dog barf

What is dog barf? I thought it meant recovery wadding but given somewhere else I read it, I think not.

Yes, that is recovery wadding. Blow-in cellulose insulation. You can get a bale at Lowes for like $10 and it will last a lifetime.

Dig barf specifically refers to cellulose insulation, which is used in place of expensive recovery wadding. Like the wadding, it is a paper product treated with a flame retardant, and it works very well. It is also dirt cheap. The minimum amount you can buy will last approximately 3 lifetimes and costs $11.

https://m.homedepot.com/p/GreenFiber-Blow-in-Fiber-Insulation-INS541LD/100318635/


Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum

Oh, the confusion must have come from someone talking about the fact that it is not branded as recovery wadding.

Thanks!

watermelonman said:

Oh, the confusion must have come from someone talking about the fact that it is not branded as recovery wadding.

Thanks!

Click to expand...

It's trickle down from high power rocketry. As the size of rockets increased the Estes paper squares just couldn't do the job anymore. Some tried fiberglass insulation but that was bad, it never goes away. Then in the same row at Home Depot someone noticed cellulose insulation has to be fire resistant to be used as insulation. Another choice is Crepe' paper. By law it has to be fireproof because of where it's used, like kid's parties, and paper streamers can too easily become paper fuses.

And the 'dog barf' is from what a pile of it looks like....especially wet.....

Another way to pinch a penny with Dog Barf is to go to your local Lowes or Home Depot store, and look for a ripped bail of this compressed blown insulation. It's not unusual to find such a bale, with a good chunk missing. If you approach a manager with an offer to buy this single ripped bale for, say under $5.00, they will usually agree...cause it means less loss for them, less mess that they need to clean up, and it keeps a customer happy.

Sometimes you'll find the bale already slipped into a clear plastic garbage bag and already marked down with a black magic marker listing the skew number and the reduced price and the manager's initials or signature. And it'll last you a lifetime.

Another way to recover this money is to buy a box of gallon ziplock baggies, and , repackage handfuls of the bail into the gallon bags, and then throw them into your trunk to resell at club launches. There's ALWAYS somebody who has either run out, or doesn't want to buy and store a bail at home. You can easily recover your initial investment, sometimes in just one sale!

Caution: Just don't leave one of these bags laying out exposed in your vehicle in case you get stopped by a traffic cop. They'll assume that it's POT and bust you before running the stuff through the lab and discovering what it really is and is not! LOL!

watermelonman said:

What is dog barf? I thought it meant recovery wadding but given somewhere else I read it, I think not.

Click to expand...

Thanks for asking that question...I had meant to get around to asking, and never did.

And here I thought I was being economical by buying baffles for my 2 inch and above tubes, when all I really need is this "dog barf" stuff (not the dog barf I clean up at home, on a regular basis).

And thanks again to everybody for their responses and directions on where to get this stuff...

My nephew forgot what we called Dog Barf, so he asked me, "What is this stuff called again? Horse Crap?"

ThirstyBarbarian said:

My nephew forgot what we called Dog Barf, so he asked me, "What is this stuff called again? Horse Crap?"

Click to expand...

LOL!

dave carver said:

It's trickle down from high power rocketry. As the size of rockets increased the Estes paper squares just couldn't do the job anymore. Some tried fiberglass insulation but that was bad, it never goes away. Then in the same row at Home Depot someone noticed cellulose insulation has to be fire resistant to be used as insulation. Another choice is Crepe' paper. By law it has to be fireproof because of where it's used, like kid's parties, and paper streamers can too easily become paper fuses.

And the 'dog barf' is from what a pile of it looks like....especially wet.....

Click to expand...

Be careful with cheap dollar store Chinese crepe paper... although "by law" it's supposed to be flameproof, some folks have reported that it will sometimes burn far better than "flameproof" would suggest...

Test first to avoid nasty surprises...

Later! OL JR

luke strawwalker said:

Be careful with cheap dollar store Chinese crepe paper... although "by law" it's supposed to be flameproof, some folks have reported that it will sometimes burn far better than "flameproof" would suggest...

Test first to avoid nasty surprises...

Later! OL JR

Click to expand...

...I'll have to check. I've got rolls from different years going back 15 or more years.

People say it will last a lifetime, but I only got 17 years out of my first bale, and I ain't dead yet!

wfcook said:

Dig barf specifically refers to cellulose insulation, which is used in place of expensive recovery wadding. Like the wadding, it is a paper product treated with a flame retardant, and it works very well. It is also dirt cheap. The minimum amount you can buy will last approximately 3 lifetimes and costs $11.

https://m.homedepot.com/p/GreenFiber-Blow-in-Fiber-Insulation-INS541LD/100318635/


Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum

Click to expand...

Look for bales that were torn open and taped shut. I found a few like this at Lowe's for half price!!

I try to get mine for 75% off. I go through 2 to 3 bales a year. I bring many bags of various sizes to our club launches. it cuts down on litter in our big public park launch site.

BalDave2 said:

Look for bales that were torn open and taped shut. I found a few like this at Lowe's for half price!!

Click to expand...

luke strawwalker said:

Be careful with cheap dollar store Chinese crepe paper... although "by law" it's supposed to be flameproof, some folks have reported that it will sometimes burn far better than "flameproof" would suggest...

Test first to avoid nasty surprises...

Later! OL JR

Click to expand...

I happened into a Party Supply Store one day with my Son to look around, and saw that they had Crepe Paper Streamer Rolls. It was not the Dollar Store, but the stuff was still all just a Dollar. When I got home I tried to burn some and it is fire retardent. Used it a few times now with good results, and think that I will stick with it. I recovered a section of it once after a launch, and it only had some slight brown charring on a little bit of it. It seems to float away instead of raining down in chunks like the Recovery Wadding does.

You can use anything for recovery wadding provided that it is flameproof. I've heard of people using lettuce. All it needs to do is absorb burning bits of BP and be movable. As it stands, I have tons of dog barf in my basement that I probably will never work through. But it is so much easier to pinch and dump a little in than having to count and rip off those sheets.

TopRamen said:

I happened into a Party Supply Store one day with my Son to look around, and saw that they had Crepe Paper Streamer Rolls. It was not the Dollar Store, but the stuff was still all just a Dollar. When I got home I tried to burn some and it is fire retardent. Used it a few times now with good results, and think that I will stick with it. I recovered a section of it once after a launch, and it only had some slight brown charring on a little bit of it. It seems to float away instead of raining down in chunks like the Recovery Wadding does.

Click to expand...

Great... glad to hear it! BUT...

Others have reported on here and elsewhere buying cheap crepe paper made in China and finding that the quality control was sorely lacking... the stuff was burning on the way down, which is a big no-no... it's why we don't use toilet paper (though I did flying on my own farm back in the 80's, when I was flying out in green growing crops and bare dirt fields...).

SO, "caveat emptor"... let the buyer beware... test the stuff first to make sure... Because evidently, whatever 'regulatory' agencies are SUPPOSED to be making sure it's flameproof aren't really doing much about it... (probably too busy harassing Estes into putting plain chutes in their rockets instead of ones printed with Chinese ink that contains too much lead...)

Just sayin! OL JR

Bat-mite said:

You can use anything for recovery wadding provided that it is flameproof. I've heard of people using lettuce. All it needs to do is absorb burning bits of BP and be movable. As it stands, I have tons of dog barf in my basement that I probably will never work through. But it is so much easier to pinch and dump a little in than having to count and rip off those sheets.

Click to expand...

No, you can't... use pillow ticking (which is also flameproof by law) or fiberglass insulation, and you'll probably be looking for a new launch field... (sure would around here anyway!)

Just because it's 'flameproof' doesn't mean it CAN be used for wadding... though you are correct about lettuce, cabbage leaves, etc. being used, so long as they're BIODEGRADABLE... Need to be responsible and keep your landowner happy if you like having a place to fly...

Later! OL JR

Adding dog barf to shopping list.:marshmallow:

I've had my bale for about 10years, hardly made a dent in it.

3 years going on 4 on the ripped bale I got. It's used on all tube sizes, from the little 13mm up to 7.5 inch. Given the dent I've put in the bale, and doing some barely-caffeinated calculations here at my desk, I'm pretty sure Pu-239 has a shorter half-life.


Later!

--Coop

luke strawwalker said:

No, you can't... use pillow ticking (which is also flameproof by law) or fiberglass insulation, and you'll probably be looking for a new launch field... (sure would around here anyway!)

Just because it's 'flameproof' doesn't mean it CAN be used for wadding... though you are correct about lettuce, cabbage leaves, etc. being used, so long as they're BIODEGRADABLE... Need to be responsible and keep your landowner happy if you like having a place to fly...

Later! OL JR

Click to expand...

VERY good point! Must be biodegradable. That was a poor oversight on my part.

Bat-mite said:

VERY good point! Must be biodegradable. That was a poor oversight on my part.

Click to expand...

Okey-doke...

Didn't want to "slam" ya but I DID want to point out to any newbs that they shouldn't be using stuff like that and create virtually permanent litter... not good for livestock and all that and probably PO the club or flying field landowner to the point they could lose their field...

Later! OL JR

One little trick I've found over the last Decade or so.

Using dog Barf only in LPR and MPR models I've had several Plastic and Nylon chutes damaged by "Blow-By" embers. To remedy this I started using a single sheet of Estes FP wadding below the 2 to 3 diameters of Dog Barf then a single sheet or two on top and around the Chute or streamer. Vastly extends a pack of Estes expensive wadding while giving positive protection for my chutes. Since starting this practice I have not had another burned hole or melted chute or streamer. With models over 4" diameter I use 3 overlapping sheets on the bottom to get complete coverage.

Micromeister said:

One little trick I've found over the last Decade or so.

Using dog Barf only in LPR and MPR models I've had several Plastic and Nylon chutes damaged by "Blow-By" embers. To remedy this I started using a single sheet of Estes FP wadding below the 2 to 3 diameters of Dog Barf then a single sheet or two on top and around the Chute or streamer. Vastly extends a pack of Estes expensive wadding while giving positive protection for my chutes. Since starting this practice I have not had another burned hole or melted chute or streamer. With models over 4" diameter I use 3 overlapping sheets on the bottom to get complete coverage.

Click to expand...

That has got to be one of the more ingenious ideas I've heard of late. I've had similar issues on occastion so I have to try that. Completely makes sense. Now on my 4" L1 rocket I think I put in about 8" to 12" worth of dog barf so it's rarely I have an issue there but not every rocket has that kind of space inside.

I've been using Borax to make flame resistant coffee filters .
Rex

The two clubs I launch at in MN ban anything except dog barf (obviously, fire resistant blankets like Nomex, are allowed). But they provide it for the membership and even allow you to fill a zip-lock bag of it to use when you're not flying at a club launch. It is also a lot less messy than the Estes paper wadding. Imagine 100 rockets with 2-4 sheets each being launched at a field in one day. The dog barf breaks into a lot of small, bio-degradable particles. It doesn't make for the eye-sore that the tissue does.

CZ Brat said:

The two clubs I launch at in MN ban anything except dog barf (obviously, fire resistant blankets like Nomex, are allowed). But they provide it for the membership and even allow you to fill a zip-lock bag of it to use when you're not flying at a club launch. It is also a lot less messy than the Estes paper wadding. Imagine 100 rockets with 2-4 sheets each being launched at a field in one day. The dog barf breaks into a lot of small, bio-degradable particles. It doesn't make for the eye-sore that the tissue does.

Click to expand...

Cz brat:
Our club is one of the larger one's in the nation. we have Hundreds of Models launched the 3rd Saterday of nearly EVERY month. Some months we don't quite break the 100 flight mark but they are RARE Months. Many of our Club members and Public fliers use Estes Wadding only. Many of us use dog Barf and I and a few others use the combination discribed in my earlier post.
Estes Wadding IS biodegradable, breaking down very quickly. If retrieved the same day can be reused which some of us also do.
The Club flys from a State Park, do you really think the state would allow us to use this wadding (Estes and Dog Barf) if it were an Eye-Sore.
Your observation is simply and totally incorrect.

Chris Michielssen did a test on his blog - the Estes wadding disintegrated in days...
https://modelrocketbuilding.blogspot.com/2014/05/unscientific-wadding-degrade-test.html

Micromeister said:

Cz brat:
Our club is one of the larger one's in the nation. we have Hundreds of Models launched the 3rd Saterday of nearly EVERY month. Some months we don't quite break the 100 flight mark but they are RARE Months. Many of our Club members and Public fliers use Estes Wadding only. Many of us use dog Barf and I and a few others use the combination discribed in my earlier post.
Estes Wadding IS biodegradable, breaking down very quickly. If retrieved the same day can be reused which some of us also do.
The Club flys from a State Park, do you really think the state would allow us to use this wadding (Estes and Dog Barf) if it were an Eye-Sore.
Your observation is simply and totally incorrect.

Click to expand...

WEEEeeelll...

I've walked the pasture after a club launch here and picked up a pocketful of spent wadding to reuse, so it's not as far fetched as one might think.

Probably a lot depends on your conditions. Agree that the stuff won't persist for a LONG time in the environment, being akin to a Kleenex in consistency, BUT, it will be a bit more long-lasting and CERTAINLY more visible than the tiny particles of dog barf...

Later! OL JR