Quad-copter camera folk - this is what I want to see...

More and more multi-copter video footage of launches seem to be happening. There are some pretty cool shots these days. That said, here's something that I'd like to see, but haven't yet: nice clear footage of apogee events. I think it would be really cool, and informative, to see drogue ejections "up close".

I fully realize that this would be challenging to do on a number of levels. But you LIKE a challenge, don't you? Let's put it out there and see who figures it out (while being safe and legal of course).




Please one other request - let's not turn this thread into yet another political rant about the evil librul govermint, okay?
thanks, s6

I think the real challenge will be to have the quad somewhere close to altitude where you could get good video. Still, I'd love to see something along those lines achieved.

I'm working on a 666mm quadcopter right now with an integrated GPS system. It can put into a position lock mode so the quad will stay at a certain altitude and position. I guess if you knew the expected altitude I could put it up above that altitude using my Telemetrum to measure the altitude and see what kind of video you can get. Will be interesting to try.

There are safety issues associated with getting a drone close to a rocket in flight.

If you're going to work on this, do it by using long lenses not by putting the drone in a spot where it can interfere with the rocket's flight or recovery.

Equally important, if you're going to fly a drone at a launch check with the Launch Director beforehand and discuss your plans with that individual. Make sure they're okay with what you plan to do.

-Kevin

troj said:

There are safety issues associated with getting a drone close to a rocket in flight.

If you're going to work on this, do it by using long lenses not by putting the drone in a spot where it can interfere with the rocket's flight or recovery.

Equally important, if you're going to fly a drone at a launch check with the Launch Director beforehand and discuss your plans with that individual. Make sure they're okay with what you plan to do.

-Kevin

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Yea I wouldn't even think about flying my $800 quad close to a rocket! A long lense would be required.

I believe drones are limited to 400 ft are they not?

Mightyrocketman said:

I believe drones are limited to 400 ft are they not?

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I don't believe so there are people on YouTube that go above the clouds. I myself have gone to 1000. There may be a limit on altitude by not quite sure.

Mightyrocketman said:

I believe drones are limited to 400 ft are they not?

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I looked it up a d it looks like the FAA does have a 400' limit on RC aircraft. However if you are flying it at a rocket launch I suspect you could fly as high as your waiver is at the site if you are comfortable with flying that high. As the FAA already knows that there are rockets flying higher then you would be going with the drone.

According to the AMA Safety code: A model aircraft is a non-human-carrying aircraft capable of sustained flight in the atmosphere. It may not exceed limitations of this code and is intended exclusively for sport, recreation, education and/or competition.
Not fly higher than approximately 400 feet above ground level within three (3) miles of an airport without notifying the airport operator.

I threw the definition in there because right now there is a huge urinary olympics going on with the FAA about what is a model "aircraft" and the whole drone thing. The AMA is trying its best to educate drone owners/flyers to do it legally and safely.

These are the AMA Safety Rules https://www.modelaircraft.org/files/105.pdf , a FAA Advisory concerning R/C AC operations dated 1981 https://www.modelaircraft.org/files/540-c.pdf and an AMA Advisory on Safe Operations https://www.modelaircraft.org/files/540-D.pdf .

It appears that the FAA recommended voluntary flight restrictions of 400' AGL for R/C AC operations as early as 1981 and the AMA requires spotters and visual contact with R/C AC when operations occur over 400' AGL. The FAA has claimed further restrictions in the intervening years but there has been little enforcement until recently due to operations of quadrotors in the vicinity of manned AC and airports, and in TFR zones for special events. Such operations have always been forbidden by both the FAA and the AMA.....but the violators are most likely ignorant of the FAA regulations and are not AMA members, and the actions of a few ignorant yahoos are making it difficult for the 99+% of the hobby R/C flyers who follow the rules and recommendations to enjoy the hobby without draconian flight restrictions.

Bob

Another observation - I absolutely understand anyone not wanting to fly their copter close to a rocket. Safety, damage to either craft, expense, etc. I certainly wouldn't do it myself. But I'm not a quad flyer and don't really know the mechanics of the whole thing either. I do know that I've seen video footage from some VERY hairy situations, and quite close to things that seemed pretty dangerous.

And then of course there's that footage from inside the fireworks. THAT guy would have no problem attempting this I bet - one measly rocket, that doesn't even explode?, no problem! I do know that many folks saw that footage and thought that the guy who shot it was an idiot, was reckless, etc. and I could absolutely see it that way. But again, I really don't know the mechanics of the whole thing, and my viewpoint could be from someone from outside who "doesn't get it".

I just know that seeing rocketry apogee deployments "up close" would be pretty cool.

s6

The FAA recommends that you stay under 400 feet. I don't feel comfortable flying my quadcopter higher than that even at a waivered launch.

During a group launch, I saw how high the rockets were going, so I was able to position the quad-copter just above that altitude. I caught one deployment up close (at about 2:40 in the video), but, unfortunately the rocket's 'chute did not open.

[video=youtube;CqapSYYEAaE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqapSYYEAaE[/video]

As for using a "Long Lens." You'd need a really large 'copter to carry anything more than a GoPro-like camera. There are such beasts, but they are definitely out of my price range.

-- Roger

Please understand that I'm NOT advocating that anyone does anything stupid, illegal, dangerous, etc.

I realize that my viewpoint could very well be analogous to say, someone from "outside" of rocketry not understanding why it would be a bad idea to "shoot some rockets" horizontally at a target. Educate me - is what I'm suggesting along those lines?

s6

Well here is my one and only attempt at it. There is one flight not shown after these that was unstable and came very close to taking my Hex out. That's the last time I try that lol.

[video=youtube_share;TjMNljYfatA]https://youtu.be/TjMNljYfatA?list=UUBURF3J1jkdtErs3_3Qce8A[/video]

Don't be offended by the comments about safety. It's something we take seriously and is a part of many discussions here. It's important to consider safety issues, even very remote ones, because it is that kind of thinking that keeps our hobby safe and legal.

-- Roger

Roger,
I'm not at all offended. Honestly, I would EXPECT to get a bit more, shall we say..."strident opionions". I'm simply trying to gauge where my thinking is at on this in the greater scheme of things. I totally understand taking safety seriously - for rocketry AND multicopter flying.

thanks for everyone's input.
s6

When drones are outlawed, only outlaws will have drones...

LOL Later! OL JR

The 400' altitude limit only applies if you are within 3 miles of an airport. It would be very hard for the AMA to limit all flight to that altitude. Many of their events (IMAC, pattern, soaring) routinely double that height.

Use common sense should be the rule. Unfortunately common sense isn't very common anymore.

ChrisAttebery said:

The 400' altitude limit only applies if you are within 3 miles of an airport. It would be very hard for the AMA to limit all flight to that altitude. Many of their events (IMAC, pattern, soaring) routinely double that height.

Use common sense should be the rule. Unfortunately common sense isn't very common anymore.

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Good to know.

stealth6 said:

Another observation - I absolutely understand anyone not wanting to fly their copter close to a rocket. Safety, damage to either craft, expense, etc. I certainly wouldn't do it myself. But I'm not a quad flyer and don't really know the mechanics of the whole thing either. I do know that I've seen video footage from some VERY hairy situations, and quite close to things that seemed pretty dangerous.

And then of course there's that footage from inside the fireworks. THAT guy would have no problem attempting this I bet - one measly rocket, that doesn't even explode?, no problem! I do know that many folks saw that footage and thought that the guy who shot it was an idiot, was reckless, etc. and I could absolutely see it that way. But again, I really don't know the mechanics of the whole thing, and my viewpoint could be from someone from outside who "doesn't get it".

I just know that seeing rocketry apogee deployments "up close" would be pretty cool.

s6

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Thel issues of flying a quadrotor through a public commercial fireworks display are two-fold.

1. The FAA would have issued a TRF for a public fireworks event in a populated city area which he violated.

2. If a firework hit the quadrotor and was deflected into the spectators or the launch barge, bad things could happen.....hence the TFR......

The OP states that it would be cool to get an up-close look at deployment, but I doubt he has done the math to see if it is possible from an unstabilized quad without an auto tracking system, or interestingly if it is much easier to get the same apparent view from the ground. Let's look at the problem in some detail and then the readers can decide.

In 3D space, where might a rocket actually be located on planned launch to 1000' AGL. Considering all possibilities, I'll postulate it could be anywhere in a 100' radius sphere. This implies that the FOV of my camera must encompass the projected cross-sectional area of the rocket trajectory and that requires a minimum separation distance so the camera FOV matches the CEP of the rocket. As the diameter of the circle would be about 200', the quad probably wants to be 200' or so from the center of the probability sphere, both to maintain a safe distance and to capture the apogee event within the FOV of the camera. A 1080P digital video camera with an aspect ratio of 3:2 with the best possible FOV will have a spatial resolution of 1KP/200' or 5 pixels per linear foot which is not very good. You could zoom in closer, but unless you have a stabilized quad with a gimbaled camera mount and a two man flight crew consisting of a pilot and a camera operator, your chances of closer tracking are very low.

I think a skilled videographer on the ground with a stabilized DSLR video camera could probably track the rocket to apogee and zoom in to at least x10 and possibly higher magnification and get a better DV from the ground than one can be obtained from an unstabilized camera in a normal quad at the apogee altitude.

Bob

If one wants to film the ejection of drogues, etc, this is possible without drone copters anyway-- just put cameras out on booms on the rocket itself, focusing on the forward section where the drogue will be ejected. Additional cameras on the shock cord or parachute can record the parachute inflation or the deployment out of the rocket itself...

More than one way to skin a cat...

Later! OL JR