More Cineroc questions... Film Pack info needed.

I'm thinking about doing a short story (perhaps film) where a Cineroc is the star (or the Macguffin as film makers would call it). The story is set in 1975.


I'd like to know everything there is to know about the Cineroc Combo Offer from that time frame.


I've seen a number of NOS Cinerocs come up for sale on eBay, and got some nice photos from there. Thanks to a supporter who wishes to remain anonymous, I've not only got a Cineroc, but also a K-52P, and the plans for a K-52. Unfortunately, my Cineroc is missing the take-up pulley.


As you may know, my 2nd Cineroc was mauled by a puppy (before it could be mailed to me), as such very little of it was salvageable. Fortunately the camera's outer body was only slightly damaged, but the pulley was broken and chewed. Remarkably, the pressure plate survived. The mauled Cineroc had an odd piece of rubber (a flat(ish) disk of rubber), and I've seen something that had a loose disk of black felt. What is that?


I'd like to know if anyone has a spare pulley? I'm also looking for an original film pack (opened or not). I'm also looking for two (unmade) 18" Estes Sunburst parachutes still in their original bags. I've received some older parachutes from another member here, but they are too old for the setting. (I've repaired and reinforced them, and am looking to fly a copy of the Cineroc using them when I can get the copy I want made).


Some basic info I'm looking for:


The black film pack bag, I know it contained the batteries, and the film pack. Presuming the bag was intact, was the batteries sealed away from the film? What was it made of? My feel is that it's similar to an MRE bag (some kind of plastic over aluminum), or was it more like a plastic garbage bag? Was it tubular, and only sealed on the ends? or was it made of two parts fused together?


I presume that the paper parts (the ID/Reward sticker, Instructions, Battery testing wire/instructions, tape bands, etc.) and the parachute were laid flat on top of the inner cardboard supports. Perhaps they were rolled, and shipped inside the camera's body. Was the nosecone taped on the camera body already?


Was the eye bolt installed, or was that done by the owner?


From what I can gather, the camera/transition part was on one side of the box, the nosecone/camera body was on the other, and the film pack ?was between them?.


Again, thanks for all the info!


All The Best!
Jim.


BTW, my last 3D printing guy hasn't responded to emails/posts for a while, so my CinerocDV concept is on hold again. If you've got MAD rendering skills and/or a 3D printer, I've got a project for you (If you like).
__________________

Jim:
I have either a 701-K-52P Astron Omaga from 1970 or a K-52P Omaga from 1973.. Have to see which one I built a few years back Doh! also have my original Cineroc on whichever one I built.
Also have a Brand new unopened Cineroc that I'll Open and photograph over the next couple days. it has an unopened Flim packet that I will not open but will document as best I can. Somewhere I have an extra 701-CFH-8 super-8 film cartradge I've used several times until my Super-8 film source dried up. Once I put my hands on it I'll get the measurements.

Sorry; can't help with the pulley.

Hi John,

Thanks, whatever you can provide would be appreciated.

All The Best!
Jim

"The mauled Cineroc had an odd piece of rubber (a flat(ish) disk of rubber), and I've seen something that had a loose disk of black felt. What is that?"

Only Rubber on the Cineroc is the rubber band that goes around the take-up pulley. No loose disk of black felt either.




" The black film pack bag, I know it contained the batteries, and the film pack. Presuming the bag was intact, was the batteries sealed away from the film? What was it made of? My feel is that it's similar to an MRE bag (some kind of plastic over aluminum), or was it more like a plastic garbage bag? Was it tubular, and only sealed on the ends? or was it made of two parts fused together?"

Batteries and film pack together in black bag; nothing separating them. Black plastic bag is made out of the same plastic that you can find in hardware stores, sold in rolls as protective floor covering for painters. Like a plastic garbage bag, but thicker. Made of one piece of plastic twice as long as finished bag is; folded over, thermal sealed on both of it's long sides. Film pack and batteries are inserted and then remaining open end is thermal sealed.


"I presume that the paper parts (the ID/Reward sticker, Instructions, Battery testing wire/instructions, tape bands, etc.) and the parachute were laid flat on top of the inner cardboard supports. Perhaps they were rolled, and shipped inside the camera's body."

All these papers / parts were flat with the instruction manual in back of the Cineroc. Parachute may have been inside camera body.


"Was the nosecone taped on the camera body already?"

Yes.


"Was the eye bolt installed, or was that done by the owner?"

Installed in bulkhead.


"From what I can gather, the camera/transition part was on one side of the box, the nosecone/camera body was on the other, and the film pack ?was between them?."

Yes. The pulley was also in between, inserted in a little hole in the cardboard, under the film pack bag.

DanFrank said:

"The mauled Cineroc had an odd piece of rubber (a flat(ish) disk of rubber), and I've seen something that had a loose disk of black felt. What is that?"

Only Rubber on the Cineroc is the rubber band that goes around the take-up pulley. No loose disk of black felt either.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the clarification on that!

DanFrank said:

"Batteries and film pack together in black bag; nothing separating them. Black plastic bag is made out of the same plastic that you can find in hardware stores, sold in rolls as protective floor covering for painters. Like a plastic garbage bag, but thicker. Made of one piece of plastic twice as long as finished bag is; folded over, thermal sealed on both of it's long sides. Film pack and batteries are inserted and then remaining open end is thermal sealed.

Click to expand...

Ok, so the film pack is made from visqueen (polyethelene sheeting), any idea of how "heavy" it was? .3mil? .4? .6? something else? So it's constructed by one long strip folded over, sealed on the long ends, loaded and then sealed at the "top". How wide/long was it? I wonder if a person was to open a previously unopened pack (today) if the batteries would have ruined the film by leaking.

DanFrank said:

"I presume that the paper parts (the ID/Reward sticker, Instructions, Battery testing wire/instructions, tape bands, etc.) and the parachute were laid flat on top of the inner cardboard supports. Perhaps they were rolled, and shipped inside the camera's body."

All these papers / parts were flat with the instruction manual in back of the Cineroc. Parachute may have been inside camera body.


"Was the nosecone taped on the camera body already?"

Yes.


"Was the eye bolt installed, or was that done by the owner?"

Installed in bulkhead.


"From what I can gather, the camera/transition part was on one side of the box, the nosecone/camera body was on the other, and the film pack ?was between them?."

Yes. The pulley was also in between, inserted in a little hole in the cardboard, under the film pack bag.

Click to expand...

Thanks for all that info!

Looks like older Cinerocs (w/Checkerboard parachutes) came with a shock cord (newer Cinerocs (w/Sunburst parachutes, may have as well, but I've yet to see it). I wonder if it also included an uninstalled SE-3 Screw Eye (for panorama and looking down camera angles) . In the plans I have for the K-52P Omega, it included a SE-1 (for the payload nose block), but the K-52 Omega plans make me believe that it didn't include a SE-1 or SE-3.

I've also discovered that the newer Cinerocs still had the old instructions on making the parachute (instructions show drawings of the checkerboard parachute). Both versions had the parachutes in plastic bags. I don't know if the tape disks or ?tabs? were packed in with them, or loose.

Micromeister said:

Jim:
I have either a 701-K-52P Astron Omaga from 1970 or a K-52P Omaga from 1973.. Have to see which one I built a few years back Doh! also have my original Cineroc on whichever one I built.
Also have a Brand new unopened Cineroc that I'll Open and photograph over the next couple days. it has an unopened Flim packet that I will not open but will document as best I can. Somewhere I have an extra 701-CFH-8 super-8 film cartradge I've used several times until my Super-8 film source dried up. Once I put my hands on it I'll get the measurements.

Sorry; can't help with the pulley.

Click to expand...

Nice of you to open the unused one up for him but that will ding the value immensely if you wanted to use its sale for a house payment.

Jim, is your ultimate goal to fly a stock Cineroc with film? That would be impressive. Kurt

Not sure you ever saw this...it breaks my heart to watch it, for obvious reasons (my youthful Cineroc envy prominent), plus how much stuff cost back then. Amazing how today, a kid with a keychain camera can more easily take better video, but that's progress.

[video=youtube;GEbR_A6-tkE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEbR_A6-tkE&spfreload=10"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEbR_A6-tkE&spfreload=10[/video]

ksaves2 said:

Nice of you to open the unused one up for him but that will ding the value immensely if you wanted to use its sale for a house payment.

Click to expand...

Hadn't thought of that. I just got a reply to an email with another Cineroc owner, and he confirmed that the film pack was situated in the gap between the cardboard flaps holding the camera and the camera body/nosecone in place.

ksaves2 said:

Jim, is your ultimate goal to fly a stock Cineroc with film? That would be impressive. Kurt

Click to expand...

I'm thinking that I'd like to do a minimum of 6 flights with a stock(ish) Cineroc. Three with checkerboard parachute, three with orange sunburst parachute. One (each) looking up, looking down, and panorama. The (ish) part would have the nosecone replaced with a 3D printed one for installing the SE-3 screw eye.

The_Lone_Beagle said:

Not sure you ever saw this...it breaks my heart to watch it, for obvious reasons (my youthful Cineroc envy prominent), plus how much stuff cost back then. Amazing how today, a kid with a keychain camera can more easily take better video, but that's progress.

[video=youtube;GEbR_A6-tkE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEbR_A6-tkE&spfreload=10"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEbR_A6-tkE&spfreload=10[/video]

Click to expand...

They didn't vent the booster. Too bad.

K'Tesh said:

Thanks for the clarification on that!





Ok, so the film pack is made from visqueen (polyethelene sheeting), any idea of how "heavy" it was? .3mil? .4? .6? something else? So it's constructed by one long strip folded over, sealed on the long ends, loaded and then sealed at the "top". How wide/long was it? I wonder if a person was to open a previously unopened pack (today) if the batteries would have ruined the film by leaking.





Thanks for all that info!

Looks like older Cinerocs (w/Checkerboard parachutes) came with a shock cord (newer Cinerocs (w/Sunburst parachutes, may have as well, but I've yet to see it). I wonder if it also included an uninstalled SE-3 Screw Eye (for panorama and looking down camera angles) . In the plans I have for the K-52P Omega, it included a SE-1 (for the payload nose block), but the K-52 Omega plans make me believe that it didn't include a SE-1 or SE-3.

I've also discovered that the newer Cinerocs still had the old instructions on making the parachute (instructions show drawings of the checkerboard parachute). Both versions had the parachutes in plastic bags. I don't know if the tape disks or ?tabs? were packed in with them, or loose.

Click to expand...

Carbon Zinc batteries don't "leak". I have seen some where the zinc outer casing of the battery had become corroded.

The original film included is ruined because it is so outdated.

Only one eye screw came with the Cineroc. If you wanted the eye screw in the nose of the Cineroc, you either took out the one at the base or used a second eye screw that you bought.

All Cinerocs came with a piece of elastic shock cord for the parachute. Nowadays, always rotted from age, if it's still in the box.

Only one version of Instruction manual came with the Cineroc.

The black film bag measures 2" X 5.5"

And, if you want to get into the real nitty gritty of things...

Cinerocs until 1974 or thereabouts, used red, green and black electrical wiring; afterwards, they used red, green, and grey wire.

The first few months of Cineroc production, the Cineroc frame had no reinforcing plastic ridge built into the frame, afterwards they did, to help prevent breakage.

The original Cineroc film had a polyestar base which was thinner than normal acetate based film, so 10' would fit into the cartridge. If the film used is acetate based, only 9' of film will fit into the cartridge.

The_Lone_Beagle said:

Not sure you ever saw this...it breaks my heart to watch it, for obvious reasons (my youthful Cineroc envy prominent), plus how much stuff cost back then. Amazing how today, a kid with a keychain camera can more easily take better video, but that's progress.

[video=youtube;GEbR_A6-tkE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEbR_A6-tkE&spfreload=10"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEbR_A6-tkE&spfreload=10[/video]

Click to expand...

OUCH!!! No, I'd never seen that video.

ksaves2 said:

Nice of you to open the unused one up for him but that will ding the value immensely if you wanted to use its sale for a house payment.

Jim, is your ultimate goal to fly a stock Cineroc with film? That would be impressive. Kurt

Click to expand...

Yes I hadn't though about that. Since most of Jim's questions have been answered I think I'll refrain from Opening the package. I'll still have to find my film cartridge as it's been about 12 years since I last used it
One thing that may be helpful: I've used a pair of "N" cell batteries to power my original Cineroc several times without harm to the drive motor.