powder charges and permits

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

watermelonman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2014
Messages
2,597
Reaction score
10
At last I have all the certification levels and processes straight. In fact I am on my way to a flight test in two weeks if weather holds! Thanks all who answered so many of my questions.

Next question, what is up with permits and whatnot for black powder charges? It sounds like one needs a low explosive user permit? Where do I start, and how difficult is that? Also where do most people get their powder itself, local gun shop?
 
At last I have all the certification levels and processes straight. In fact I am on my way to a flight test in two weeks if weather holds! Thanks all who answered so many of my questions.

Next question, what is up with permits and whatnot for black powder charges? It sounds like one needs a low explosive user permit? Where do I start, and how difficult is that? Also where do most people get their powder itself, local gun shop?

Guess that depends on your Location.
 
There's lots of places to buy BP. On-line and probably local depending where you live. If you belong to a club and there is a vendor at launch selling motors, then he's probably got BP for sale.
 
If you use electronics for deployment you can extract the BP from (for example) the ejection charge module on a CTI reload, fill the space with epoxy to plug it (some suggest epoxying in a 1 cent coin to make extra sure) and you then have BP to use for your ejection charges...
 
There used to be a Low Explosives User Permit (LEUP) that was needed back in the days when the government decided our motors were explosive. It allowed for a relatively small amount of explosives to be kept by the permit holder. Now it has given way to a single permit regardless of the amount you wish to have and use. I don't recall how much it costs, but it t isn't cheap and opens yourself up to inspections from various law enforcement agencies.

That being said, if your intended use is for black powder firearms, you can purchase and own several pounds at a time with some max per year that covers most people. Further, there is no real record keeping to easily tie the amount to a person unless all is purchased at the same location.

I would never tell you what you should do. But am told that a pound of black powder lasts for years. And if asked, a simple response of firing black powder pistol or rifle is regarded as appropriate.


Kirk
 
Since fffffg is no longer available (afaik, it was only made by Elephant brand powders), ffffg is also used to prime flintlock muzzleloader flash pans.

1gram of BP is approximately 15.4 gains so a 1lb canister (7000 grains) of BP will yield about 227.27 2gram ejection charges.

Edit: Schutzen Powders Swiss brand powder offers a OB which is a finer grind than 4fg BP.
https://www.schuetzenpowder.com/swiss-black-powder
 
Last edited:
Very true as soon as you use it for anything other than a muzzleloader the exemption goes bye-bye (same for smokeless powders for modern firearms and BP subsitutes per the 2013 ATF ruling)

So if one wants to follow the letter of the law and still do dual deployment, what other options are available? Would you need to use something like a CO2 canister?
 
So if one wants to follow the letter of the law and still do dual deployment, what other options are available? Would you need to use something like a CO2 canister?

some of those use BP to pierce the CO2.... not sure if all do.

The other option is to get an explosives permit.
 
....think this is exempt?

[video=youtube;KeNP4i47oeU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeNP4i47oeU[/video]

Might be my second favorite thing to do with black powder :D
 
....think this is exempt?

[video=youtube;KeNP4i47oeU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeNP4i47oeU[/video]

Might be my second favorite thing to do with black powder :D

Well...looks like he did use a cannon breech block as the launching base...but probably not. BTW thats kinda cool (and stupid).
 
You can use another Anvil for the Base, and seal the two together with Peanut Butter.:)

I saw the video by team Bollinger, the peanut butter was actually used to seal the paper to the top anvil so that the powder in that cavity didn't fall out when they turned it over, pretty good idea really since the PB wouldn't have much effect if a little got on the BP, and it would be easier to clean off later. I never realized that Anvil shooting was an accuracy event more than an altitude event, but they measure how far the projected anvil lands from the launching base.

In the above video I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the cannon breech block he was using as a launch base was made between the end of the Civil War and pre-WWI.
 
There used to be a Low Explosives User Permit (LEUP) that was needed back in the days when the government decided our motors were explosive. It allowed for a relatively small amount of explosives to be kept by the permit holder. Now it has given way to a single permit regardless of the amount you wish to have and use. I don't recall how much it costs, but it t isn't cheap and opens yourself up to inspections from various law enforcement agencies.

That being said, if your intended use is for black powder firearms, you can purchase and own several pounds at a time with some max per year that covers most people. Further, there is no real record keeping to easily tie the amount to a person unless all is purchased at the same location.

I would never tell you what you should do. But am told that a pound of black powder lasts for years. And if asked, a simple response of firing black powder pistol or rifle is regarded as appropriate.


Kirk

That LEUP was exactly what I had in mind, and what I was concerned about. Glad to hear it is not an issue for my level of quantities!

Thanks much.
 
Diz, now that we are at Anvil launching, should one of us dig up Doc's page on the bowling ball mortar?

-Hans
 
Back
Top