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Dr. Zooch Return To Flight Space Shuttle build thread- #2
- Thread starter luke strawwalker
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Great job... fantastic vid...
Glad that it's working well for you. Sometimes there's just no substitute for actual experimentation...
later! OL JR
Thanks Jeff! This wasn't possible for me until I found this field about 10 min from my house. I plan on getting as many flights as possible until either 1) someone comes by and tells me to stop, or 2) they begin developing on the cleared land and I realize that it's over myself.
The good news is that further clearing for future development on that same road is almost certain, which means more flying for me. Hooray!!
rbelknap
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Looking good so far! (I really should buy myself one (or two or three) of these shuttle kits.)
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Great job, can't wait to see the finished product.
When I was posting my original build on this thread I noticed pictures of NJRick's orbiter had some added stripes and graphics. I commented on them on post number 376 here, and it inspired me to add them to mine too. After seeing Rick's I just couldn't leave the wings white. Rick does such a great job of painting all his rockets!!
When I was posting my original build on this thread I noticed pictures of NJRick's orbiter had some added stripes and graphics. I commented on them on post number 376 here, and it inspired me to add them to mine too. After seeing Rick's I just couldn't leave the wings white. Rick does such a great job of painting all his rockets!!
Ok, I found it, the thing is that the alignment lines were hidden because I painted the external tank, but no problem just need to draw them again.
luke strawwalker
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Yeah, always a good idea to put a rougly 1/4 inch wide strip of masking tape centered over the SRB attachment lines before priming and painting the ET... that has several advantages-- first, it keeps the lines visible, second, it keeps the tube surface free of paint and primer so that when you glue the SRB's on, they are glued directly to the tube surface, not to paint or primer COVERING the tube surface... It's also a good idea to lightly sand the surface of the tube over and slightly to each side of the line to gently rough up the glassine tube surface, to promote adhesion of the glue attaching the SRB to the ET. Doesn't take much-- just a light sanding with 220 grit to take the shine off the tube's outer glassine layer along the strip...
Later and good luck! OL JR
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thanks Mushtang.....but my shuttle doesn't hold a torch to yours! Yours is THE gold standard! just beautiful!!
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Magic...I agree with Luke's post 100%...I have built the Zooch Shuttle as well as several Dr. Zooch Lifting Bodies (another really cool kit BTW) which has a similar booster tank SRB combination as the Shuttle...as Luke explains, just lay a strip of 1/4" tape down the marked lines and then paint as normal. when done, remove the tape and you are good to go.
Yeah, always a good idea to put a rougly 1/4 inch wide strip of masking tape centered over the SRB attachment lines before priming and painting the ET... that has several advantages-- first, it keeps the lines visible, second, it keeps the tube surface free of paint and primer so that when you glue the SRB's on, they are glued directly to the tube surface, not to paint or primer COVERING the tube surface... It's also a good idea to lightly sand the surface of the tube over and slightly to each side of the line to gently rough up the glassine tube surface, to promote adhesion of the glue attaching the SRB to the ET. Doesn't take much-- just a light sanding with 220 grit to take the shine off the tube's outer glassine layer along the strip...
Later and good luck! OL JR
GlenP
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I have just recently started building this kit, which I bought last year along with the SLS. Nothing fancy here, just the stock kit, and what an amazing kit it is. I have enjoyed reading this thread and seeing all the customizations, very impressive. But, let's take a break to appreciate the simplicity and beauty of the stock kit itself for a moment ... work in progress, still painting and need to build the flame fins. New to this forum, I hope these picture uploads work...
I made a slight modification to put a paper strip in front of the orbiter attachment on the ET to serve as a ramp for the nose gear lug on the orbiter, it seems as though it might bind on the intertank corrugations at ejection, so I added a little paper ramp to help it slide up and over it.
And I went for real simplicity on the ET paint job, just used a simple modeling brush and one of those little bottles of Laquer from Testors, the color is called Grapefruit. Pretty close match to the paper on the bottom of the ET which has not been painted yet. I used some regular laquer sanding sealer on the balsa cones and wing before painting. I might add some black/gray trim to the orbiter wings. Not sure if I will add the SSMEs, the orbiter test hand-launch glides in the backyard on the grass have been straight and true.
I was almost wondering if the flame fins could make do with 2 on each SRB, clocked at 60-deg and 120-deg, rather than 90/180/270. I almost think that they would probably need to be sized up more to remain as effective and thus increase weight more than the stock 3 fin version. (based on a gut-feeling from similar considerations of the trade-offs from V-tails on aircraft versus conventional horizontal and vertical stabilizers)
Kudos to Dr. Zooch for such a wonderful kit, worth much more than the cost of its parts, looking forward to flying this at our Cub Scout Pack Rocket launch in June, and hope to have the SLS finished then also.
I made a slight modification to put a paper strip in front of the orbiter attachment on the ET to serve as a ramp for the nose gear lug on the orbiter, it seems as though it might bind on the intertank corrugations at ejection, so I added a little paper ramp to help it slide up and over it.
And I went for real simplicity on the ET paint job, just used a simple modeling brush and one of those little bottles of Laquer from Testors, the color is called Grapefruit. Pretty close match to the paper on the bottom of the ET which has not been painted yet. I used some regular laquer sanding sealer on the balsa cones and wing before painting. I might add some black/gray trim to the orbiter wings. Not sure if I will add the SSMEs, the orbiter test hand-launch glides in the backyard on the grass have been straight and true.
I was almost wondering if the flame fins could make do with 2 on each SRB, clocked at 60-deg and 120-deg, rather than 90/180/270. I almost think that they would probably need to be sized up more to remain as effective and thus increase weight more than the stock 3 fin version. (based on a gut-feeling from similar considerations of the trade-offs from V-tails on aircraft versus conventional horizontal and vertical stabilizers)
Kudos to Dr. Zooch for such a wonderful kit, worth much more than the cost of its parts, looking forward to flying this at our Cub Scout Pack Rocket launch in June, and hope to have the SLS finished then also.
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she looks great Glen! nice work!
I agree with you, the Zooch shuttle is a gem. I thought the instructions that came with this kit were just absolutely spot on :bangbang:....just a logical step by step process. When I bought this kit I thought that perhaps I had bitten off more than I could chew and that it would be beyond my ability...but I followed the instructions to the T and I was amazed how straight forward it is!
I really want to take another shot at this kit....my current shuttle has 18 flights of which 16 were successful...on one flight the booster impacted the orbiter and she spun in...on the other..I launched in winds @12 mph....and a gust caught her...no damage or anything just didn't glide...other than those flights...she is just a blast to fly! Glides perfectly and circles the booster...
as for the flame fins..I don't know if two fins would do the trick or not...I guess my thought is ..why chance it? Its one more fin to glue on...I'll defer to the Doc on this one...I have had NO stability issues with my Zooch Shuttle at all.
Your Shuttle looks great! I think you are going to have a blast flying her! (would love to see your SLS too!!!) My engine of choice on my Zooch Shuttle is a C6-3. On my first powered test flights I went with a B6-2...on the B engine she is not going to go very high...maybe 100'....you want that ejection charge to fire sooner than later The C6-3 is perfect for this kit...I'll guess maybe 250'....
I agree with you, the Zooch shuttle is a gem. I thought the instructions that came with this kit were just absolutely spot on :bangbang:....just a logical step by step process. When I bought this kit I thought that perhaps I had bitten off more than I could chew and that it would be beyond my ability...but I followed the instructions to the T and I was amazed how straight forward it is!
I really want to take another shot at this kit....my current shuttle has 18 flights of which 16 were successful...on one flight the booster impacted the orbiter and she spun in...on the other..I launched in winds @12 mph....and a gust caught her...no damage or anything just didn't glide...other than those flights...she is just a blast to fly! Glides perfectly and circles the booster...
as for the flame fins..I don't know if two fins would do the trick or not...I guess my thought is ..why chance it? Its one more fin to glue on...I'll defer to the Doc on this one...I have had NO stability issues with my Zooch Shuttle at all.
Your Shuttle looks great! I think you are going to have a blast flying her! (would love to see your SLS too!!!) My engine of choice on my Zooch Shuttle is a C6-3. On my first powered test flights I went with a B6-2...on the B engine she is not going to go very high...maybe 100'....you want that ejection charge to fire sooner than later The C6-3 is perfect for this kit...I'll guess maybe 250'....
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another neat Zooch kit is his Lifting Body....I love that kit as well...fun to build....unlimited paint schemes and really fun to fly!
GlenP
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I am probably going to start a collection of several of his kits, I need to plan ahead now for how to put them all on display. I was thinking of making something like a mini-crawler from the cardboard boxes.
Someone needs to adapt an RC version of a NASA 747 to transport their orbiter/glider back to the launch pad, now that would be awesome.
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the flame fins are absolutely necessary for flight!!! I believe the instructions warn not to fly without the fins....she is not stable without them.
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luke strawwalker
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Do not attempt to fly your shuttle without flame fins-- unless you want to replace your rocket with a smoking, balsa garnished crater...
The stack will NOT be stable without flame fins. Build the Flame fins according to the kit instructions (three fins, NOT two, spaced at the 9, 12, and 3 o-clock positions 90 degrees apart, NOT at the 12, 4 and 8 positions like a regular three fin rocket (120 degrees apart). Do not do like one lug nut I read about on an EMRR review who decided that the instructions were in error and that if the fins were 90 degrees apart it MUST require FOUR fins on each flame fin unit, which of course put two fins directly in line with the motor exhaust, which of course promptly burned them off in flight or charred them beyond all recognition... Then of course he complained about it like it was the kit's fault he was an idiot... LOL
The flame fins have actually been reduced in size somewhat from the original fin patterns that came with the early kits... back then they were a more "regular" looking clipped delta type fin. The "Flame" pattern was instituted and sized to still provide ample stability for the shuttle stack in flight while looking less obtrusive than the trapezoidal fins.
SO, in summation-- DO NOT attempt to fly a Zooch shuttle without the flame fins-- the rocket will be completely unstable and will spin out, part your hair, and crash in very short order. DO NOT attempt to modify the fin arrangement or reduce the number of fins or their 90 degree arrangement-- it will reduce the stability or cause the rocket to go unstable in flight, or could cause it to go unstable in flight, or fly in an erratic or unpredictable direction.
Unless you FULLY understand EXACTLY what the effects of any modifications you make will have on the stability of the stack (or are willing to risk your stack being destroyed, and are willing to fly in private alone to test your modifications to prove they're safe first) Of course the manufacturers recommendation is to build it PER THE INSTRUCTIONS...
Best of luck! OL JR
Do not attempt to fly your shuttle without flame fins-- unless you want to replace your rocket with a smoking, balsa garnished crater...
The stack will NOT be stable without flame fins. Build the Flame fins according to the kit instructions (three fins, NOT two, spaced at the 9, 12, and 3 o-clock positions 90 degrees apart, NOT at the 12, 4 and 8 positions like a regular three fin rocket (120 degrees apart). Do not do like one lug nut I read about on an EMRR review who decided that the instructions were in error and that if the fins were 90 degrees apart it MUST require FOUR fins on each flame fin unit, which of course put two fins directly in line with the motor exhaust, which of course promptly burned them off in flight or charred them beyond all recognition... Then of course he complained about it like it was the kit's fault he was an idiot... LOL
The flame fins have actually been reduced in size somewhat from the original fin patterns that came with the early kits... back then they were a more "regular" looking clipped delta type fin. The "Flame" pattern was instituted and sized to still provide ample stability for the shuttle stack in flight while looking less obtrusive than the trapezoidal fins.
SO, in summation-- DO NOT attempt to fly a Zooch shuttle without the flame fins-- the rocket will be completely unstable and will spin out, part your hair, and crash in very short order. DO NOT attempt to modify the fin arrangement or reduce the number of fins or their 90 degree arrangement-- it will reduce the stability or cause the rocket to go unstable in flight, or could cause it to go unstable in flight, or fly in an erratic or unpredictable direction.
Unless you FULLY understand EXACTLY what the effects of any modifications you make will have on the stability of the stack (or are willing to risk your stack being destroyed, and are willing to fly in private alone to test your modifications to prove they're safe first) Of course the manufacturers recommendation is to build it PER THE INSTRUCTIONS...
Best of luck! OL JR
That's the answer I was looking for. The only thing is I need to get more balsa, can only get 5 fins with what's left.
Great Forum and again THANKS,
The black and gray on the leading edges of the wings add a lot to the overall look of the shuttle! Good job. If you look through the site, linked on post number 416, you'll find PDFs of graphics for all the shuttle missions. If you've got the graphic editing skills you can pull logos off to use on the tops of your wings to add even more detail and make them look better. You can make decals if you're so inclined, or just print on white copy paper, cut them out closely, and glue them in place.
The stand your shuttle sits on had me really confused for a few minutes. It looked like your elevon was folded out into fins or something. I didn't realize it was a stand until I saw the other pictures.
Your shuttle looks great! Thanks for sharing. Don't forget to post flight pictures and video here.
Nope. Mine was going to look pretty plain until I saw yours. And my second one was just a copy of what stargazerdave had done earlier in this thread. You're the painting master here!!
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mjennings
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The shuttle is an amazing kit and the Shuttle stack itself is unstable with out additional fins, or active guidance like the real thing. GlenP and RCMagic, great work enjoy the rest of your builds and get out and fly them if the weather is still good by you.
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thanks again Mushtang...but I have to admit your shuttle is inspiring me up here!...didn't some of the earlier tanks have more of a maroon color? gonna have to start doing some research up here....
luke strawwalker
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GlenP
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Though hard to tell from this photo, it appears that the fin broke along a grain line. Just a reminder to make your grain lines parallel to the fin's leading edge rather than the body tube when you cut those balsa fins for added strength. (the instructions indicate the recommended grain direction for the fins as well as the orbiter wings.) When I first cut out my orbiter wings, I aligned the center seam on the edge of the balsa sheet, but realized that the grain was the wrong way, a wing tip would easily split off, so I had to recut them with the grain at the correct angle. Consequently, I ran out of balsa to make enough flame fins and had to get another sheet. Just finishing up painting those now.
I almost got lazy and did not add the detailed SRB black/white paper bands on top of the paper wrap, but I am glad I did. I was not that careful or as accurate as yours here, but this small detail addition really makes the SRBs just pop out visually. I will definitely do a better job with those when I build the SLS kit.
I got today the balsa that i needed today, hope to make the fins before the weekend. The black edge was done with a sharpie and the gray with paint. My wife is worried because its been a lot of work and if it crashes it will go down the drain. I told her that's the fun of it (not the crash) is building it and feeling proud of your result and if the shuttles glides to ground that will be the icing on the cake. Hope to do some gliding test before the actual launch to trim the elevator.
Thanks for all the tips and info I gathered here which it really helped with my shuttle.
That's the first thing I thought too when I saw it, so shortly after taking the picture I looked at it closer and it wasn't broken along the grain, just an unlucky landing. I managed to cut the fins per the instructions with the grain in the correct direction. Whew! But that doesn't mean it wasn't something that I never do. Definitely a good tip, thanks!
That's something else I have NJRick to thank for. He mentioned doing this step and how big of a difference it makes, so when I built my second shuttle I made sure to put them on and he's right, they really make a huge difference in person. In the pictures, not so much.
I'm color blind, so all of the tanks have been "orange" to me. When I picked out paint at Lowes I stopped someone that was walking by in the aisle and asked them to point to a pumpkin orange (or something like that). So my external tank color might look a little screwy to everyone else, but it looks perfect to me. Hahahaha!
rbelknap
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In the end, I think that's all that really matters. (Unless you are entering a scale competition, then you have to impress the judges. :wink
Impressing the rest of us here in the peanut gallery is just a bonus.
