Is there a FAQ that walks you through level 1 certification?

I just joined NAR today, and plan on attending a launch soon where I'd like to certify. I have the Estes Leviathan and Argent models (29mm) and am trying to determine if it's practical to purchase a reloadable H engine for one of these.

There's actually a pretty good write up on the NAR website.

https://www.nar.org/high-power-rocketry-info/level-1-hpr-certification/

This is from the NAR.org site. Should tell you every thing you need about certifying.

https://www.nar.org/high-power-rocketry-info/level-1-hpr-certification/

Yes, definitely get reloadable. I'd say go with a CTI 29mm Reloadable Motor Starter Set from Apogee Rockets. https://www.apogeerockets.com/Rocke...gs/Cesaroni_29mm_Reloadable_Motor_Starter_Set

That's great, guys, thanks. What about a general learning resource for the technical questions that will be expected of me? Is there a study guide?

There are some books out there but I have found tons of information here by asking questions and attending club launches and doing the same. This is a very friendly forum!

John Cocker has a great video showing a HPR kit being built for a L1:

[video=youtube;Xtr3758PvzA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xtr3758PvzA[/video]

You might want to subscribe to his channel, as he's got a lot of very good info out there...

Another good video is from Apogee Components. First a FAQ:

[video=youtube;FbLVOOfxvig]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbLVOOfxvig[/video]

And the beginning of a build thread:

[video=youtube;5w0LJ7Hw72w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w0LJ7Hw72w[/video]

I actually don't recommend getting the starter set. Usually once you are certified you will want to build a bigger rocket that will need 38mm L1 motors. And you most likely won't go back to flying 29mm high power loads. Just my 2 cents 😄

..... until you realise that L you just burnt was actually 8 pocket change H motors.

If you're certifying with ROC, check out our own gdjsky01's article at the ROC website. The only change is that Jack no longer serves ROC-- but I do You might also wanna read JVN's Level 1 series (part 1 / part 2) for a more humorous take.

Related topic to the other post about motors in LA: we do a special with CTI for certifications-- buy the load, get the case for free. Shoot me an e-mail and I can get you more information!

The best faq on rocketry is "Modern High Powered Rocketry 2" Check amazon for the book. Pretty everything you need to know from build to motors...

Identify the center of pressure. (Check rocketreviews.com if you're not sure). Identify center of gravity by balancing rocket fully loaded.

Insert any H or I motor. Light it. Collect rocket, get signature. Mail off, wait for card.

Pretzelcuatl said:

That's great, guys, thanks. What about a general learning resource for the technical questions that will be expected of me? Is there a study guide?

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There is no written test for NAR Level 1 Certification. Check out the books and videos shown here to help make sure you are doing things right.
Despite our young friend's assertion, stay with the 29 mm for your certification. If you want to go bigger later, you can with additional hardware. You may want to fly many things with the 29 mm case; I even know Level 1, 2 and 3 rocketeers who will sometimes fly black powder motors. How humiliating that must be. :eyeroll:

Print out this form, fill in the items in the box at the top of the first page and be ready to answer the questions on the second page (one of the cert team people will record your answers). Follow the rest of the items listed by DizWolf above and you'll be fine.

Enjoy the build and the flying.

I'll recommend this: get a small H motor. CTI H133 or aerotech H123W. Even those will put those rockets up there -quick and high-.

enjoy the ride

Be true to yourself. You don't have to fly an H for L1, but you can. I certified on an I600R which is close to being the most L1 motor I could lay my hands on. Build the kind of rocket you want to fly and use an L1 motor in it. You can even use dual deployment if you want. Really, it's just another flight and you've already had plenty of those, right? The punishment for failure is cruel and unusual; they make you fly another rocket.

Everyone here has been fantastic. Thank you -- great forum.

If you build the Pro Series II models, leave out the forward thrust ring. Reloadable motor casings have closures that are larger than the 29mm opening. No forward ring needed, and leaving it out allows you to fit a reloadable motor in there.

BTW, if you buy your motor at a launch, you don't have to pay hazmat shipping fees.

Pssst. All but one of the aerotech 29mm high power motors don't have any haz mat fees

Once you do get into 38mm, loki also has many H and I loads that ship with no haz mat fee.

cbrarick said:

The best faq on rocketry is "Modern High Powered Rocketry 2" Check amazon for the book. Pretty everything you need to know from build to motors...

Click to expand...

but get the "dead-tree" version. The Kindle ebook version has some serious formatting issues.

Congratulations on your endeavor--I hope you find not only success at the end, but enjoy the process.

While there is no Hobby Official FAQ, it's a common topic--and it essentially comes to this:

1) Q: Kit or Scratch? A: Good arguments exist for both, and both have been successful. Your level of expertise, experience, and budget will likely dictate this better than some guy you don't know on an internet forum --or least, it probably should (so says the guy you don't know in an internet forum).

2) Q: Will XXXXXX Kit be good for L1? A: Probably. But if it's designed and sold as a MPR kit, realize it may require modification (omission of thrust rings, swap out of shock cord mounts, etc) to achieve the goal. Kits sold as HPR will need fewer, if any, modifications.

3) Q: 29 or 38 or 54? A: You can always adapt down, not up. And having a larger hole than you have hardware for is a spectacular rationalization, used amongst many experienced rocketeers, to acquire the "right" hardware. "But honey, these adapters aren't really the way to go, and present an additional point for possible failure. It'd be safer to get the right thing, trust me..."

4) Q: Should I read rocketry book XXXXXXX? A: Probably.

5) Q: I bought a kit by a well-known and reputable manufacturer, so I don't need to sim it in Rocksim or OR, right? A: Wrong. Simulations can save certs, rockets, and money. Good simming practice can be key to a successful flight. Perhaps you built heavier than the stock kit--is your landing speed going to be good? Is that motor going to bring you through transonic, and are your fins up to it? Is your CG/CP good, or do you need nose weight? How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

6) Q: Should I get the H-blah blahty blah or the H-doo-bee-dee-doo? How about the I-fah-fahty-fah? A: Your rocket, flying field, style of flying, budget, comfort level, experience and expertise --along with the sim-- will be able to answer this for you. It's YOUR cert. Do it how you want. I flew many H's and I's before I few an F (or G, come to think of it), and a K before I flew a J. Maybe you prefer a more linear approach... nothing wrong with that. Maybe you just want the biggest motor you can cram in there... have at it! If it's built well, flies safely, doesn't break, and recovers... cert is yours.

7) Q: What camera should I use to video the flight? I have a Idroid, and it's got a flexpixel with auto adjust and enhanced zoom focus something something f-stop... A: Someone else's--let them video. You watch.



Later!

--Coop

Coop said:

Congratulations on your endeavor--I hope you find not only success at the end, but enjoy the process.

While there is no Hobby Official FAQ, it's a common topic--and it essentially comes to this:

1) Q: Kit or Scratch? A: Good arguments exist for both

...

Later!

--Coop

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Awesome answer.

Lets not go down the kit vs scratch rabbit hole. He says he's got 2 kits, wants to fly them.
I had a group fly a bunch of them the last METRA on H87's
They were all nice flights, but really high.
Paint them a good contrast color and have help watching them. Expect a long walk.
Try to borrow a tracker so it's easier.

JMHO

matthew said:

Be true to yourself. You don't have to fly an H for L1, but you can. I certified on an I600R which is close to being the most L1 motor I could lay my hands on. Build the kind of rocket you want to fly and use an L1 motor in it. You can even use dual deployment if you want. Really, it's just another flight and you've already had plenty of those, right? The punishment for failure is cruel and unusual; they make you fly another rocket.

Click to expand...

I very much disagree with this philosophy. I am RSO quite often on CMASS and MMMSC launches and have been involved with the certification process dozens of times. My experience is the chances of a successful cert flight, especially Level One, go down quickly when trying to use the largest motor one can use and dual deploy. Keep the fight simple, straight and low, and demonstrate the skill and knowledge needed for L1 certification. Then go and build and fly and gain experience with any additional aspects of rocketry within that level that you want to without the added pressure of getting the certification done. It is what we always recommend. The AMRAM or Phoenix type missle with complicated and or forward fins with dual deploy and an I600R is an almost guarenteed way to fail your first Level 1 certification flight.

I didn't mean to open a rabbit hole--or detract from the OP's question. I was merely mentioning the most common questions I see on the topic.


Later!

--Coop

Yes it's practical to purchase a reload system for those rockets. Not only practical but advisable. My guess is you will be flying your kits on more G's than you will H's. Like Rick said, your kits will get some serious altitude in a hurry on an H. They will test your eyesight and recovery skills and in some cases, the limits of the field you fly in. They will fly great on F's and G's which are as cheap as the hobby gets.

Be careful with people telling you what to buy. Realize that what they are telling you is what they like and my advice is no different. This hobby is filled with more is better folks and that's cool if that is what you like but personally I find it a little strange to build an overly heavy fiberglass rocket that takes a large I or small J to get the same altitude you can get with a lighter paper rocket on a small H. People seem to forget how powerful an H actually is and what it can do. When you stick one in a Leviathan for the first time you will most likely be thinking "what the heck did I just do" followed by "will I ever see it again"?

If you have experience building midpower rockets achieving a Level 1 cert will be a walk in the park. For my L1 I used a 4 inch Patriot from PML with an AT H123. 38mm is a little pricier than 29mm, but it opens up much more opportunity after the cert flight.

Keyword-- experience. I cannot stress this enough. I'd highly recommend flying your midpower rockets as much as possible on G motors prior to attempting a certification. It will make the H motor much less intimidating, without removing any of the excitement associated with a cert flight. Good luck!

I'm going for my Level 1 next week, this thread was well timed! Its a nice confidence boost to know that I have done almost everything recommended in this thread. I am sitting down today and prepping the rocket for flight in order to make a check list for launch day, things get distracting out in the field and I don't want a simple mistake to derail my certification.

On the subject of motor size it all comes down to personal preference and the rocket you plan on flying. I am flying 3" fiberglass rocket that is a hog so an H would not safely lift the rocket. So, I am flying it on a 4-Grain I Skidmark, it can safely lift the rocket, give me about 2000' of altitude, and should put on a good show!

Good Luck with your cert plans OP!

I cannot overstate my thanks to anyone who does a rocket construction video. Years ago, I bought High Power Rocketry 2, and for some reason got the idea that high power always involved scratch builds and rolling ones own fiberglass tubes. As I seem to have trouble using a speed square sometimes (lol), I became disillusioned quickly.

However, after watching John Coker's assembly video last night, I feel I could do that! The keys seem to be patience and a lot of "measuring twice before cutting once."

heh, when I bought and started building my 1st high power bird(mad cow 4" patriot) my 1st thought was, it is little more than an oversize Estes kit. sure the parts are bigger but, the techniques are the same. I would suggest flying a few reloads in the mid power range just to get some practice 'building' motors.
Rex

BTW, do the reloads from Aerotech fit into the Cesaroni engines? Or are they all just meant for their own casings?