Spray Paints for Rockets

OK, I've gone through a progression of ideas for paints for my rockets.
First, I started with using only what was already on hand at home...left-over sky blue, red, basic white...for the Freedom II rocket that was my first...
Then, I started changing up my paints a little, still sticking to the original design.
Eventually, I shelled out for a can of Yellow, and most all my rockets were yellow base with black accents...
Now, I've finally invested in a couple of cans for white primer, and then accent colors for the specific look that I want. (I never wanted to build up a paint library...but...)

It occurs to me that I have inherited a short stubby can of Testor spray model paint, and that I could have saved myself a $3.69 can of Rustoleum Gloss Purple Gloss paint by using the Testors can for the accent.
My question is, "Are Testor's model spray paints (designed for plastic model cars, trains, plains, etc) compatable with Rustoleum, or Krylon products?"
Seems that I have tried a quick shot of one "clearish purple" over something like White Krylon primer or gloss finish and found that it beaded up and ran off, looking horrible. (Now, I didn't sand, as this was a mini-mosquito) But since it was just a sample shot, I didn't approach the paint job seriously, cause I figured I was going to loose it anyway...I don't know if I've still got the experiment. I think I lost it.

What say you, oh painting gods and rocketeers?
Should I have experimented on such a large rocket as the Neon XL, or did I do right investing in a large can of Gloss Purple that I'll probably never use up and maybe never use again?

When I did my upscale Orbital Interceptor, I used Rusto 2X for the white background and used a shade of blue by Testor's for the wing tips because it was the closest match to the decals. I applied the Testor's over Rusto flat white and it worked just fine.

Paint...oh, I could go off on a paint rant, but I wont. Rusto 2X has been my choice of coats for a while now. If I really wanna get that perfect shade, I go with auto colors. Bottom line, you aren't likely to get the primo color satisfaction from your average can of spray. Choosing primers has also been a lesson learned. Automotive primers has improved my paint finishing a great lot. There's another bottom line here. YMMV with what you use. Some people can make Krylon spit perfection. Some can't. Some use Rusto and get a sad finish, some don't. It's all about what works for you. This is one of those areas that requires patience, AND CHOKING UP THE BUCK....if you have great expectations.

Remember prep work is the foundation of a good finish, but not all Rustoleum is created equal!

They have several formulations. Their standard lineup is enamel I believe (read the instructions, if it says "recoat in two hours or two weeks", it's enamel). Enamel has the problem that it never dries very hard, and if you do not follow their recoat window, you will get a nasty surprise! Wal Mart cheap paints are notorious for this. That said, Rustoleum Painter's Touch is lacquer, Krylon is lacquer, and both are fine as far as compatibility goes. Lacquer may be more expensive but they are very forgiving when it comes to recoat window and mistakes, since their coats just burn into each other making repairs easy.

I forgot what Testors are but read the can's instruction. If it says "dries to touch in 30 minutes" and "recoat anytime" then it's lacquer. If it says "dries in two hours" and "recoat in two hours or two weeks" then it's enamel. I try to avoid Testors if I can, it's not bad but it's expensive.

taiwanluthiers said:

If it says "dries to touch in 30 minutes" and "recoat anytime" then it's lacquer. If it says "dries in two hours" and "recoat in two hours or two weeks" then it's enamel. I try to avoid Testors if I can, it's not bad but it's expensive.

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This does bring up an important point. Make extra certain that whatever paint you use for the undercoat is DRY DRY DRY before you do the trim color. I automatically allow an extra 48 hours of drying time beyond what the can says.:2:

taiwanluthiers said:

Remember prep work is the foundation of a good finish, but not all Rustoleum is created equal!

They have several formulations. Their standard lineup is enamel I believe (read the instructions, if it says "recoat in two hours or two weeks", it's enamel). Enamel has the problem that it never dries very hard, and if you do not follow their recoat window, you will get a nasty surprise! Wal Mart cheap paints are notorious for this. That said, Rustoleum Painter's Touch is lacquer, Krylon is lacquer, and both are fine as far as compatibility goes. Lacquer may be more expensive but they are very forgiving when it comes to recoat window and mistakes, since their coats just burn into each other making repairs easy.

I forgot what Testors are but read the can's instruction. If it says "dries to touch in 30 minutes" and "recoat anytime" then it's lacquer. If it says "dries in two hours" and "recoat in two hours or two weeks" then it's enamel. I try to avoid Testors if I can, it's not bad but it's expensive.

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This may be true in your locale (overseas IIRC??) but here in the good ol' USA, the EPA (four letter word LOL) has instituted VOC regulations (volatile organic solvents) that have basically forced ALL "consumer paints" (Do-it-yourselfer type rattle-can store-bought paints generally available to the public, which is most all the "name brands" like Krylon and Rusto) to be enamel formulations. The various companies have also tweaked their brands enough chemically that compatibility and their application and final finish quality is often very very different, and varies widely with application conditions, methods, and location.

In the US, unless you're SPECIFICALLY buying "industrial coatings" from an industrial supply chain like Fastenal, Grainger's, etc, you're getting ENAMEL paints in Krylon and Rusto. Rusto DOES have a limited line of lacquers (appliance paint) but not with a vary wide color range. Duplicolor brand carries a much wider palette of colors in both enamel and lacquer for auto finishes and touch up, and is widely available at auto-parts stores. Most of the "homeowner" type paints in various retail stores like Walmart, Lowe's, Home Depot, etc, however, are almost exclusively enamel formulations...

Most don't even really tell you the formulation anymore... you have to "infer it" from the instructions... "recoat anytime" and "cures in 24 hours" USUALLY indicates a lacquer type product, BUT COMPANIES PLAY FAST AND LOOSE WITH "ADVERTISEMENT", so it does NOT guarantee that it's a lacquer or will perform as advertised!

If it says "recoat in 20 minutes or after 24-48 hours" or thereabouts and/or "cures in 2-5 days" (or something to that effect) it's a safe bet it's some sort of enamel...

The only REAL way to "be sure" that any two paints will play nice with each other in subsequent coats anymore is to do a PAINT TEST using as similar to the actual spray applications and recoat times as possible, and judge the results. Some paints are FAR finickier than others in how they behave when applied over previous coats, even of their own brand!

Hope this helps! OL JR

Kirk G said:

... Seems that I have tried a quick shot of one "clearish purple" over something like White Krylon primer or gloss finish and found that it beaded up and ran off, looking horrible....

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Beaded up and ran off???

Really?

Man that sucks... I mean you can still buy lacquers in cans (Deft for example, but only in clear coats) however I never seen good compatibility with lacquer on top of enamels. They wrinkle up if it doesn't like you. I guess the only other option for good durable paint is the Killer Can from Alsa Corp but that is expensive. Automotive 2k paints are also very good, cures fast and hard and is essentially inert once cured. Could probably be sprayed with Preval or similar but the paint is bad for you... respirator is a must.

IMHO I just hate enamels, they are finicky and never cures harder than say a soft urethane tire. I must be spoiled because in Taiwan nearly all spray paint sold here are lacquer. I know this because I paint guitars with them sometimes when a customer requests a solid color. I would NEVER EVER paint a guitar with enamel. The paint would wrinkle as soon as you clear coat it, and if you don't clear coat it, the paint would have dust and hair embedded in it even after 2 years of cure time. I stripped a guitar painted in enamel, it sucks and looks very ugly. I painted it with automotive spray paint, clear coated it (unfortunately clear coat is yellow, all nitrocellulose lacquer is yellow, keep this in mind for light colors) and after about a month of cure polished it up. (despite what anyone tells you, nitrocellulose lacquer takes about a month to "cure" hard enough to polish and handle scratches, acrylic lacquer never gets hard enough but remains somewhat flexible. "cure" means the solvent gasses off and the paint gets harder and shrinks, this can take a while)

I think the only advantage enamels have is price, they are pretty cheap. I'd personally (when I get a build going) go with House of Kolor and a preval...

This brings up a question I've had.

In the Handbook of Model Rocketry, in specifically discussing paint the authors outright say, "The best is Krylon (p. 59, 7th Edition)." They don't say why it is the best, other than it is more expensive than the cheaper brands. In the Handbook, to my reading at least, it can be unclear as to how old some of the text is; that is, has it been left unchanged since Harry Stine wrote it in earlier editions or is it from Bill Stine, revising the book several decades later?

I wonder if the Krylon reference is left over from when it was a lacquer-based paint?

I thought Krylon was lacquer too, because it is fairly forgiving and dries pretty fast. I have no idea what it is now. I think it was left from when Krylon (was?) lacquer because I remember reading that too.

MichaelRapp said:

This brings up a question I've had.

In the Handbook of Model Rocketry, in specifically discussing paint the authors outright say, "The best is Krylon (p. 59, 7th Edition)." They don't say why it is the best, other than it is more expensive than the cheaper brands. In the Handbook, to my reading at least, it can be unclear as to how old some of the text is; that is, has it been left unchanged since Harry Stine wrote it in earlier editions or is it from Bill Stine, revising the book several decades later?

I wonder if the Krylon reference is left over from when it was a lacquer-based paint?

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For the newbs to the subject...

Yes, you make excellent points. MANY things in the "HBOMR" goes back to the original editions by G. Harry... this may well be one of them. Here's why...

OLD Krylon (lacquer formulation) was essentially considered "THE" best rattlecan spray paint for rockets from the 70's through the 90's/early 2000's (whenever the VOC regulations took effect and forced "old Krylon" off the market, which I don't recall exactly ATM). Its "recoat anytime" properties were especially prized for putting multiple color coats on rockets to make complex paint schemes, a trait permitted due to its being a lacquer formulation with a "fast", "hot" solvent that flashed off rapidly. Of course lacquers, being harder (as mentioned in other posts) also makes it somewhat more vulnerable to chipping and less flexible, causing possible cracking over time.

"Old" Krylon started to disappear in the early 2000's IIRC... I know I needed some to replicate the "Zooch method" for doing the complex brownish-orange color of shuttle External Tanks, and had a very difficult time finding the "old Krylon" materials... I did a series of paint tests of tubes in the Zooch Shuttle thread, researching various combinations of materials, including the "new Krylon" equivalents which were about all that was available from that point on.

The VOC regulations forced the replacement of the lacquer formulation with an enamel one. Thus "new Krylon" was born. Unfortunately it seems that Krylon jumped on the bandwagon of the "go with the cheapest formula possible" and turned their product into a crappy alkyd enamel, really NO better than the cheapest average 99 cent a can stuff you could get ANYWHERE, FAR cheaper than the substandard NEW Krylon, which has pretty much coasted on the old stuff's reputation... and a healthy dose of "gimmicks" since then, like touting their new fancy-shmancy "flat fan" nozzles, which aren't as good at atomizing and applying paint evenly (especially to rockets) as the plain-Jane old regular cone type nozzles found on 99 cent a can stuff...

Of course the VOC regulations also forced the same changes onto all the other "consumer" paint brands at the same time. Old Krylon lives on, but it's ONLY available from "industrial supplys" like Grainger, etc. as an 'industrial coating'. The color palette is also greatly diminished from the old Krylon available colors. Most companies jumped on the "el cheapo" bandwagon and just sold cheap alkyd enamel formulations. The various companies have "tweaked" their formulas in attempts to make it more "functional" and "appealing" to the average consumer, but which really bring no value to the hobbyist, and usually end up just making the paint finish, durability, application, and compatibility lower in quality or more problematic.

There are still some hobbyists that ascribe to the older methods, back before rattlecans really came onto the scene for painting rockets... using model airplane "dope" finishes... but they're smelly, expensive, and difficult to apply. But, it was the main method used back in the early days of rocketry...

Nowdays, it basically comes down to whatever you can obtain fairly easily that works well for you.

Good luck! OL JR

That's your opinion and I disagree with it.

luke strawwalker said:

MANY things in the "HBOMR" goes back to the original editions by G. Harry... this may well be one of them. Here's why...

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Thanks for posting that detailed reply. I've picked up a few cans of Krylon (thankfully, each with a 40% off coupon) and see what my experience is with them.

And you're right, it looks like with Industrial Krylon you can chose from only Black, Cherry Red, Clear, Flat White, Gloss White, and.....Gray.

What about Duplicolor/Plasticote car touch up paints? They should have good color selection.

taiwanluthiers said:

What about Duplicolor/Plasticote car touch up paints? They should have good color selection.

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Duplicolor is all I use. Not much for switching round with paints. I find something that works and stay with it. Most of my rocket paint jobs are no more than two color and for me paint is to protect the rocket. Base color accent colors. Their primers are exceptional!

bradycros said:

That's your opinion and I disagree with it.

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Thanks for adding to the discussion! Perhaps for the benefit of the community you could elaborate on which opinion you disagree with, and why. I like reading these paint discussions to learn, and I learn nothing from posts like that.

taiwanluthiers said:

What about Duplicolor/Plasticote car touch up paints? They should have good color selection.

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Duplicolor produces both lacquers and enamels for car touch up... that's why you have to be careful that you make sure which one you have, and match your primer and paints so you don't have any "UH-OH!" moments!

Later! OL JR