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  1. #61
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    8th October 2014
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    Mesa,Az
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    Quote Originally Posted by soopirV View Post
    Indeed it is- mine would weathercock pretty easily. Mantis launch pad was barely enough to hold it though. Poor thing didn't survive long enough to see rail buttons.
    Dang,,, I want a nice straight up launch. Do you think a G64 and no wind will help that? Im sure hoping so.


  2. #62
    Join Date
    19th January 2009
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    San Diego, CA
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    Nice Mirage paint scheme crazyed.
    I think the AeroTech Mirage is a good looking model but I am a bit biased.

    One thing to keep in mind is that the plastic baffle/shock cord anchor part is molded out of styrene plastic that is not durable when exposed to direct heat, i.e ejection charge. The cooling mesh absorbs the heat. I recommend that you recover the rocket as quickly as possible and remove the motor casing. Allow air to flow through the motor mount/tube and cool down the plastic before another flight.

    Do not connect the two components of the Mirage together for recovery. They are designed to descend seperately. Do pack the parachutes according to the instructions with the upper section parachute installed first followed by the lower section parachute. This way the upper section of the rocket will pull out both parachutes at ejection.

    The Mirage will handle many 29mm 'H' motors.

    I have only flown my Mirage (Stock build) with AeroTech G64-7W RMS and G40-4W single use motors. Always a good, straight flight.

    Here's pictures of my Mirage flown at NARAM-56 this past August with an AeroTech G40-4W motor:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Have a good flight with your Mirage!

    Bob

  3. #63
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    8th October 2014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Initiator001 View Post
    Nice Mirage paint scheme crazyed.
    I think the AeroTech Mirage is a good looking model but I am a bit biased.

    One thing to keep in mind is that the plastic baffle/shock cord anchor part is molded out of styrene plastic that is not durable when exposed to direct heat, i.e ejection charge. The cooling mesh absorbs the heat. I recommend that you recover the rocket as quickly as possible and remove the motor casing. Allow air to flow through the motor mount/tube and cool down the plastic before another flight.

    Do not connect the two components of the Mirage together for recovery. They are designed to descend seperately. Do pack the parachutes according to the instructions with the upper section parachute installed first followed by the lower section parachute. This way the upper section of the rocket will pull out both parachutes at ejection.

    The Mirage will handle many 29mm 'H' motors.

    I have only flown my Mirage (Stock build) with AeroTech G64-7W RMS and G40-4W single use motors. Always a good, straight flight.

    Here's pictures of my Mirage flown at NARAM-56 this past August with an AeroTech G40-4W motor:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Have a good flight with your Mirage!
    Thanyou kindly,,those are some cool pics there.
    And I do look forward to the 1st launch. Tuesday the 6th. F52T then G64W.
    Last edited by crazyed; 5th January 2015 at 04:27 AM.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    1st September 2010
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    Tucson, AZ
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyed View Post
    Dang,,, I want a nice straight up launch. Do you think a G64 and no wind will help that? Im sure hoping so.
    Ed- G64 or G76 should definitely give this bird the get-up and go it needs- wind above 10-15 may be too much to claim a straight flight, but certainly won't result in a bad one. Now that I know your distinctive paint job, I'll try to find you on the flight line.
    NAR 96681
    L1 - May 29, 2014 LOC Norad ProMax, H120
    L2 - Feb 21, 2015 Fiberglassed Madcow Frenzy, J280

  5. #65
    Join Date
    13th December 2009
    Location
    Union, OH
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    4,568
    Quote Originally Posted by soopirV View Post
    Ed- G64 or G76 should definitely give this bird the get-up and go it needs- wind above 10-15 may be too much to claim a straight flight, but certainly won't result in a bad one. Now that I know your distinctive paint job, I'll try to find you on the flight line.
    G77 and G79...LOVE those two loads...they really make my 2" AMRAAM from PML boogie...should be the same in the Mirage...

  6. #66
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    8th October 2014
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    Mesa,Az
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    AWESOME!!!! We had a great launch today-Sort of. I know..Its Tuesday but we fly when we can. The MIRAGE had a great flight on the Aerotech G64-7W. I got no pics on my camera but I have this 1 pic of launch I took off another camera(phone) and other misc. pics. There will be more pics of the actual launch sent to me when they get downloaded and I will post when I can. Heres what I have. WE HAD A MISHAP With the 4-29SS. pics and info on new thread -SHOULD HAVE BEEN AN AWESOME LAUNCH, BUT?
    Attachment 250850Attachment 250851Attachment 250852Attachment 250853

  7. #67
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    8th October 2014
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    Mesa,Az
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    A little late but .. It has arrived.. Now how do I make this Mirage DUAL DEPLOY ?Attachment 251378

  8. #68
    Join Date
    19th January 2009
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    Tucson, Az
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    I would start with a sled that can be used with multiple rockets if needed.

    http://www.missileworks.com/store/#!...tegory=9045099
    Last edited by terryg; 12th January 2015 at 10:59 AM.
    more rockets then cents

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by terryg View Post
    I would start with a sled that can be used with multiple rockets if needed.

    http://www.missileworks.com/store/#!...tegory=9045099
    Thank you for the link Terry. I didnt know MW had that stuff also. I was about to mount the electronics in a 24mm tube. But that av bay with the switch and battery mount seems the way to go. It should help make up a great DD system.

  10. #70
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    8th October 2014
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    Mesa,Az
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    So the problem I was having was that I had already super glued the bottom airframe coupler in by accident when I attached the lug. (it soaked thru the frame to the coupler) but not enough to keep me from being able to bust it loose with a good smack on the floor. No damage. The other coupler and nose cone I had only friction fit for the first flight. (thinking also i might need the parts free for future DD). I do tend to do the Mcgyver thing and use what I have at hand to save cash and time. Of coarse this could end up not working but then again- I think it will. I want to learn this DD thing from the ground up- Using rocket supplies I have.**** I do want any advise on basic DD procedure.*****
    1)My plan is to first use the motor ejection for the drogue chute deployment -separation where the rocket normally separates (Between the lower 2 airframe sections)
    2)The electronics mounted in a 24mm tube with vent holes per instructions inside the coupler of the 2 lower airframe sections, and isolated from any charge gases.
    3) shock cord mounted inside the bottom of the second airframe section and also mounted to the top section of the air frame. Main deployment at 300' and between the top section and 2nd airframe section.
    4) use the coupler for the top and middle(2nd)section for a bulkhead.
    5) the charge for the deployment will be in the bottom of the middle airframe section
    6) the coupler between the lower and middle sections that house the electronics will be attached to the middle airframe with 3-4 screws. along with 3 vent holes for air sampling per instructions for the RRC2+
    7) the screw holes and vent holes will be beefed up a bit by applying CA the holes. To keep the holes from degrading.
    Attachment 251651Attachment 251652

  11. #71
    Join Date
    20th January 2009
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    British Columbia, Canada
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    798
    Quote Originally Posted by dixontj93060 View Post
    I love the Mirage. Built mine dual deploy and set up for hybrids. Unfortunately, never got to fly a hybrid before this:

    Attachment 248994

    I still have another kit in the pile I plan to build though as a replacement.
    I did that to mine too. 8-( Sadly, I was sort of warned that there might not be enough powder to eject the chutes. Oy. He was right. I bought another kit with the plans to build it for my Rattworks I90. Still hasn't happened. Some day.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len B View Post
    I did that to mine too. 8-( Sadly, I was sort of warned that there might not be enough powder to eject the chutes. Oy. He was right. I bought another kit with the plans to build it for my Rattworks I90. Still hasn't happened. Some day.
    Sorry to hear that.. Good luck on the next one!

  13. #73
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    And here is a little more info and some more pics. 1 of the fit of the RRC2+ in the 24mm tube. perfect fit.
    And also the sections of deployment . Im using the supplied smaller chute from the Mirage kit for the drogue chute with an added 8' section of shock cord. I might add more. then the second deployment section shown with a huge black chute I had used on my G-FORCE and was awesome for a slow recovery. should be great for this application also adding alot of extra shock cord to the second section . Adding the extra weight (chute-shock cord-electronics) will probably keep the rocket at 1,000ft on a G64. Perfect i think for a first timer DD project.
    Attachment 251653Attachment 251654Attachment 251655Attachment 251656

  14. #74
    Join Date
    20th January 2009
    Location
    British Columbia, Canada
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    798
    Nice build thread and really nice looking build. I'm looking forward to your flight report and photos.

  15. #75
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    19th January 2009
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    Tucson, Az
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    In my opinion 1000 ft is too low for a full fledged dual deploy. The apogee event will probably happen at ~950 ft or lower and the main will deploy at 600 ft or so which is awfully close together. I would recommend doing the low altitude flights with apogee only deploy of the main to get used to the setup of the electronics, the charges, and the packing of the chutes. When you stick an H180W in it and get it up to 1900 ft (or an I200 at 2700 ft) then full deploy makes sense. The elastic shock cord is probably not the best choice since it will be exposed directly to the black powder charge (not protected by the stainless steel baffle like in the stock arrangement). Hobbylinc has loc bulkhead plates and couplers if you want to make a do it yourself version of a traditional style ebay (you can order parts and reloads at the same time).

    http://shop.locprecision.com/product...8&categoryId=9

    http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/loc/locba256.htm

    http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/loc/loctc256.htm
    Last edited by terryg; 15th January 2015 at 03:24 AM.
    more rockets then cents

  16. #76
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    8th October 2014
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    Mesa,Az
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    [QUOTE=terryg;1409105]In my opinion 1000 ft is too low for a full fledged dual deploy. The apogee event will probably happen at ~950 ft or lower and the main will deploy at 600 ft or so which is awfully close together. I would recommend doing the low altitude flights with apogee only deploy of the main to get used to the setup of the electronics, the charges, and the packing of the chutes. When you stick an H180W in it and get it up to 1900 ft (or an I200 at 2700 ft) then full deploy makes sense. The elastic shock cord is probably not the best choice since it will be exposed directly to the black powder charge (not protected by the stainless steel baffle like in the stock arrangement). Hobbylinc has loc bulkhead plates and couplers if you want to make a do it yourself version of a traditional style ebay (you can order parts and reloads at the same time).

    Great advice terry. I wondered if the altitude might be too low. And exposure to the shock cord is another item to deal with and thanks for the heads up. Here are a couple pics of what i had thought of doing with the electronics. The battery would be mounted to the inside of the coupler as well. The 24mm mount would be epoxied to the bulkhead inside the coupler tube.
    [ATTACH=CONFIG]251671[/A
    Last edited by crazyed; 26th January 2015 at 06:32 AM.

  17. #77
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    8th October 2014
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    Mesa,Az
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    688
    Ordered up some of those Quest Q2G2 8" starters today for the DD charge. the pic in the previous post shows an Aerotech first fire igniter. The Missile Works Info says electric match or a low current motor starter like the Quest Q2G2, Im not sure what the difference in current draw or resistance is between the first fires and the Q2G2. But i will give the Quest a try.

  18. #78
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    8th October 2014
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    Mesa,Az
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    I was going to do the main deployment between the middle and top sections of the Mirage. I assembled and tack glued the EERC2+ bay in place. Couldnt figure out how to keep everything safe from the deployment charge. Thinking I had it all figured out in my head I had to see it in place and didnt like what i saw so its going to be a nose cone main deployment now. I can do this with the supplies I have on hand. I have looked at a few threads on DD and awesome they are and high quality workmanship. Also alot of excellent advice given. Taking it all in I am still doing this DD on the tightest of budgets. It can be done. Its kind of like old school 1990's work im doing here at best. But fun. Once I see I can do it. I will probably step up the quality on the DD for this or another rocket. Here are a couple more pics of the progress.
    Attachment 252027Attachment 252028Attachment 252029Attachment 252030Attachment 252031

  19. #79
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    8th October 2014
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    Looking good to have some metal on the rocket. I havnt had screws on a rocket since 1996 on my PML Aurora 4" (hybrid ready) with the piston ejection. Which I flew on a Aerotech J350 for a nice L2 cert. Yep, things sure have changed since.
    The bay is secure with electronics and a little shelf inside for the battery. Going to radio shack for a battery mount and clip this week if I cant find it out in the shed. The coupler supplied in the kit is the E bay with a hand cut bulk head on the forward end. Back end left open for servicing.Attachment 252218Attachment 252219

  20. #80
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    8th October 2014
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    It was a good day for some more work on the DD mods. Had a good ejection charge test using Pyrodex "P" powder.(a FFFG sub for BP) The first charge was way to much packed too tight. Second time I filled a red aerotech BP cap full (of pyrodex) with the starter end inside capped with masking tape and not packed. Excellent deployment. Got the Big black chute and 15' of shock cord mounted inside the upper airframe. Fresh alkaline 9v batteries and got familiar with the read outs of the RRC2+ and its continuity beeps and light signals. The weight is getting up there now noticably(triple the shock cord /double the chute weight/battery/electronics/bay weight) so the Aerotech G64 and G76 are are going to be its minimum impulse motors. An H180 is what this bird will need to see altitudes over 1000' and I look forward to that. As I also look forward to the main deployment at 300' and the chute bringing it home nice and slow on its first DD flight with the G64-W.
    I realize I previously said IMO BP is the best way to go for deployment charges . But dog gone it I cant find any so its going to be the substitute Pyrodex. It just seems like the BP gives a better gas expansion for pushing out the recovery system without as much "flame up". just my opinion and experience.
    Last edited by crazyed; 21st January 2015 at 08:26 AM.

  21. #81
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    And so I believe I have reached the final configuration for my Aerotech Mirage. Unless I change my mind again lol.. OOOPs yes one more thing. Today I will add a switch to the ERRC2+-on and off switchable outside the airframe. I wasnt going to use one but for club events it will be needed. I will post a pic of that later today. Here is where its at as of now. Also I am beginning to question the drogue. I may use a larger chute for this. I dont want a zipper when the main blows due to a too fast descent on the smaller drogue. With the additional weight the larger chute supplied with the kit could be the right drogue to use with the motor and altitude(low)
    Attachment 252487Attachment 252488Attachment 252489Attachment 252490Attachment 252491

  22. #82
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    8th October 2014
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    Attachment 253009LOL... Didnt make it to the radio shack for a 9v clip and switch on my day off so as I sat thinking about things I remembered the old days when we used a couple wires and a magnet to start our timers at launch. So I dug around the shed and found an old alarm clock with a battery back up. A 9v battery snap and wires I tore out.( I had saved it thinking I might use the LED's or other resisters or caps and so forth.) Hooked up the power and ran the wires out one of the vent holes. It works. I will arm the RRC2+ on the pad by twisting the two wires together and tape the them down. Yes the first flight or two we will be at our site. Going to be sure it all works before I bring it out to a club launch. Maybe do an upgrade or two like a real switch once I get familiar with the DD set up. I will post launch pics good or bad results. Feb 03 or Feb10 launch
    Last edited by crazyed; 26th January 2015 at 06:31 AM.

  23. #83
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    19th January 2009
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    Tucson, Az
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    Twist and tape is often more reliable then using a switch that is not up to the extremes of rocket flights.
    more rockets then cents

  24. #84
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    The Mirage flew great today. SARA mid week launch in Tucson--Awesome weather. The RRC2+ worked perfectly as advertised. Main deploy at 300' . Counted off altitude of 886' with the Aerotech G64-6W (7 drilled out to 6). Didnt catch it on camera/it was heads up on this so all eyes on the rocket/ but got a pic of after flight and the blown main deploy charge. Look at that blue sky. That was cool to see that big black chute blow out at 300'/I was worried I admit. My first DD and the simplicity of the RCC2+. I went over every thing many times and had it dialed in. Now after I burn another G64-7 and a G76-7G in this bird,its getting a taste of H class motors.
    Attachment 254509Attachment 254510
    Last edited by crazyed; 11th February 2015 at 03:51 PM.

  25. #85
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    And finally a video of the Mirage dual deploy.300'(main) watch full screen to see deployments
    Aerothech G64-7W apogee 886' /RRC2+(MissleWorks) it works A little wobble at lift off. Not enough impulse? What do you think? Looks like maybe spin due to fin alignment ?
    Last edited by crazyed; 21st February 2015 at 05:50 AM.

  26. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Len B View Post
    Nice build thread and really nice looking build. I'm looking forward to your flight report and photos.
    Thanks and doggone -it all worked great. Next time I will use more"modern" techniques as the re-prep time on this set up is a bit long(but worth it) Im very happy with the results on this-my first DD. Next flight I will use the 500' main deploy so we can enjoy a slower return.

  27. #87
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    I am really liking this Mirage. The Dual Deployment is awesome. Flew today(yes another weekday launch). G76-7G. the RRC2+ indicated 970ft. I used the 500' main deploy selection and it worked great. Got to see the big chute with long shock cord to the main airframe-another long shock cord with drogue and fin can. Looking great up there. A few more like this then on to H power. Another point to mention--Economax F44-8W good for the A/T Barracuda when built as instructed. Around 1000' approx.

  28. #88
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    Got fresh supply of DD ejection lighters from WildMan Rocketry today. That is some fast service right there. They got themselves another customer. DD Mirage next week Yeeeee Haaaaa
    EDIT******
    I did a test with the lighters and they work. When used with the RRC2+ by MissileWorks- The 9volt alkaline battery I used measured 8.4V-(a little low) and it popped off the ejection lighter as it should under a vacuum test. Even with the under powered battery. I am confident in another fine DD next week.
    Last edited by crazyed; 4th March 2015 at 06:20 AM. Reason: add text

  29. #89
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    8th October 2014
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    Thinking I might use this rocket for L1 (re)certification. H180/H97 or H128

  30. #90
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    17th May 2010
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
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    178
    Short battery answer.
    "Always use fresh, known, new battery for successful deploy."
    At a recent launch a long time flyer, had just bought 2 "new Duracell batteries" Date Code 2018, at Walgreens an neither worked.
    Post flight testing showed, 6.2v and 4.8v
    It is not just voltage which is a vey poor indication of battery condition.
    As important or even more in our usage is the stored capacity (firing current available for how long!) in auto parlay cranking amps.[
    On TRF and elsewhere, there are several discussions that go into more detail.
    Quote Originally Posted by crazyed View Post
    Got fresh supply of DD ejection lighters from WildMan Rocketry today. That is some fast service right there. They got themselves another customer. DD Mirage next week Yeeeee Haaaaa
    EDIT******
    I did a test with the lighters and they work. When used with the RRC2+ by MissileWorks- The 9volt alkaline battery I used measured 8.4V-(a little low) and it popped off the ejection lighter as it should under a vacuum test. Even with the under powered battery. I am confident in another fine DD next week.

    Last edited by kweaver; 26th March 2015 at 10:32 PM. Reason: info update
    Ken Weaver
    vid2u@aol.com

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