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  1. #91
    Join Date
    8th October 2014
    Location
    Mesa,Az
    Posts
    687
    Quote Originally Posted by kweaver View Post
    Short battery answer.
    "Always use fresh, known, new battery for successful deploy."
    At a recent launch a long time flyer, had just bought 2 "new Duracell batteries" Date Code 2018, at Walgreens an neither worked.
    Post flight testing showed, 6.2v and 4.8v
    It is not just voltage which is a vey poor indication of battery condition.
    As important or even more in our usage is the stored capacity (firing current available for how long!) in auto parlay cranking amps.[
    On TRF and elsewhere, there are several discussions that go into more detail.
    Very good points Ken. How do we get the stored capacity of a given 9v battery for example? And how long does it take to recover in a DD function for that second firing of the deployment charge ? Or for dual air starts etc..?


  2. #92
    Join Date
    8th October 2014
    Location
    Mesa,Az
    Posts
    687
    Sorry *************lost all personal pics to this thread to date***


  3. #93
    Join Date
    8th October 2014
    Location
    Mesa,Az
    Posts
    687
    Right on.. got some 1010 rail buttons installed on this MIRAGE. The main chute deployment system is working great. Ive added additional shock cord on both apogee motor ejection chutes and the main chute (deployed via missile works RRC2+) also beefed up the fins a bit with some wood strips-epoxy and CA. getting ready for NARAM57 and the MIRAGE is going on its first HP flight - Aerotech H135W dms. it will weigh 50.8oz at lift off. 2000ft and 300mph prediction. Pics show separation points-rail buttons (yes launch lugs also) fin work and av bay area. The rocket is showing signs of a lot of use. Its been a fun rocket and has been thru a number of flights and mods. We will see what the future holds for this MIRAGE after NARAM57.
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    Last edited by crazyed; 28th May 2015 at 04:31 AM.
    LOC Graduator
    Level 1 Aerotech Mirage H135W
    Level 2 J285Madcow AGM PIKE-33 Standard 4"

  4. #94
    Join Date
    8th October 2014
    Location
    Mesa,Az
    Posts
    687
    And another great flight logged for the Mirage DD...At NARAM 57 it will get the H135
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    Last edited by crazyed; 30th August 2015 at 03:32 AM.
    LOC Graduator
    Level 1 Aerotech Mirage H135W
    Level 2 J285Madcow AGM PIKE-33 Standard 4"

  5. #95
    Join Date
    17th May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    178
    Well Ed, I finally had a clear head to attempt this.
    The short answer, in my opinion, there is no short answer, it depends on several factors including battery chemistry, discharge rate, ambient temperate, and how long and under what conditions they were stored, to name a few.
    The best general solution is to know where you are buying the batteries from and your past experience with them.
    Major shows and productions often get their batteries directly from the factory or a known distributor, that guarantees freshness.
    That said I would not trust most retail outlets (Walgreens, Target, Walmart, Fry's etc.)without having several random destructive load tests runs.
    I personally buy my batteries for critical applications at one of the two electronic stores in town, that I have dealt with over the years, questioning their storage and arrival dates from where of the batteries I am considering.
    In my personal experience that is the only way to have a reasonable chance of freshness and even that is not 100%.
    If you wish to read primers on the subject you can check out these links.
    The above is oversimplified and many would say overly cautious.
    Each to their own beliefs.
    Trust this helps.
    http://www.powerstream.com/9V-Alkaline-tests.htm
    http://batteryuniversity.com/
    http://www.medicbatteries.com/batter...on-center.html
    Ken Weaver
    vid2u@aol.com

  6. #96
    Join Date
    8th October 2014
    Location
    Mesa,Az
    Posts
    687
    Quote Originally Posted by kweaver View Post
    Well Ed, I finally had a clear head to attempt this.
    The short answer, in my opinion, there is no short answer, it depends on several factors including battery chemistry, discharge rate, ambient temperate, and how long and under what conditions they were stored, to name a few.
    The best general solution is to know where you are buying the batteries from and your past experience with them.
    Major shows and productions often get their batteries directly from the factory or a known distributor, that guarantees freshness.
    That said I would not trust most retail outlets (Walgreens, Target, Walmart, Fry's etc.)without having several random destructive load tests runs.
    I personally buy my batteries for critical applications at one of the two electronic stores in town, that I have dealt with over the years, questioning their storage and arrival dates from where of the batteries I am considering.
    In my personal experience that is the only way to have a reasonable chance of freshness and even that is not 100%.
    If you wish to read primers on the subject you can check out these links.
    The above is oversimplified and many would say overly cautious.
    Each to their own beliefs.
    Trust this helps.
    http://www.powerstream.com/9V-Alkaline-tests.htm
    http://batteryuniversity.com/
    http://www.medicbatteries.com/batter...on-center.html
    Yes . Ive noticed and seen first hand how the batteries in these stores are *not* rotated either on the shelf or in the backroom storage area. Sometimes stored outside in a storage container in the summer time, in Phx.

    On a lighter note, I now have 3-1010 rail buttons on my MIRAGE.
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    LOC Graduator
    Level 1 Aerotech Mirage H135W
    Level 2 J285Madcow AGM PIKE-33 Standard 4"

  7. #97
    Join Date
    8th October 2014
    Location
    Mesa,Az
    Posts
    687
    The Mirage gave a great flight on the A/T H135W-10-dms.(NARAM) Although I will say "If think you might take it from mid to high, build right the first time so there is no second guessing. Leave the baffle out(or get a longer 29mmt) for the I motors and you will want to use after you see how great it does on an H. Blow an after market chute(similar to the GFORCE stock chute in size and material) . Rail buttons. Use thicker/longer shock cord . You can still stuff it all(dog barf too) and maintain the stock deployment at the rear section to maintain good CG to CP ratio. The Mirage makes a great flyer G or H and It was great to see that bird at 1700'."
    LOC Graduator
    Level 1 Aerotech Mirage H135W
    Level 2 J285Madcow AGM PIKE-33 Standard 4"

  8. #98
    Join Date
    20th April 2013
    Posts
    188
    I know I am coming late to this thread.

    Concerning the battery failure. I know the Missile Works RRC2 minis (I have several) have a battery alarm lockout. Meaning if the battery is not up to snuff when you turn everything on, it emits an alarm and will not arm. I use this option ALL the time. I wonder if other manufactures have something similar to prevent bad batteries from leaving the pad. I also fly my batteries no more then five times. Then they go to other applications like smoke detectors and the like.

    Nice rocket by the way!
    Andrew K.
    TRA-Level 2

    "Remember-When going faster than light.....NO left or right!"

  9. #99
    Join Date
    8th October 2014
    Location
    Mesa,Az
    Posts
    687
    Quote Originally Posted by AKVP View Post
    I know I am coming late to this thread.

    Concerning the battery failure. I know the Missile Works RRC2 minis (I have several) have a battery alarm lockout. Meaning if the battery is not up to snuff when you turn everything on, it emits an alarm and will not arm. I use this option ALL the time. I wonder if other manufactures have something similar to prevent bad batteries from leaving the pad. I also fly my batteries no more then five times. Then they go to other applications like smoke detectors and the like.

    Nice rocket by the way!
    Ive used mine down to 8.7v. but only for single deploy and only when off on my own... At a club launch with family and kiddies(younger rocketeers) running around-I use a new one. Like you, when they get low, they retire to other home uses.
    LOC Graduator
    Level 1 Aerotech Mirage H135W
    Level 2 J285Madcow AGM PIKE-33 Standard 4"

  10. #100
    Join Date
    8th October 2014
    Location
    Mesa,Az
    Posts
    687
    This rocket takes a beating and keeps on flying/ Level 1 done. Ive had 2 separations so far hopefully no more. But each time no damage to the rocke / fin can and airframes came in flat- once from 1200ft, the other from 1600ft. Some pics below that dropped out previously. Trying out a G138T-14A next. It still reaches 850ft on a G64 and G76 with all the added weight.
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    LOC Graduator
    Level 1 Aerotech Mirage H135W
    Level 2 J285Madcow AGM PIKE-33 Standard 4"

  11. #101
    Join Date
    20th February 2009
    Location
    Cayuga, Indiana
    Posts
    12,886
    I loved my Mirage before its demise. I have another in box -- need to consider getting started on it.
    L3, TRA #11847
    Tripoli Indiana #132
    Tripoli Central Illinois #59
    Central Illinois Aerospace (NAR) #527
    Chicago Rocket Mafia, "Big Bucks" Dixon
    ___________________________________

    Quiet little voices creep into my head. -- We Were Promised Jetpacks

  12. #102
    Join Date
    8th October 2014
    Location
    Mesa,Az
    Posts
    687
    The 2 separations I had were ..parachute lines burnt thru . and an early ejection breaking the shock cord. I wish I had left room for an I205 when I built this one but it is a lot of fun and a lot of 29mm motor options in the F-G-H class
    LOC Graduator
    Level 1 Aerotech Mirage H135W
    Level 2 J285Madcow AGM PIKE-33 Standard 4"

  13. #103
    Join Date
    6th December 2013
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    2,239
    How far do you think it sticks out with an I205? If it's only a couple of inches I bet you would be fine; of course confirm the cp/cg prior to flight. I helped a flyer with an Aerotech G Force fly an G75J which uses the 29-180 hardware. I don't recall exactly but it must have had a hook or block in the MMT. The casing didn't stick out that far and the cp/cg was fine and it flew great.

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  14. #104
    Join Date
    8th October 2014
    Location
    Mesa,Az
    Posts
    687
    I would have to friction fit the 205..and don't really want to do that. And that's okay..this Mirage is flying great on the H motors. But building a Mirage for I power is a consideration for a future build. I didn't think that far ahead thinking an H 180 or 220 would be its limit. LOL. not the case. Anyway here's another Mirage on H180 pic from a couple weeks ago at our midweek work/fly launch in Tucson AZ.
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    LOC Graduator
    Level 1 Aerotech Mirage H135W
    Level 2 J285Madcow AGM PIKE-33 Standard 4"

  15. #105
    Join Date
    1st July 2015
    Location
    British Columbia Canada
    Posts
    75
    Great thread. Just read the whole thing and now i want to get a mirage and try the dual deploy with it.

  16. #106
    Join Date
    8th October 2014
    Location
    Mesa,Az
    Posts
    687
    Quote Originally Posted by highflyer1968 View Post
    Great thread. Just read the whole thing and now i want to get a mirage and try the dual deploy with it.
    This is a favorite rocket of mine. It handles the H180 nicely. A perfect flyer and flies straight up every time even in a good breeze. I fly it with DD first flight of the day then move the main chute to the drogue shock cord(with drogue chute) for twin main motor ejection recovery for the next flight. For a more proffesionaly done bay. Use something like the missile works sled. With battery holder. Or at least a battery holder. That battery is subject to a lot of g force on lift off. It disconnected once on me because it wasn't secured properly. No damage. Here's a pick of the twin chute motor eject recovery(zoom in to see) and the altimeter (missile works RRC2+)on a sled w/battery holder
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    LOC Graduator
    Level 1 Aerotech Mirage H135W
    Level 2 J285Madcow AGM PIKE-33 Standard 4"

  17. #107
    Join Date
    8th October 2014
    Location
    Mesa,Az
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    687
    There are a few threads dealing with modifications to fly these mid power rockets for cert 1 H and I motors. I would say the mirage has done very well as others do. But DD is almost a must. The mid power rockets are generally light for H or I power. If you don't have DD be prepared to walk. Which is fine for me but if you are going to certify, your rocket may drift out of the launch site area. Below is a pic of my Aerotech Mirage getting ready to fly on an H180 at Desert Heat. Then a pic of the launch site way back there is the flight line. I barely came in on the launch site and there was 7 mph breeze ground level. No DD on this flight. With DD it comes in very close to the line.
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    LOC Graduator
    Level 1 Aerotech Mirage H135W
    Level 2 J285Madcow AGM PIKE-33 Standard 4"

  18. #108
    Join Date
    8th October 2014
    Location
    Mesa,Az
    Posts
    687
    My mid power Mirage ,,modified for hi power and and dual deploy is still flying strong- straight and safe on G to H power motors...G64-7W G138-7T G75-9J and H180-10W are my favorite motors for this straight flying rocket. The dual deploy realy isnt needed as on an H it tops out at 1700ft...due to its weight. But good experience learning about DD on this rocket.

    LOC Graduator
    Level 1 Aerotech Mirage H135W
    Level 2 J285Madcow AGM PIKE-33 Standard 4"

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