithium 9V for ejection. They might not light AP consistently, but they light BP no problem. But then again, I'm not known for doing things the "smart" way.
 
I was not trying to save money so much as get a reasonably available supply. Who knew the hardest part of dual deployment would be sourcing the igniters, hah! I would not mind rolling my own igniters at some point but for now I simply want to get off the ground.

Not sure if Wildman was not available when I looked before, but they look good now. These also look like an option, anyone have experience with?
https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocket_Motors/Motor_Starters/Twiggy_Starter
 
Those are 12v motor starters. Designed to be used with 12v launch systems.
NOT to be used with altimeters, which are generally using low current ejection starters.
 
Since he wouldn't plug his own, I'll plug them for him. Check out the Yard Sale subforum for Crazy Jim's igniters. Very reasonably priced.
 
The specifications for the Quest Q2G2 and Estes Sonic Igniters should answer a lot of your questions and portray the difference between an e-match and an igniter. They are very different igniters and are not interchangeable.

Specifications for the Estes Sonic Igniters. https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocket_Motors/Igniters/Estes_Sonic_Igniter
Specifications for the OOP quest Q2G2 igniters. https://www.questaerospace.com/cgi-bin/commerce.exe?preadd=action&key=7025

And some definitive time-resolved real data for the Quest Q2G2 igniters. https://www.apogeerockets.com/education/downloads/Q2G2_Igniter_Report.pdf (Note the Estes igniters in this comparison are the Standard Estes Solar igniters not the Estes Sonic igniters discussed here.)

The Estes Sonic igniter characteristics are: Resistance = 1.6 ohm, no-fire current = 1.25 amps, all-fire current = 3.8 amps. The derived minimum reliable voltage parameter is V = RI = 1.6 ohms x 3.8 amps = 6 volts which means they are not reliable with a 1S LiPo powered Altimeter. At 9 volts the sonic igniters will try to draw I = V/R = 9/1.6 = 5.6 amps which is beyond the current output capability of a standard 9 volt transistor battery (3-5 amps) and could brown out the altimeter rendering it useless so using the Estes Sonic igniters will not be reliable with 9 volt transistor batteries.

The Quest Q2G2 igniter characteristics are: Resistance = 1.8 ohm, no-fire current = 0.15 amps, all-fire current = 0.35 amps. The derived minimum reliable voltage parameter is V = RI = 1.8 ohms x 0.35 amps = 0.63 can be reliably activated by any battery capable of supplying a current > 0.35 amps. At 9 volts the sonic igniters will try to draw I = V/R = 9/1.8 = 5 amps however since that current is more than 14 times the all-fire current, the activation will occur faster than the capacitance of the altimeter will allow the voltage to droop. The activation time with a 3.5 amp current was measured at 1.8 milliseconds! Basically this e-match type igniter will work with just about any altimeter using a small 1S LiPo battery or 9 volt transistor battery.

The take-away is the while Estes Sonic igniters may work most of the time, they will not work all the time because of voltage and/or current limitations of some commonly used batteries in hobby rocket altimeters.

The e-match like Quest Q2G2 igniters are not limited by the most commonly used battery configurations with rocketry altimeters.

Bob
 
Back
Top