SpaceX Falcon 9 historic landing thread (1st landing attempt & most recent missions)

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I think it's more an issue of the customers being willing enough to fly their payloads on a reused rocket. Some are clamoring for it (and some price break) others want a new rocket. The customers with the big HEAVY satellites going into Geostationary Transfer Orbits which do not leave enough fuel for a landing, causing an expendable launch, those are the most expensive satellites. Sure, they have launch insurance but the insurance companies would absolutely be charging lot more for a launch on a reused rocket right now, so some of the savings would be lost. And if they lost a satellite, insurance won't magically create a new satellite in a week and get them to the front of the line, they'd wait a year or two to launch a "Spare" satellite and not have the services of the original satellite for all that time (that was a major blow to the owners of the AMOS-6 satellite that was destroyed when its Falcon rocket blew up on the pad before a static firing).

So, SpaceX has to build a solid track record that reused boosters are as reliable as factory fresh boosters before all their customers will be comfortable with it, as well as the insurers.

If I was the owner of a big heavy com sat that my business needed to use SOON, and would put my business in big trouble if it was lost, I'd rather pay 70 million for a new rocket launch than 60-65 million for a reused rocket (extra insurance would offset a lot of the savings), based on where things are at this point in time. 5 years from now with a lot of reflown Falcons, probably a different story if the reused ones have a good record.

Cost of the legs and grid fins and other parts unique to a booster to land, definitely SOME savings there when left off for expendable flights. But nowhere near the cost of the price break (I say that not knowing what the price break may be or what the cost of those parts are but more likely a price break of several million, maybe 10 right now, vs landing equipment likely under 1 million).

No, I have rethought the above paragraph. It's wrong. It should be SpaceX that is paying for all of the landing related equipment on the landing flights, NOT the customer. Since the customer is not owning or leasing the Falcon (though one customer has said they do want to own or lease one to reuse!). SpaceX is providing a SERVICE, to put the customer's payload into the contracted orbit. The CUSTOMER should not be paying one penny for anything related to landing the rocket since that is not a service they contracted for, and the customer does not get any "kickback" in a rebate if the rocket does land safely (or if they did, such info has not been made public).

So, an expendable flight ought not get any discount for leaving off landing related parts, since no customer ought to be charged for that to begin with.

Indeed, all this time, what SpaceX has effectively been doing with the landing attempts, is hundreds of millions of dollars worth of "free" R&D flight tests, by "piggybacking" legs, grid fins and the other landing related parts on the flights that customers have paid for. So, SpaceX has spent many millions to do that, in vehicle hardware, R&D design, and infrastructure such as the ASDS barges and landing zones. But not having to pay a penny for LAUNCHING the landing test flights on the orbital Falcon missions (beyond the separate costs related to reuse). The only test flights they did have to pay for were the early "Grasshopper" and Falcon 9 (F9R Dev) takeoff, low altitude, and slow landing flights at McGregor, Texas, which ended years ago.

Also, not a lot of reused rockets that have been refurbished yet (at least one or two seem in limbo as to whether they were too damaged on super-hot re-entries to be practical to fly again). IIRC a refurbished one will flying in a few months but I do not know right now if that's for an expendable launch. I do know on the first Falcon Heavy launch.... whenever.... one of the side boosters will be reused, and of course they plan to RTLS both side boosters and land the center booster on an ASDS barge.
 
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Launch window still set for 7:20 PM EDT Monday.

Rollout to pad today:

Oro62dI.jpg


Webcast link (apparently only one, not two):

[video=youtube;ynMYE64IEKs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynMYE64IEKs[/video]
 
Launch still go with window opening at 7:20 PM EDT (Update - now listed as 7:21 EDT).

Little over an hour, as I post this. (Webcast should be streaming by 7:01 EDT)

See Webcast link above.

Presskit PDF file: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=42846.0;attach=1426806;sess=13478

Patch:

index.php


Photo of the second stage and shroud. The objects near the bottom of the shroud plug the vent holes to prevent contamination before launch. They are made out of foam, with forward facing recessed cups which the aerodynamic flow pulls off after launch to unplug the vent holes.

GxX5Vt0.jpg
 
Launch in about 5 minutes.

Good launch, good staging, 2nd stage still burning at T+ 5 minutes.

Shutdown of 2nd stage engine, in a good parking orbit.

Will restart it at T+27 minutes to complete the burn to inject it towards a Geostationary Transfer Orbit.

Second burn good, satellite separated from the 2nd stage.

I fully know why this launch had to be expendable. But, man, what a clear blue sky. I HOPE they have clear skies for the next launch, CRS-11, so its RTLS landing can be seen without any clouds getting in the way.
 
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Starting just after 28min, I wonder what the SpaceX crew is oooing and aaawing, followed eventually clapping about. Sounds like they were watching some other video feed, possibly a 1st stage splash down as right after the clapping mission control said stage one signal lost.

[video]https://youtu.be/ynMYE64IEKs?t=1673[/video]
 
Starting just after 28min, I wonder what the SpaceX crew is oooing and aaawing, followed eventually clapping about. Sounds like they were watching some other video feed, possibly a 1st stage splash down as right after the clapping mission control said stage one signal lost.

[video]https://youtu.be/ynMYE64IEKs?t=1673[/video]

I wonder it, despite not trying to land the first stage, if they were still trying to recover the fairing.
 
Starting just after 28min, I wonder what the SpaceX crew is oooing and aaawing, followed eventually clapping about. Sounds like they were watching some other video feed, possibly a 1st stage splash down as right after the clapping mission control said stage one signal lost.

[video]https://youtu.be/ynMYE64IEKs?t=1673[/video]

Yes, I thought there were two points that you could hear them become excited
but the reason wasn't apparent and no explanation was given.....
I was wondering what was happening...

Teddy
 
I was disappointed that they didn't have video feed of the satellite deployment. I hung around till the end (or, specifically, came back at the end) to see that. That made it a bit anti-climatic... :yawn:
 
I was disappointed that they didn't have video feed of the satellite deployment. I hung around till the end (or, specifically, came back at the end) to see that. That made it a bit anti-climatic... :yawn:

Ohhh yesss,,,
Me too...

Teddy
 
I've missed a lot here since I haven't been getting email Notifications.
I did read above George isn't going to active any longer, if I read it right.
Thank You So Much George for taking your time for us all.
I'm sure I speak for all of us when we I saw we are a better group of people for your efforts!
I copied and pasted the below from an Email I received.
Maybe this will help those enthusiastic enough to follow the launches.
It's only on VAFB, but I signed up for Emails on the Minute Man Launches.
In the mean time, I have some reading to catch up on, on this thread.


VANDENBERG AFB LAUNCH SCHEDULE

Launch
Time/Window
Date (PST/PDT) Vehicle Pad/Silo
-------- ----------------- ------------- --------

JUN 29 13:02 Falcon 9 SLC-4E
Vehicle will launch Iridium Next commercial communications satellites
11-20. This early afternoon launch could be visible to the unaided
eye from Santa Barbara, Ventura, and San Luis Obispo counties

JUL To be announced Falcon 9 SLC-4E
Vehicle will launch Taiwan's Formosat 5 satellite

AUG 14 To be announced Atlas V SLC-3E
Vehicle will launch the classified NROL-42 payload for the U.S.
National Reconnaissance Office. The Atlas V will use four solid rocket
motors.

AUG To be announced Falcon 9 SLC-4E
Vehicle will launch Iridium Next commercial communications satellites
21-30

SEP 21 02:47:03-02:48:06 Delta II SLC-2W
Vehicle will launch the JPSS-1 weather satellite. The Delta II will
use nine solid rocket motors. This early morning launch could be
visually impressive in Santa Barbara County and visible for hundreds
of miles

SEP To be announced Minotaur C SLC-576E
Vehicle will launch six SkySat earth observation satellites

OCT To be announced Falcon 9 SLC-4E
Vehicle will launch Iridium Next commercial communications satellites
31-40

DEC To be announced Falcon 9 SLC-4E
Vehicle will launch Iridium Next commercial communications satellites
41-50

DEC 20 To be announced Delta IV SLC-6
Vehicle will launch the NROL-47 payload for the U.S. National
Reconnaissance Office. The Delta IV will use two solid rocket motors

The above schedule is a composite of unclassified information
approved for public release from government, industry, and other
sources. It represents the Editor's best effort to produce a schedule,
but may disagree with other sources. Details on military launches are
withheld until they are approved for public release. For official
information regarding Vandenberg AFB activities, go to
https://www.vandenberg.af.mil.

All launch dates and times are given in Pacific Time using a 24-hour
format similar to military time (midnight = 00:00, 1:00 p.m. = 13:00,
11:00 p.m. = 23:00, etc.).

The dates and times in this schedule may not agree with those on other
online launch schedules, including the official Vandenberg AFB
schedule because different sources were used, the information was
interpreted differently, and the schedules were updated at different
times.

NET: No earlier than

TBD: To be determined

PDT: Pacific Daylight Time

PST: Pacific Standard Time

SLC: Space Launch Complex
 
I did read above George isn't going to active any longer, if I read it right.
Thank You So Much George for taking your time for us all.
I'm sure I speak for all of us when we I saw we are a better group of people for your efforts!

Thanks.

But I'm not going anywhere, so you read something wrong.

Or you read something VERY old.

Now, a year ago this month, I was incredibly PO-ed about an insanely stupid thing that a moderator did a year ago, which still begs credulity. I was banned for 2 weeks over issues arising from a *BICYCLE THREAD* that the moderator deleted! Which was later brought BACK too, but I got banned for ASKING for it to be brought back!

The moderator, who broke TRF policy in his public posts which were self-serving and misleading as to what happened, had a backhanded "compliment" that I should stick to "rocket stuff" and therefore NOT POST ANYTHING ELSE. So once I came back, I decided not to post anything ROCKET related for awhile as a result of that stupid statement, and only post about non-rocket stuff for awhile. So the first Falcon launch after that, I didn't post anything for some time, but I did later, choosing to think of it as a "Space" thing rather than a rocket thing.

Still, as a result of that ban a yer ago, I do not go looking around in lots of other parts of the forum to offer advice or comments like I used to. I've done some, but not nearly as much. And the inconsistent moderation garbage continues, as per the Jack-donkey inconsistency thing a few months ago. Are you happy for "ticking" me off that much, moderator? I'm sure the other mods are thinking "What the....is that about", but the one who did it knows who he is, other mods probably didn't even know what he did at the time, or the full true details. And it seems the TRF's "Moderation Arbitration" policy is DEAD.

Anyway, no, I'm not going anywhere, unless maybe that moderator decides to ban me for what i'm typing here, or invent another dumb excuse outside of TRF rules, or past (lack of) enforcement of the exact same things posted on this forum and never moderated.

But enough about that.

I didn't post much about the previous launch, NROL 76 earlier this month after it had launched, since it was a around a 7 AM Sunday morning launch and by the time I finally was on my computer much later that Sunday, everyone else had posted a lot of neat stuff about the landing, so I didn't see the need to.

So.... next launch planned is CRS-11, NET is June 1st. The Falcon booster will go for an RTLS landing at LZ-1.

Mid-June launch is Bulgaria-Sat 1, on a reflown booster. More details later.

CRS-11 patch by NASA:

index.php
 
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Little over a week from the next launch. CRS-11 (Dragon spacecraft resupply mission to ISS), which should land the booster back at the Cape.

Static firing set for May 27th.

Assuming a good result, Launch planned for June 1st at 5:55 PM EDT.

Dragon Spacecraft for this mission, with most of those who worked on it:

index.php



And now…. THIS.

[video=youtube;o6IQaLraSPY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6IQaLraSPY[/video]
 
Static test firing for the June 1st CRS-11 launch is set for later today, around 6 to 8 PM EDT timeframe.

UPDATE - Delayed to Saturday. Ironically it was originally supposed to be Saturday but they moved it a day early. So if the test goes OK Saturday, it should be OK for June 1st.

UPDATE Update - Static firing waived off from Saturday now set for Sunday. If it is fired Sunday the results are good that probably will not impact the June 1st date, as IIRC there were some ISS "traffic" or other logistical ISS issues that prevented scheduling the launch from an earlier tentative NET date. No info at all why SpaceX bumped the static firings twice.

As for Falcon Heavy.... good that they have more of it coming together, and the testing . But still a long way from being ready to launch. A lot of it being launch logistical issues now (Pad 39A not configured for FH yet, second landing pad construction not begun, etc). Remember this thing has been scheduled to launch in about 6 months, for well over three years now. When they are down to THREE months away (not by the default of saying nothing in 3 months since the last 6 month estimate, but actively saying 3 months or less), then I'll start to take the FH launch schedule somewhat seriously, otherwise it's been a bad joke.

Like the boy who cried "Wolf", this time the Elon crying "just 6 more months" for over 3 years. When it has become clear by all of the logisitical infrastucture they have had to do in those 3 years and did not even start on lots of it for a long time, taking it slow. They knew there was no way they were going to fly in 6 months, plain and simple lied about it unless they were incompetently stupid about such estimates, which I doubt. That level of error and bad planning for an announced 6 month launch date time and time again can't be excused as "overconfidence").

Pad 39A can't possibly be reconfigured before October at the earliest. And they can't start the process of reconfiguring 39A until the damaged LC-40 pad is finally fixed so they can switch back to LC-40 for F-9 flights. Of course a year ago they were going to have 39A ready to launch FH in October of 2016, so 39A should have been ready for FH. Instead, when LC-40 was damaged, they had to have work speeded up on 39A just to get it ready to launch F9's, which took months. And some of the key people needed for rebuilding LC-40 could not do that, as they were needed for the 39A rush job, for a pad that was supposed to be ready that fall anyway. Which is part of why LC-40 still is not ready, they could not work there until the LC-39A work for F9's was done, which went into February, IIRC

A few months ago I penciled in first quarter of 2018 as my estimate of when they will finally launch it. Lots of slippage happens in the mid-November to end of December timeframes due to the holidays. So it's almost like November & December is one month: "NoCember". Of course I'd love to be wrong about this.... if by being wrong that means it happens before Q1 2018 instead of after then.
 
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Static Fire went well:

https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/868871922435620864

Static fire test of Falcon 9 complete—targeting June 1 launch from historic Pad 39A for Dragon’s next resupply mission to the @Space_Station

index.php


Well, they got more fire from the static fire than intended......

#USFWS firefighters are responding to a new wildfire at Merritt Island NWR caused by a static rocket test fire #FLfire

index.php

https://twitter.com/cbs_spacenews/status/868872933699182594

F9/CRS11: Fire crew sent to apparent grass fire in/near pad 39A in wake of hot-fire test; SpaceX reports good test, targeting 6/1 launch pic.twitter.com/v9Vxx5Pq5Z

index.php
 
Work has finally begun at LZ-1 (LC-#13) on the second landing pad that will be needed to land the 2nd booster when Falcon Heavy finally flies (center core will land on the ASDS barge OCISLY).

At left (below) is an older, good quality Google image before the work started.

BX95BtW.jpg


The image at right is a recent image, from this post on the Nasa Space Flight Forum:

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43025.msg1683817#msg1683817

They got it via the Planet Beta imagery program:

https://www.planet.com/explorer/

Not a very clear image, but shows that land has been cleared, or in process of being cleared, to the NorthWest of the first landing pad.

The 2nd pad won’t be as big. Apparently SpaceX feels the landing accuracy is so good they don’t need a lot of extra room.
 
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Work has finally begun at LZ-1 (LC-#13) on the second landing pad that will be needed to land the 2nd booster when Falcon Heavy finally flies (center core will land on the ASDS barge OCISLY).

At left (below) is an older, good quality Google image before the work started.

BX95BtW.jpg


The image at right is a recent image, from this post on the Nasa Space Flight Forum:

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43025.msg1683817#msg1683817

They got it via the Planet Beta imagery program:

https://www.planet.com/explorer/

Not a very clear image, but shows that land has been cleared, or in process of being cleared, to the NorthWest of the first landing pad.

The 2nd pad won’t be as big. Apparently SpaceX feels the landing accuracy is so good they don’t need a lot of extra room.

Way back in this thread somewhere I thought you mentioned a barrier to a second landing pad was the need for an additional environmental impact survey. Does keeping it really close to the existing get them around this, or did they go through all that?
 
Probably any disruption to a new area required an impact study. My dad's neighbor was a mech-e working for WSMR. He worked on a study for a new building adjacent to an existing one. He showed me document which, as I remember, to be about an inch thick. That was over 20 years ago too. Like any desert rat couldn't move or the one endangered plant lived there.
 
Reminder - TWO days from launch of CRS-11. 5:55 PM EDT June 1st, RTLS landing (will be some clouds, darn it, was such a clear blue sky for the expendable launch)

The original Environmental impact Study (EIS), and permits, apparently were for the specific areas that they were going to disturb/bulldoze/build on for LZ-1 and the first landing pad, not the entire LC-13 area. The forest/trees to the northwest were not part of that. So they had to do it over again to build the second pad.

And they are going to have to do it over yet again for landing pad #3, eventually. Because some of the FH payloads will be a bit too heavy for a regular F9 to be able to launch and return the booster, like the heavy GTO comsats that have required some F9's this year to be expendable. So those will fly on FH's, but they will be light enough on an FH for the center core to be able to RTLS back to LZ-1 rather than land on an ASDS barge (OCISLY).

So it'll be interesting to see if they waste a lot of time to bother to get around to doing EIS#3 for landing pad #3, as they wasted time on doing so for landing pad #2, or get more on the ball for landing pad #3. Part of it may be the soonest they might expect to launch such a light enough payload on FH to allow for the center core to RTLS, and if they blow the deadline at least they could still land the core on the ASDS barge (If they didn't have landing Pad#2 ready in time this year for the first FH, they'd either have to delay the flight or lose one of the side boosters into the ocean).

The video below shows all three landing back at the Cape. The video also shows a total of 5 landing pads, but there has been nothing announced or seriously speculated why they would need two extra landing pads. They had referred to the other 4 as "contingency pads" before, which led to some speculation that if there was some landing error happening on a single F9, it might be able to land more easily at one of those if its trajectory was nearer the contingency pad (similar to a contingency airport). But that was long before the landings became successful and showed the landing accuracy was good enough not to justify pads for that reason, *IF* that was a reason for them.

[video=youtube;4Ca6x4QbpoM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ca6x4QbpoM[/video]

UPDATE - This artwork of outer booster sep was posted on the SpaceX Facebook group by artist Oli Braun:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/spa..._t=group_highlights&notif_id=1496123799578170


18698146_10209531520992655_118286994143253206_n.jpg
 
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Gotcha, thanks. Selfishly, I hope the next launch gets delayed a day as we will be in Orlando (giving loads of money to the mouse) for a week starting Friday.
 
It occurs to me that "contingency pads" might also have been thought of in the event that their launch tempo increases to the point that another launch goes up before all of the boosters have been cleared from the LZ from the previous one.
 
If weather allows, CRS-11 will be launched almost exactly 24 hours from when I post this:

5:55:51 PM EDT Thursday June 1st

Launch day probability of violating launch weather constraints: 30%
Primary concern(s):Anvil Cloud Rule, Cumulus Cloud Rule

Saturday probability of violating launch weather constraints: 40%
Primary concern(s):Anvil Cloud Rule, Cumulus Cloud Rule, Flight through Precipitation

Presskit including launch sequence of events timeline:

https://tinyurl.com/yclmzaby

Patch from presskit:

index.php




Since this is a NASA payload, NASA TV will also be showing it with a different feed. I like to watch both.


Webcast link:

[video=youtube;SrhuRpzHxZo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrhuRpzHxZo[/video]
 
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George probably already said something about this, but if he did I must've missed it. Tomorrow's launch has a new booster, but is using a re-used Dragon capsule for the first time. I think that's both interesting and cool.
 
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