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fineberg

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I recently moved from northern California to Massachusetts. We could argue the merits, and whether I am crazy to move to the cold weather, but I have discovered some major differences from a rocketry perspective. The biggest difference is field size and trees. In California I flew with LUNAR, TCC, and Aeropac. There, we had much bigger fields to fly in, all the way to Nevada's Black Rock Desert, which is seemingly endless. In these fields we I could have a rocket drift a mile or more without any issues. So, I rarely did dual deploy for rockets going less than a mile, and I have even flown dual deploy up to 7K ft. Also, we had higher waivers. 15k at my local clubs, 100k+ at Black Rock. So, I used to like flying minimum diameter, high flying/fast rockets.

Now that I am in Mass, the local club (CMASS) has an undersized field with a 5k waiver, and a slightly farther club (MMMSC) has a 10k waiver. In addition, they have trees, so the "penalty" for a rocket drifting off too far is much higher. Therefore, they use dual deploy, often for rockets going only 2k-3k ft. They also don't fly as high. With my existing fleet, I can't fly bigger than an I at CMASS' field, and maybe a K at MMMSC.

So, I have been thinking what to do. Clearly I need a rocket that is dual deploy and won't go as high on a big motor. But I also want something that is easy to set up and fly. I also hate very heavy rockets, since I am usually carrying them back myself.

So, I decided my best bet would be a Polecat 7.5" thumper, 75mm mount, AV bay option.
  • Large diameter=drag, low altitude on big motors
  • Cardboard/plywood = low weight (compared to say a Gizmo XL)
  • Dual deploy
  • Capable of flying a range of motors - J to M, maybe a large I depending on final weight
  • Reasonable cost

I ordered the kit from Mike at Bay Area Rocketry, and I am planning to start the build over the holidays.
 
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So, a couple of choice points. How to reinforce the fins and the fin can. I want to be sturdy enough to fly M's, but I don't want too much weight.

For the fin can, I am planning to fill it with Giant Leap mega-foam. That should help keep the fins in, and help keep the motor from blowing its way though the rocket. I will have a flanged AeroPac mounted flush to the aft bulkhead for retention and to help distribute the impulse.

The fins are 1/4" Baltic birch plywood. I have only flown fiberglass so far on L3 rockets, and for those I did full tip-to-tip lamination with carbon fiber. I would be open to opinions as to whether the fins need to be laminated with fiberglass or carbon, and whether a full tip to tip is needed. Anyone have experience with Polecat fins?

Sam
 
Just an FYI, URRG in Potter, NY has a huge field and a very high waiver (I think they can do call-ins over 20k feet). MDRA (Maryland's Eastern Shore) has a 17k waiver and a pretty big field in the winter months before/after crops.
 
Just an FYI, URRG in Potter, NY has a huge field and a very high waiver (I think they can do call-ins over 20k feet). MDRA (Maryland's Eastern Shore) has a 17k waiver and a pretty big field in the winter months before/after crops.
Another hour south of MDRA is BattlePark with a 16K waiver and flies when the crops aren't in. Va. can get cold in Jan. and Feb. but there is seldom any snow to deal with, mud some times.
 
Sam,

Congrats(?) on the move. You have embraced East Coast rocketry well with a fine choice in rockets. As a single deploy fan, I tend to keep my flights between 2K-4K. You can do this easily at METRA with a high degree of success. MDRA, METRA and URRG are all going to be a hike for you though. Your new field up in ME is pretty nice, been there once and enjoyed it but I can see how it would be different than what you are used to. Good luck with the build!
 
Welcome to the East Coast. We rarely sly as high, but we have a lot of fun.
 
The pictures I have seen of MDRA and URRG have trees scary close, at least by what I am used to. Also at TCC and Black Rock you can drive fairly close to the rocket (right up to it on Black Rock), so no hiking a mile carrying a 30 pound rocket.

I am aware there are a few places with high waivers, however, none of them would handle the 28k flight I did in 2013 at Black Rock. I am hoping to do a minimum diameter M flight at URRG when I get a chance, with a smaller motor this time.

Sam
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I like these kinds of fat, squat, high-drag rockets and low-and-slow flights. It reminds me of a Warlock or Doorknob. Maybe I'm a "right coast rocketeer" at heart. But I'm a Californian and fly with LUNAR and TCC too. Despite my right coast rocketry leanings, I'm sticking with the left coast.

I've been told that when the snow thaws in Boston, the sidewalks are littered with the preserved dog turds that have accumulated in the frozen snow banks for the entire winter --- months of poop revealed in a day or two --- and that sends lots of folks returning to wherever they came from. See you in Spring!
 
URRG's field is immense. Yes, there are trees in certain areas, but as long as you aim forward, you have toms of clear space.

MDRA's summer field is a sod farm, and it is much smaller than the winter field. The winter field is a mile and a quarter straight out. I rarely see rockets get lost at our launches, and if they come down in a tree, there are experienced guys with equipment to help you recover.
 
OK. Bait taken. You were crazy to move to the right coast.

I don't know if he was crazy but he can't expect his rocketry activites to even compare to what he had in N. Cal./ Nev. I am an east coast transplant (originally from NJ) and now live in the Bay Area. I lost all my rockets as a kid to trees when flying in NJ. I have longings from time to time to move back east (I miss family, friends, NYC, and a decent pastrami sandwich) but rocketry is one thing I'd sure miss if I moved back. No disrespect to east coast rocketeers, but you're just not going to find something comparable to Snow Ranch or Black Rock in MA.
 
Not undersized. Just the right size.

No disrespect meant, I am happy to fly with you guys. However, I was finding it hard to keep a rocket on the field if I popped the main over 1500 ft. Great if you are doing dual deploy, but not what I am used to.
 
Some of the Northeast High Power Rocketry Clubs and their Waiver Altitudes and driving times from Boston

1. Tripoli Cherryfield, ME, 25+ KFT MSL, L3+, 5.5 hours from Boston
2. URRG, Potter, NY, 24 KFT MSL, L3+, 6.5 hours from Boston
3. MDRA, Price, MD, 17 KFT MSL, L3+, 7 hours from Boston
4. MMMSC, Berwick, ME, 10 KFT MSL, L3, 1.3 hours from Boston
5. CTRA-NARCONN, Cobleskill, NY, 7.5 KFT AGL, L2, 3.3 hours from Boston
6. CMASS, Amesbury, MA, 5 KFT MSL, L2, 0.7 hours from Boston
7. METRA, Pine Island, NY, 4.5 KFT MSL, L3, 4 hours from Boston

Bob
 
No disrespect meant, I am happy to fly with you guys. However, I was finding it hard to keep a rocket on the field if I popped the main over 1500 ft. Great if you are doing dual deploy, but not what I am used to.
In the Northeast, you're near sea level so you can pop the main at 500'-700' AGL and have plenty of reserve for a soft landing.

Bob
 
No disrespect meant, I am happy to fly with you guys. However, I was finding it hard to keep a rocket on the field if I popped the main over 1500 ft. Great if you are doing dual deploy, but not what I am used to.

It takes a different set of skills and some luck to fly in the northeast. That's what makes it fun.
 
At MDRA's fall/spring field, you should be good to 10k and still be able to land it on the field under moderate winds. Up to 15 k is doable depending on wind speed and direction, but you definitely risk going of the property into trees. The LCO will limit the altitude if the winds are blowing in an unfavorable direction.

URRG's field in Potter NY is pretty vast for an east coast field with a call-in to the low 20 k ft range, but again not without risk. The field sits in kind of a bowl with surrounding trees.

If you are doing a minimum diameter M, even a 3 inch baby M could exceed the waiver at URRG.
 
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I don't know if he was crazy but he can't expect his rocketry activites to even compare to what he had in N. Cal./ Nev. I am an east coast transplant (originally from NJ) and now live in the Bay Area. I lost all my rockets as a kid to trees when flying in NJ. I have longings from time to time to move back east (I miss family, friends, NYC, and a decent pastrami sandwich) but rocketry is one thing I'd sure miss if I moved back. No disrespect to east coast rocketeers, but you're just not going to find something comparable to Snow Ranch or Black Rock in MA.

Oh man, I had the same experience...grew up in NJ, my regular field was a middle school field with 2 baseball fields (end to end) and a football field adjoining...surrounded by Charlie Brown kite-eating trees.

I could easily recover anything with a B-engine, but with C-engines you were taking chances with lighter rockets, and forget about a D-engine. I still remember risking my Goblin on a "calm day", and losing it, with a D-engine, even though it had a streamer.

Now that I'm in CA, I'm ready to (after dealing with the CA craziness) launch some higher power rockets AND get them back!
 
Good luck with the move and nice choice on a rocket. My 7.5" Thumper is almost always on the fly list when I go out. One thing you may notice out East are the softer landings, No more concrete hard playa landings

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I am finally beginning the build (yes, this was supposed to be a build thread). For the first step I attached a U bolt to the forward centering ring and to the 6" ring that goes in the nose cone. I then made them permanent by gluing the threads with JB weld.

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I decided that I wanted the fins to be glassed, for durability (I want it to survive everyday handling and some hard landings). Because I am not worried about the fins staying in the rocket (due to the foam and fillets I will use later), I decided to glass the exposed part of the fins. This also gave me a chance to try a new technique, vacuum bagging using "space bags".

First, lets mask off the fins root edge:
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Next, lets cut some fiberglass cloth, peel ply, and batting:
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I'm using west system with the slow hardener. I'll be applying the resin with a chip brush.
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2 layers of glass, then some peel ply on top. Next a layer of batting over the peel ply.
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I secured the batting using tape, flipped it over, and glassed the other side the same way.
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Now, I slide it into my space bag (making sure everything is still in place) and use a regular household vacuum to suck the air out.
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It all worked fairly well. Probably not quite as good as a real vacuum pump, but much cheaper and easier. The vacuum held until the epoxy was cured. I pulled the fin out after about 8 hours. The epoxy was not yet rock hard, but it wasn't going anywhere. This let me trim the excess off with an hobby knife.
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Next repeat 3 more times....
 
While the fins were curing, I also glued the top centering ring to the motor mount and the 6" ring in the nose cone.
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I haven't made much progress, but I did get the forward centering ring attached as well as the threaded inserts for the aft retainer. I also got to Katz's for some pastrami.

Sam

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