Future build idea: Researching the RIM-67 Standard

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K'Tesh

K'Tesh

.....OpenRocket's ..... "Chuck Norris"
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Ok, I love the lines of the Tartar, But in researching it, I came across the RIM-67 Standard. OOOOHHHH!!!! Pretty!!!


RIM-67B_Standard.jpg
Photo by Lt. Raine (found on Wikipedia)

Anybody got a decent dimensional drawing of it?

I'm thinking that it'd be a good candidate for a 2.5-4" OD HPR build.

Thanks!
Jim
 
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K'Tesh said:
Ok, I love the lines of the Tartar, But in researching it, I came across the RIM-67 Standard. OOOOHHHH!!!! Pretty!!!


View attachment 247599
Photo by Lt. Raine (found on Wikipedia)

Anybody got a decent dimensional drawing of it?

I'm thinking that it'd be a good candidate for a 2.5-4" OD HPR build.

Thanks!
Jim
Click to expand...

Probably easier to find if you call it "Standard Missile 1", "Standard Missile 2" or SM1, SM2. You will need to be careful, by design they are only very slightly dynamically stable. Those chines up the side bring the CP pretty far forward so the it can maneuver in the end-game.

I googled "SM-2 missile scale model" and came up with a nice article with everything you could possibly need. It is 9.8MB so I couldn't just attach it here.
 
enderw88 said:
Probably easier to find if you call it "Standard Missile 1", "Standard Missile 2" or SM1, SM2. You will need to be careful, by design they are only very slightly dynamically stable. Those chines up the side bring the CP pretty far forward so the it can maneuver in the end-game.

I googled "SM-2 missile scale model" and came up with a nice article with everything you could possibly need. It is 9.8MB so I couldn't just attach it here.
Click to expand...

"Chines"? Never heard them called that before.
 
enderw88 said:
They are also called dorsals. I have heard both pretty interchangeably over the years.
Click to expand...

Sweet. Thanks for the Info, as I like learning about Military Missiles the most, since they have an actual Historical Signifigance, as opposed to Fantasy Models. I like them all, don't get me wrong, I just like the ones I can incorporate into my Knowledge of actual Military History the best.
K'Tesh, I hope you take a shot at this one, and don't let the Chines or Dorsals or whatever you choose to call them scare you away.
Everybody always tries to tell me about stability with TLP Kits, but I build them and fly them straight as Arrows anyway. Reviewing my Launch Videos in Frame by Frame reveals that they don't even twist or corkscrew the slightest bit. Can't wait to stick the 808 on my Martel for its next Launch.
Anyhow, good luck on the Build, and happy Thanksgiving.
 
I've simmed a 4" in OR and it appears to be stable by a decent amount. I'm planning on building one here in the next month or two for a L1 cert rocket. It won't be 100% scale, but I think I can accurately reproduce the basic design with what is available on the market.

I'm also thinking of doing a smaller scale SM-2 ER, two stage. I'll have to dig around for a nose cone, but I think I've got all the parts I need sitting around the house already.

I pulled up a bunch of data through the Wayback machine. Someone had a site with a bunch of good scale data that sadly is gone, but I was able to retrieve drawings of the Standard and Terrier missiles that way.
 
Ok, now I'm home, and I'm not trying to text w/my smartphone.

@ enderw88: Thanks for that link. I was looking for images, didn't think to look for scale modeling.

@ TopRamen: The only reasons I haven't started building it already is my cash flow and time constraints. Now that I'm home, I'll see what I can do with OR.

@ byoungblood: I'd love to see your build as it progresses, and if you don't mind, I'd really like to see your .ork file.

Pointy Side Up!
Jim
 
Amazing what a night's sleep can do for your thoughts.

Um... I have a number of unfinished (unstarted) Leviathans thanks to my commercial build... Hmmm....



I'm not finalized on lengths, but I based the fins on the scale drawings enderw88 linked to. Thank goodness I was able to modify the drawings to work in OR. As it stands now I only needed 2oz. to make it stable.

I'm thinking 38mm powered.
 
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Here's the ORK file of my 4" design. I'm designing it around 4" LOC tubing and the short Madcow 4" nosecone. Rear fins will be 1/4" birch ply, front ones are 1/8". I think I'm going to design it with dual deploy in mind, I probably won't use it for the cert flight, but I think I want the capability for later on.

View attachment RIM-66_4inch.rkt
 
Thanks for that byoungblood.

I'm curious how you came up with your body tube's length? I haven't been able to find anything that shows the length of the missile's nosecone.

Personally, I'm hoping to make mine pretty close to scale, save the nosecone. Until I can afford a lathe, find a matching one, or decide to try to contract someone to make it for me.
 
This may be what you are looking for...
https://www.vatsaas.org/rtv/arsenal/teamrocs/sm2hp/standard-arm1.gif
Not exactly the RIM67(with booster) RIM66 (Sustainer only) but preety darn close

If you search for Standard ARM in the rkt/ork data bases there are a few out there

My OR file is based on a Cluster R 2.6" Standard ARM kit that I scored on fleabay a couple years ago. The main fins are a little big compared to the above drawing, but it still looks the part...

You may also wish to look at this thread... https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?12971-AGM-Standard&p=112664
or the Wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIM-66_Standard

Enjoy!

View attachment Standard ARM.ork
 
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Well, I can't find the site where I found this at the moment, but I've attached the drawing I used. The stations are in inches, so with a little quick math I got the basic dimensions of the nose cone, fins, etc.

4" was roughly 30% of the diameter of the actual missile, so I simply scaled everything down from there. The Madcow cone (same one that they use on their 4" Patriot) is the closest I could find, and I think it is still about half to one inch longer than scale.

image.jpg
 
Jim, don't do it! Check out the rocket at 00:37 in this video:
[video=vimeo;73193615]https://vimeo.com/73193615[/video]

Then keep watching when it launches. Did I mention this was an L3 attempt?

If you still don't believe me - talk to a certain club member at our next meeting...
 
Wilson, did anybody figure out why it did that?

As for the next OROC meeting, unless my Homework situation improves dramatically, I'll be tied up with it, and not be able to attend the meeting. I'm thinking that January is the next meeting I'll be able to attend.
 
K'Tesh said:
Wilson, did anybody figure out why it did that?

As for the next OROC meeting, unless my Homework situation improves dramatically, I'll be tied up with it, and not be able to attend the meeting. I'm thinking that January is the next meeting I'll be able to attend.
Click to expand...
If you ask him yourself, the answer would be "Oh, I f@$%ed up!" ;)

But if my memory serves, the fins were the primary culprit as enderw88 mentioned. Add that to little subtleties like the fin fillets, and his CP was farther forward than Rocksim had indicated.
These missiles AREN'T DESIGNED to fly straight up - why do you think that launcher in the photo you posted is at such an angle?

You need to think about stability margins, same with the bugspray rocket.

Hope to see you at the January meeting for sure - there will be free pizza...if you come with a club membership in hand! :)
 
jimzcatz said:
I have been building the AGM-78 Standard arm for years. The RIM-67 is the 2 stage version. Sather did a beautiful model a few years ago. I currently have a 7.5" in my fleet.

Try this https://www.varocketry.com/RIM-67 Drawings.htm
Click to expand...

That's the site I was trying to find!

I'm showing about 1.6 cal stability with a 38mm H123 loaded. Worst case with a J570 is 1.12 cal. Do you think that is too narrow considering the effect of the strakes?
 
AlnessW said:
These missiles AREN'T DESIGNED to fly straight.
Click to expand...

Fixed that for you. These are surface to air intercept missiles. They can turn at very high Gs in the last few seconds of flight in order to hit their target. They have an active guidance system that keeps them going the direction they intend. The high G manuevering requirements dictate that they have very small dynamic stability. RAM missiles are actually UNSTABLE at all times during flight and depend on the guidance system to keep them from shredding.

If the guidance system on an SM-2 fails such that the control fins are locked straight, the flights look pretty much just like that one. Do not build an exact scale model of this missile and assume it will be dynamically stable. It will not be unless you have incredible nose weight. Go 30% over on the control fins and 30% smaller on the dorsals.
 
K'Tesh said:
Wilson, did anybody figure out why it did that?

As for the next OROC meeting, unless my Homework situation improves dramatically, I'll be tied up with it, and not be able to attend the meeting. I'm thinking that January is the next meeting I'll be able to attend.
Click to expand...

Looks like it locked onto a ground target immediately after liftoff...

Worked as intended! LOL:) :cool: Extra mission points!!!

Later! OL JR :)
 
enderw88 said:
Fixed that for you. These are surface to air intercept missiles. They can turn at very high Gs in the last few seconds of flight in order to hit their target. They have an active guidance system that keeps them going the direction they intend. The high G manuevering requirements dictate that they have very small dynamic stability. RAM missiles are actually UNSTABLE at all times during flight and depend on the guidance system to keep them from shredding.

If the guidance system on an SM-2 fails such that the control fins are locked straight, the flights look pretty much just like that one. Do not build an exact scale model of this missile and assume it will be dynamically stable. It will not be unless you have incredible nose weight. Go 30% over on the control fins and 30% smaller on the dorsals.
Click to expand...
Cool - thanks for sharing.

luke strawwalker said:
Looks like it locked onto a ground target immediately after liftoff...

Worked as intended! LOL:) :cool: Extra mission points!!!

Later! OL JR :)
Click to expand...
You're exactly right! :D There was LOTS of amusing commentary after that launch, some of which included "Hey, it worked perfectly! I've seen those missiles fly before, and that's pretty much what they look like..."
 
Well, the bad news for me is that I may have to return this to the back burner for a while.

The good news is that the reason that I might need to is that my commercial build may be coming to fruition, and I need the parts I intended for this to go back to their original purpose... Oh, and if all goes well, I get my Velociraptor. :cool:
 
K'Tesh said:
Well, the bad news for me is that I may have to return this to the back burner for a while.

The good news is that the reason that I might need to is that my commercial build may be coming to fruition, and I need the parts I intended for this to go back to their original purpose... Oh, and if all goes well, I get my Velociraptor. :cool:
Click to expand...
Been talking to Fisher, I see?
 
AlnessW said:
Been talking to Fisher, I see?
Click to expand...

Yes, we've been in communication. However, the Velociraptor is my reward for building 6 stretched Leviathans for the same company I built my first stretched Leviathan for. The Velociraptor isn't in any way or form an exchange with Binder Designs for anything.

Once I land the contract, I'll tell you who I've built the Leviathans for, but not until then. I'll tell you this though. The original isn't in hiding. If you know where to go, and where to look, you can see it.
 
Ok... My commercial build hasn't materialized, and I'm really wanting to build. I've got much of what I need to get started. However, I still can't read those dimensions from the drawings. My goal is to sim the rocket in OR at full scale, then use the scaling feature to reduce it to 3" OD, and then alter the nosecone to match the Leviathan's.

From what I can make out in the drawing below, it's a Standard Missile ER Type 1. I like it, and from what I can tell based on the info from the PDF that enderw88 linked to, it looks like the same missile. I'm not interested in building the booster, nor making it a two stage rocket at this time.

I realize that the station numbers are the length (in inches), but it's a little weird in the image. If I'm reading it correctly at STA 33.08, it's indicated that the nosecone is 6.51 diameter, but behind that is STA 28.30 (nose tangent), and ahead of it is 25.08 (which is the point of the nosecone). I can't find a STA 0 for me to base my .ork on.

Thanks!
Jim

attachment.php
 
K'Tesh said:
Ok... My commercial build hasn't materialized, and I'm really wanting to build. I've got much of what I need to get started. However, I still can't read those dimensions from the drawings. My goal is to sim the rocket in OR at full scale, then use the scaling feature to reduce it to 3" OD, and then alter the nosecone to match the Leviathan's.

From what I can make out in the drawing below, it's a Standard Missile ER Type 1. I like it, and from what I can tell based on the info from the PDF that enderw88 linked to, it looks like the same missile. I'm not interested in building the booster, nor making it a two stage rocket at this time.

I realize that the station numbers are the length (in inches), but it's a little weird in the image. If I'm reading it correctly at STA 33.08, it's indicated that the nosecone is 6.51 diameter, but behind that is STA 28.30 (nose tangent), and ahead of it is 25.08 (which is the point of the nosecone). I can't find a STA 0 for me to base my .ork on.

Thanks!
Jim

attachment.php
Click to expand...

Subtract 25.08 from every STA number and that will give a ZERO starting point at the nose cone...
 
KidRockET said:
Subtract 25.08 from every STA number and that will give a ZERO starting point at the nose cone...
Click to expand...

Exactly. A lot of real world vehicles use a non-zero point at the nose so the vehicle can be stretched forward without having negative station numbers.
 

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