Dr. Zooch Return To Flight Space Shuttle build thread- #2

Mushtang said:

That's the plan. As soon as I get a calm sunny afternoon without other plans I'll spend some time throwing it in the back yard and off the deck, making adjustments to see what difference it makes.

From what I can find on the internet about gliders I'm thinking that it just might be too light. Apparently when they say that weight is the enemy of a glider that only goes so far. Unfortunately the only information I can find on gliders is for the little balsa gliders, or similarly shaped planes. Nothing about delta wing gliders like the shuttle. I suppose if I crack the code I can create a page and share what I've found with the world.

BTW, I asked Dr. Zooch for advice when building it and he gave very little, which is understandable because he didn't want to give away too many company secrets. In a follow up PM I asked him if he cared if I shared the files I made for this upscale (there's more to it than simply printing everything at 1.5x) and he never replied. He's logged on since I sent it, so if he hasn't replied to say no then I guess he doesn't care. I still consider the design 100% his and these files are still that design. However, he didn't seem to mind when people shared the wraps to make the shuttle appear more detailed so unless he says otherwise I'll assume he won't care if these are shared too. So if anyone wants the files I altered in order to build a 1.5x version yourself, let me know and I'll share them. Nosecones (4), tyvek, nylon screw, and balsa not included.

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Sorry for not replying- Here's how I see it. It's your build, your rocket and your files. You took the time and trouble to put it all together, so any sharing is strictly up to you. I'm just a spectator here. Of course you folks have to understand that any advice I may give can be held against me if stuff goes wrong. Still I wish you the best of luck. So far as logging on and not replying- please don't read anything into that. I'm normally swamped with work and sometimes just go on and off site really quickly because I cannot afford the time to get hung up on the site.

Normally I find it easier to reply to messages sent directly to me at drzooch AT yahooDotCom.

So I can't remember if I mentioned elsewhere that one of the casualties of my recent move was my Dr Z pace Shuttle. The movers managed to rip the engine hook out, and managed to shred the MMT in the processes. As managed to extract and rebuild the mount last night. But my solution involved adding a little extra weight to the rear and I think the motor will protrude a bit more. I removed the SRB's to keep from damaging them. I'll try to post pics in a bit of what I did. Does anyone have the CG of just the External Tank either empty or with a motor installed? If not the CG of just the ET & SRB stack with and with out a motor installed (don't forget to include the motor type and if the flame fins are attached in the info)? My Orbiter is in the older High Rider configuration, so I assume I have a little bit of margin, but knowing how bad it is would be nice. Thanks so much

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pictures of the repairs

I can't see any of your pictures. They're just links and when I click on them I get a new blank tab that doesn't load anything. Not sure why that is.

I'm out of town this week but when I get home I can give you GC measurements on the ET and SRBs, mine are glued on so I can't give you just the ET.

Repairing an old flier is fun, but are you a little tempted to get a new kit and build the "new" low rider version? It's a little bit closer to the way the actual shuttle and stack look.

Thanks Mushtang, I'd like to get another but my to build pile in both my hobbies is too big right now and I have to build shelves before I buy to many more kits so I can store them. yeah the pics don't work for me either. I tried to up load them as files as the upload button wasn't showing up on the picture upload pop up. I'll have to try again later.

Hey finally got the repairs done on this minus some touch up paint. I got a CG from Kcobbva in his build thread (https://www.rocketryforum.com/showt...tle-build-Snowmageddon-2016&highlight=shuttle) and I'm a little aft of his (3.625 for his and I have 4.0625 ). Unfortunately a lot of weight is needed at the base of the NC to move it forward for his numbers (31 grams on a 54 gram tank). I can do the math to work out SRB weight and CG if some of you would kindly give me your CG numbers for the tank and SRB assembly no fins if possible. I'm hoping that if I get a few numbers I can get an envelope to work in as opposed to a fixed single point. Also does anyone have contact info for Dr. Zooch? I tried going through his klydemorris website and got an undelivered reply, and he hasn't been active on TRF in a while I know he had some medical issues. I wounder if there was a nose weight change between the old high rider orbiter (my config) and the new low rider orbiter config or if he new how sensitive the stack was to CG movement. Could someone weigh their nose cones and give me some weights for that too?

Is anyone interested in me posting yet another build on this very old thread?

I haven't built anything in years (various reasons) and have come across a set of 3 nose cones for this model, but nothing else from the kits. The ET nosecone is weighted offset from center in a way that is important for it to fly, so without that it would be impossible (or at least fairly difficult) for me to build one of these without buying a complete kit. However, with the correct nose cones (for the ET and the SRBs) I feel I can scratch together the rest of what is needed. It helps having all the leftovers from previous builds so I have the instructions, templates, etc. and I have high quality scans that I have printed on a nice printer.

I haven't actually cut anything out or started building at all. This weekend I got all my supplies out of storage, purchased a couple of things from the hobby store (balsa, Xacto knife, paint) and ordered other things online that the local shop didn't have (body tubes, centering rings, etc.).

So me posting another build on this thread would be slightly different but mostly the same as my two earlier builds in this thread. I'll be using the wraps to build an orbiter that I haven't built yet (Challenger I think). It's probably not needed, but should I do it anyway?

The fact that this kit is out of production makes the value of this thread less I think, specifically since the specialized nose cone makes scratch building even less likely compared to other OOP kits.

mjennings, if you're still in need of any measurements I can grab those from you as I go if that helps. Or, I can measure from what I had in storage now. Your last post was 3 years ago so there's a chance you've already gotten what you needed anyway.

Funny you should be witting about doing a build thread about Dr. Zoochs Shuttle. This week I have started the same type of project. I'm lucky enough to have a 3D printer and have started to print some parts for the main ET. A nose cone and a round bottom cone.

I for one would like to see a build thread. I'm sure it would help others who have thought about trying to build Dr. Zoochs shuttle from scratch. Maybe we could help each out.

Good thinking.

BTW, did you print your nose cone in a way that you could offset the CG, and do you know how far off of center line you need the CG of the nose cone so the finished rocket flies straight? A regular nose cone with that shape might not work. Also, do you know the CG of the completed stack so that you can add nose weight to compensate for the heavier round bottom piece?

The round bottom piece will probably look great and if you're selling them I might like to get one and try it myself on a future build. I think for this one I'll stick to the paper dome lined with glue.

Mushtang said:

Is anyone interested in me posting yet another build on this very old thread?

I haven't built anything in years (various reasons) and have come across a set of 3 nose cones for this model, but nothing else from the kits. The ET nosecone is weighted offset from center in a way that is important for it to fly, so without that it would be impossible (or at least fairly difficult) for me to build one of these without buying a complete kit. However, with the correct nose cones (for the ET and the SRBs) I feel I can scratch together the rest of what is needed. It helps having all the leftovers from previous builds so I have the instructions, templates, etc. and I have high quality scans that I have printed on a nice printer.

I haven't actually cut anything out or started building at all. This weekend I got all my supplies out of storage, purchased a couple of things from the hobby store (balsa, Xacto knife, paint) and ordered other things online that the local shop didn't have (body tubes, centering rings, etc.).

So me posting another build on this thread would be slightly different but mostly the same as my two earlier builds in this thread. I'll be using the wraps to build an orbiter that I haven't built yet (Challenger I think). It's probably not needed, but should I do it anyway?

The fact that this kit is out of production makes the value of this thread less I think, specifically since the specialized nose cone makes scratch building even less likely compared to other OOP kits.

mjennings, if you're still in need of any measurements I can grab those from you as I go if that helps. Or, I can measure from what I had in storage now. Your last post was 3 years ago so there's a chance you've already gotten what you needed anyway.

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Sorry for the long delay I'm not on TRF much anymore, still build and fly though. yeah go ahead and post the measurements, I'm not sure I've flown my stack since completing the repairs, so it would be nice to have some more data points

While the kit is OOP it might be interesting to see what you've got in mind

On the kit I'm building I've got the ET painted and ready to glue the SRBs on. The orbiter is done. I'm cutting out flame fins.

Saluki and I have compiled a complete parts list, with help from Dr Zooch (Wes) himself. We've also started the design for 3D printed nose cones that will have a place to put clay to make for the correct offset and total weight. When we finish that we'll post the parts list and the 3D file together so that anyone with instructions and wraps can build another Space Shuttle.

mjennings, I'm happy to provide measurements if you tell me specifically what you want. I think you needed the CG of the stack? Or the ET without the SRBs? With or without laundry? etc.

I would love to see a build thread! Your build threads are the best!

NJRick said:

I would love to see a build thread! Your build threads are the best!

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Thanks Rick! Except you're about a month too late. I've been working very slowly on it but haven't been taking pictures because it didn't seem like anyone other than Saluki wanted me to post a build. I've shared some stuff with him in the private messages but I'm about 2 steps away from being finished. I'm looking forward to flying it and then finishing up on the 3D printed nose cone for this kit.

sorry Mushtang...I am not on as often as I should be....

Mushtang said:

Thanks Rick! Except you're about a month too late. I've been working very slowly on it but haven't been taking pictures because it didn't seem like anyone other than Saluki wanted me to post a build. I've shared some stuff with him in the private messages but I'm about 2 steps away from being finished. I'm looking forward to flying it and then finishing up on the 3D printed nose cone for this kit.

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Did you give up on the upscale? Been fun going back reading/scanning the old posts.

Found a couple of boosters in need of minor repair. No “brick” to be found. Might have to keep looking or build another shuttle.