Our Children's Future: An LDRS34 Teen Group Project

Hahahahah I love those decals! Der Boomen!!!

those are hilarious! wow.

Alrighty... The av bay is coming along. I am attempting to draw it up in SolidWorks right now... but am pretty much failing at it.

I cut the sled pieces last night, and will be milling them in the next few days (thank you robotics team).

The basic jist of the sled is that each altimeter will have its own sled, the camera will have one sled, and the batteries and power distribution will all be on one sled.

I will try and get some pictures as soon as I can find the @#$%^&* camera.

OK, the camera was found.



The four sleds have been cut, but still need sanding and milling.






The paper on the altimeter bays is simply an altimeter outline.

and cleaning................

Are you stacking all these sleds?
Seems like you have plenty of room for 2 altimeters & 2 batteries per sled. Kind of a waste of G-10.

Just curious as to what your intent is?

blackjack2564 said:

Are you stacking all these sleds?
Seems like you have plenty of room for 2 altimeters & 2 batteries per sled. Kind of a waste of G-10.

Just curious as to what your intent is?

Click to expand...

Your right. Matt has full control of AV-Bay so were going with his design. I think he is going to run 1 altimeter per sled which leave one sled for all the batteries and switches and the last sled for mounting a camera. He will have to explain in more detail of what he's doing.

I strongly recommend that you all discuss and approve of his designs. No offense to him, but he has VERY LITTLE electronics experience.

View attachment scan0003.pdf


OK.... here is a rough sketch of my planned design. The idea is to have 4 individual sleds so I can deal with 1 altimeter at a time instead of having to deal with a giant sled and a bunch of different wiring. I played around with the idea of a single sled but I found it to be not enough room for a camera, 2 altimeters, and all the batteries and switches. This seems to optimize the space in the bay.

Not to mention, it looks cool.



And as for the fiberglass, I got a stack of fiberglass from a local rocketry guy gratis, and figured I could use some of it.



I'll convert the attached document into a picture format in a sec.

blackbrandt said:

View attachment 253185


OK.... here is a rough sketch of my planned design. The idea is to have 4 individual sleds so I can deal with 1 altimeter at a time instead of having to deal with a giant sled and a bunch of different wiring. I played around with the idea of a single sled but I found it to be not enough room for a camera, 2 altimeters, and all the batteries and switches. This seems to optimize the space in the bay.

Not to mention, it looks cool.



And as for the fiberglass, I got a stack of fiberglass from a local rocketry guy gratis, and figured I could use some of it.



I'll convert the attached document into a picture format in a sec.

Click to expand...

Artist of the month here!

OK... better description:


This is the setup of the rods. There are 4x 3/8's inch allthread rods running through the altimeter bay.





Each sled will be individually contained. Both altimeter sleds will run back to the Battery/Switch/Power Distribution board. Not drawn on the last board are the terminal blocks that will lead all charges to the proper places. The OCD in me makes me have to do this.





This is the general layout of the altimeter bay. The 4 sleds will slide individually onto the all-thread, and will lock each other in place. This also allows all wiring to run through the middle of the avionics bay.






I hope this makes sense. Please let me know if you have any questions.

Just a little overkill with 4 x 3/8" rods.

I've used 2 x 1/4" on a 7.67" rocket and a single 5/16" threaded rods with 5/6" U-bolts on a 6" SWFG project.


JD

JDcluster said:

Just a little overkill with 4 x 3/8" rods.

I've used 2 x 1/4" on a 7.67" rocket and a single 5/16" threaded rods with 5/6" U-bolts on a 6" SWFG project.


JD

Click to expand...

I do realize that the 3/8" is a little overkill.... but Jim had an extra piece of it laying around, and we figured we would just use that.



And for goodness sake... Who in the world needs a 5/6" eyebolt? That thing could lift the Titanic...

blackbrandt said:

I do realize that the 3/8" is a little overkill.... but Jim had an extra piece of it laying around, and we figured we would just use that.






And for goodness sake... Who in the world needs a 5/6" eyebolt? That thing could lift the Titanic...

Click to expand...

apparently we have a lot to talk about before stuff starts going together

I said I was going to just sit back and watch this..............but I can't. I want it to work.

If you have not drilled those BP's [av-bay] DON"T. Even if you have, I would strongly urge you to fill 2 of the holes with epoxy and re-think this layout.

How long is the coupler?
I'm guessing ...tubes are 10in. so coupler should be at least 18-20? If it's shorter you got problems.

You should have PLENTY of room to fit all of it on one sled. Even if you only have 12-14in you can make that work with altimeters & batteries on one sled. all on one side or batteries on back. Camera on other.

Ditch 4 rods & go with 2. Your coupler is your weak link in the chain, hopefully you will add 2 layers of at LEAST 6oz preferably 8-10 oz glass to the INSIDE. Just 2 rods will give you more usable room than 4 if done right.

Don't try to wrap it . Cut into 2 or 3 sections and overlap them. As soon as the glass is tacky, put the next layer of 2-3 sections on top. No need to go to the ends of coupler, cut glass so you leave 1/2 or 3/4 in bare on ends for BP's ......since I assume you already cut them. If not....even better...glass full length. Coat exterior with thinned down epoxy....6-10%. Wick ends of coupler tubes with CA or thinned epoxy, or heck even better, ends of all tubes.

The av-bay/coupler sticking out the end of payload is what will take the hit on landing & beefing it up a bit will increase chances of flying again. [if this is your plan] If it's a one shot deal ...who cares.

You should be able to install the sled, hook up charges on apogee side with out any hassle or plugging wire together from another sled to power up anything. Keep it simple, do not complicate this. Nobody cares what it looks like....form follows function.

I would stick with the 5/16 eyebolt and large fender washers. I have seen eyebolts pull though big heavy rockets, so back them plenty or use U bolt.

Only 15-20 gees is 1500-2000lbs of force on a 100lb. rocket. You can easily hit that with a less than optimal chute opening or ejection charge.

Good luck boys!:smile:

blackjack2564 said:

I said I was going to just sit back and watch this..............but I can't. I want it to work.

If you have not drilled those BP's [av-bay] DON"T. Even if you have, I would strongly urge you to fill 2 of the holes with epoxy and re-think this layout.

How long is the coupler?
I'm guessing ...tubes are 10in. so coupler should be at least 18-20? If it's shorter you got problems.

You should have PLENTY of room to fit all of it on one sled. Even if you only have 12-14in you can make that work with altimeters & batteries on one sled. all on one side or batteries on back. Camera on other.

Ditch 4 rods & go with 2. Your coupler is your weak link in the chain, hopefully you will add 2 layers of at LEAST 6oz preferably 8-10 oz glass to the INSIDE. Just 2 rods will give you more usable room than 4 if done right.

Don't try to wrap it . Cut into 2 or 3 sections and overlap them. As soon as the glass is tacky, put the next layer of 2-3 sections on top. No need to go to the ends of coupler, cut glass so you leave 1/2 or 3/4 in bare on ends for BP's ......since I assume you already cut them. If not....even better...glass full length. Coat exterior with thinned down epoxy....6-10%. Wick ends of coupler tubes with CA or thinned epoxy, or heck even better, ends of all tubes.

The av-bay/coupler sticking out the end of payload is what will take the hit on landing & beefing it up a bit will increase chances of flying again. [if this is your plan] If it's a one shot deal ...who cares.

You should be able to install the sled, hook up charges on apogee side with out any hassle or plugging wire together from another sled to power up anything. Keep it simple, do not complicate this. Nobody cares what it looks like....form follows function.

Good luck boys!:smile:

Click to expand...

Yes the tube is 18" long. I'm starting to think going with 1 sled is a good idea. I don't think glassing the inside is necessary as it is a 1/4" this coupler. If I'm wrong please let me know and i will throw a couple wraps of 10oz. in there. I'm going to talk to everybody else about it.

conman13 said:

Yes the tube is 18" long. I'm starting to think going with 1 sled is a good idea. I don't think glassing the inside is necessary as it is a 1/4" this coupler. If I'm wrong please let me know and i will throw a couple wraps of 10oz. in there. I'm going to talk to everybody else about it.

Click to expand...

Let me ask you this.....

Would you feel comfortable standing on your coupler, full of all your expensive gear, & bouncing on it?


................ if not, glass it.
You probably only weigh 185-225? 1000lbs for force gone wrong, can cause considerable damage. Of all the things the entire rocket is made of, the 2 things I want back, if things go wrong, are the motor case & electronics. That's where the money is. So for a little bit of time, you increase survivability many times over.

You decide.

All of us, [well some of us] giving you advice, are doing this based on large projects personally built & finding things out the hard way, just trying to keep you from that.:wink:

Honestly I am starting to think we should go with what CJ has said. Simplicity means more than an over designed bay... We will be talking before we continue on.

Aside from the camera...you can fit all this on one side of a 4" bay.... Run a single two sided sled and you're all set. Or move the camera outside if need be. Simple is better It'll be easier to wire a single sled than running crap all over between 4....

patelldp said:

I strongly recommend that you all discuss and approve of his designs. No offense to him, but he has VERY LITTLE electronics experience.

Click to expand...

Well that concerns me...

blackbrandt said:

OK.... here is a rough sketch of my planned design. The idea is to have 4 individual sleds so I can deal with 1 altimeter at a time instead of having to deal with a giant sled and a bunch of different wiring. I played around with the idea of a single sled but I found it to be not enough room for a camera, 2 altimeters, and all the batteries and switches. This seems to optimize the space in the bay.

Click to expand...

I'm curious - how hard would be exactly to wire 3 altimeters inside a 9" x 18" av-bay? The 4-sled idea just seems like way overkill to me.

AlnessW said:

Well that concerns me...


I'm curious - how hard would be exactly to wire 3 altimeters inside a 9" x 18" av-bay? The 4-sled idea just seems like way overkill to me.

Click to expand...

\\\

It is.....Like I said we have a lot to talk about as we thought we had it set last time we talked but apparently not. Cody and I thought we were set to use 1/4" Allthread. We are going to go with the simple 2 sided sled with an altimeter on each sideband forget about the camera as there will be plenty on the outside. I'm going to glass the coupler with some 10oz.

codysmith said:

Honestly I am starting to think we should go with what CJ has said. Simplicity means more than an over designed bay... We will be talking before we continue on.

Click to expand...

Smartest thing I've seen in this thread (not to downplay anything you've done - you're doing great!). Always trust the voice of experience. When it comes to big/crazy projects, he has pretty much been there, done that. Listen to him. Banana is good...banana is wise...trust the bananaman...

Bananaman lost a drag race at NSL 2008 cuz he fergot to hook up his igniter leads! Doah!

jimzcatz said:

Bananaman lost a drag race at NSL 2008 cuz he fergot to hook up his igniter leads! Doah!

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Hahahahaha thats great! Even his igniters to need to be hooked up to work

conman13 said:

\\\

It is.....Like I said we have a lot to talk about as we thought we had it set last time we talked but apparently not. Cody and I thought we were set to use 1/4" Allthread. We are going to go with the simple 2 sided sled with an altimeter on each sideband forget about the camera as there will be plenty on the outside. I'm going to glass the coupler with some 10oz.

Click to expand...

Good plans! 4 x 3/8" all-threads just seems like overkill and a lot of extra weight to me.
But of course, it's your project so it's up to you.

jimzcatz said:

Bananaman lost a drag race at NSL 2008 cuz he fergot to hook up his igniter leads! Doah!

Click to expand...

Ummm that one's still a mystery.....they WERE hooked up. Just not to my igniter. [they were left clipped together so continuity showed.....Hmmmmmmm]

Not nice..... considering I reminded him he FOGOT to secure his motor retention....now that could have been a very interesting flight...LOL

We won't go into your faulty electronics debacle out at the pads either............will we?

That's OK.
We have decided on re-match 7 years later at NSL 2015!

Gone Banana's VS [? he has to build it] on M sparky somethings.

This time I have hired Pinkerton Agency to guard my igniter

AlnessW said:

Good plans! 4 x 3/8" all-threads just seems like overkill and a lot of extra weight to me.
But of course, it's your project so it's up to you.

Click to expand...

It is complete overkill.... I thought we were doing 1/4" like we discussed... Any who were going to fill the holes and talk to Matt about completely redesigning the AV-Bay layout.

Dem damed Pinkertons! Yep, rematch on. Loki M1200s. New thread coming soon, not gonna hijax this one.

DizWolf said:

Aside from the camera...you can fit all this on one side of a 4" bay.... Run a single two sided sled and you're all set. Or move the camera outside if need be. Simple is better It'll be easier to wire a single sled than running crap all over between 4....

Click to expand...

Actually including the camera you can fit all that in a 4" bay. I have an Apogee Level-2 that can fit an RRC3, Raven 3, two batteries, two switches, and a Flip Mino HD, in its 4"x9" coupler. And there's room to spare. Maybe not room on the sled, but there is definitely enough room to fit a second smaller sled with another battery/altimeter/switch.

T34zac said:

Actually including the camera you can fit all that in a 4" bay. I have an Apogee Level-2 that can fit an RRC3, Raven 3, two batteries, two switches, and a Flip Mino HD, in its 4"x9" coupler. And there's room to spare. Maybe not room on the sled, but there is definitely enough room to fit a second smaller sled with another battery/altimeter/switch.

Click to expand...

Exactly. We were just rolling with art's idea however once he showed us what he was doing we realized there was a problem. We're working with him now to fix basically everything. We're having him fill all the 3/8" holes and re-drilling for 1/4" all thread. We're going with a simple 2 sided sled with an altimeter on each side along with their batteries. Were still truing to do a video chat with him to talk him through everything that needs to be done but he has been very busy. If worst comes to worst I will tweak and fix everything when I get the altimeter bay.