Big low and slow rocket for H and I motors?

I recently got my L1 cert on a modified Mega Der Red Max (my "Pod Rocket"). It had some nice flights on H115DM motors at the launch where I certed. It could probably handle some I motors too. But I really like flying it on G's for nice low and slow flights. The pods make it look extra large, it has a lot of drag, and it is a very stable flyer, so the flights to around 500 feet are slow and dramatic. And it is heavier than stock by quite a lot, so it has an extra large parachute, which is fun to watch deploy at such a low altitude.

I'll be getting a G-Force for Christmas, which I think will also deliver nice low and slow flights on G motors too. It's a big rocket that will be fun to fly at my club's monthly LPR launches, and if I want to fly it higher, it should handle H motors fine too when I go to he HPR launches.

What I am looking for now is recommendations for similar large-sized rocket's for low and slow flights on motors in the level 1 range --- H and I motors. It's fine if it can handle J's as well, but I'm in no rush for a Level 2 cert, so something solidly in the level 1 category would be ideal. I'm looking for something that can still take off on an H, and won't go out of sight on an I. It would be nice to have a good range of motors to choose from. I'd like to stick with motor ejection for now, and I'm not interested in fiberglass kits.

One rocket I'm strongly considering is the LOC Warlock. It's a 7.5" airframe, so it's pretty big. It has a 38mm mount. It can fly H - J motors, and looks like it won't go too high on H or I motors. Base drag on a 7.5 airframe and light weight should keep it low.

For just a little bit more money, you can get the LOC Doorknob --- 10" longer than the Warlock, 4 fins instead of 3, a 54mm mount, and 22 oz heavier. I really love the scale of this rocket, and the proportions are a little more pleasing to me than the Warlock. But I'm thinking the extra size and weight mean that motor selection in the H and I range will be more limited than it would be for the Warlock. It seems like it is going to want mostly Level 2 motors.

What do you think of these two rockets? What else should I consider? Any other kits wit a 5+" airframe that fly nicely on H and I motors but don't go very high?

I did mine on a LOC EZI-65 a long time ago. Nice and slow, can be flown with a G and when used for certification it flies low so you get an easy certification. Just don't fly it with a J350 unless you like confetti

The LOC I Rock comes to mind. 54" tall 5.5" dial 38mm motor mount. Made for H-I motors. List price $151.75. If interested I could get it for you for $140.00.
Mr. Bob
Countyline Hobbies

Loc 4


Mark Koelsch
Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum

I've looked at a few options and am probably getting a Warlock eventually:
Iroc- a longer minie magg basically, H-I-J, mostly built around midrange I's from what I can tell
Big Cletus- basically a MDRM styled Iroc, same performance
Magnum- a longer 5.5 inch kit, only around 1500 on a full I. Probably too heavy for L1 motors.
5.5 V2- See Iroc and Cletus

Warlock- seems to sim around the same altitudes as the Iroc. I really like the design and it can actually clear 2K on a 5 grain I.
Doorknob- I think this is unfortunately more of a L2 rocket. Chrisattebery flew his an an I445, but it only got to 900 feet so I would probably think it's too heavy for L1 motors.

taiwanluthiers said:

I did mine on a LOC EZI-65 a long time ago. Nice and slow, can be flown with a G and when used for certification it flies low so you get an easy certification. Just don't fly it with a J350 unless you like confetti

Click to expand...

markkoelsch said:

Loc 4


Mark Koelsch
Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum

Click to expand...

Thanks, guys. I'm thinking these 4" rockets are going to go pretty high on an I motor. I'm getting a G-Force, and these seem to fit into about the same niche as that one. I'm looking for something that you could put an I motor in and have it go to mayby 1,000 - 1,500 feet max. Even lower would be fine.

bob jablonski said:

The LOC I Rock comes to mind. 54" tall 5.5" dial 38mm motor mount. Made for H-I motors. List price $151.75. If interested I could get it for you for $140.00.
Mr. Bob
Countyline Hobbies

Click to expand...

Thanks! This looks like a pretty good option.

I think the larger 5.5 or 7.5" kits are the way to go then if you want 1K on an I. If you really don't want more than 1K-2K, a Magnum could definitely work and can also fly J,K,L later on. I'm probably getting the Warlock rather than the others since it can get a bit more altitude than the Doorknob or Magnum (A few sims I ran say the Warlock can fly around 1300 on 3G motors, 2000 on 5G). Anyone flying a Warlock or Magnum on I's?

SCrocketfan said:

I've looked at a few options and am probably getting a Warlock eventually:
Iroc- a longer minie magg basically, H-I-J, mostly built around midrange I's from what I can tell
Big Cletus- basically a MDRM styled Iroc, same performance
Magnum- a longer 5.5 inch kit, only around 1500 on a full I. Probably too heavy for L1 motors.
5.5 V2- See Iroc and Cletus

Warlock- seems to sim around the same altitudes as the Iroc. I really like the design and it can actually clear 2K on a 5 grain I.
Doorknob- I think this is unfortunately more of a L2 rocket. Chrisattebery flew his an an I445, but it only got to 900 feet so I would probably think it's too heavy for L1 motors.

Click to expand...

Great analysis, as usual, SC!

The I Roc looks pretty good, and I like the looks of the rocket too.

The Big Cletus is pretty similar in appearance to the MDRM, and I still have an unbuilt MDRM, so I think I'll steer clear of that one.

The Magnum is interesting for cluster possibilities, but I haven't really gotten into that yet. And the rocket is really long!

At this point, I'd say it's between the Warlock and I Roc, and I'm leaning toward the Warlock. I'm thinking there is a good chance it flies lower than sims will show due to base drag. Everything I build ends up heavier than the product description too.

SCrocketfan said:

I think the larger 5.5 or 7.5" kits are the way to go then if you want 1K on an I. If you really don't want more than 1K-2K, a Magnum could definitely work and can also fly J,K,L later on. I'm probably getting the Warlock rather than the others since it can get a bit more altitude than the Doorknob or Magnum (A few sims I ran say the Warlock can fly around 1300 on 3G motors, 2000 on 5G). Anyone flying a Warlock or Magnum on I's?

Click to expand...

I agree the 5.5 - 7.5" kits are what I'm looking for. I guess with rockets these big, even 2k is low enough to have a good view of the entire flight, so maybe it doesn't have to be as low as I was describing. The issue I see with the Magnum is that it is long enough to start being a problem for storage and transport.

ThirstyBarbarian said:

Great analysis, as usual, SC!

The I Roc looks pretty good, and I like the looks of the rocket too.

The Big Cletus is pretty similar in appearance to the MDRM, and I still have an unbuilt MDRM, so I think I'll steer clear of that one.

The Magnum is interesting for cluster possibilities, but I haven't really gotten into that yet. And the rocket is really long!

At this point, I'd say it's between the Warlock and I Roc, and I'm leaning toward the Warlock. I'm thinking there is a good chance it flies lower than sims will show due to base drag. Everything I build ends up heavier than the product description too.

Click to expand...

Here's the sim results I have for the Warlock, no nose weight with a base drag cone. It seems like it could fly really well on midrange I's, maybe even a few larger 29mm motors. I really want to be able to fly it to around 2K on I's, so I'm going to build it light if I get one. I considered the I Roc, but it really doesn't fly any different than the Magg. Both do seem like great rockets though.

It looks like some nice 38mm motors in the 3G, 4G, 5G motors!

SC, your sims put the Warlock under 2k feet on 5 grain I motors? Do I see another drag race in our future? Warlocks on I297 Skidmarks?

ThirstyBarbarian said:

It looks like some nice 38mm motors in the 3G, 4G, 5G motors!

SC, your sims put the Warlock under 2k feet on 5 grain I motors? Do I see another drag race in our future? Warlocks on I297 Skidmarks?

Click to expand...

I just ordered a 5 grain Pro38 case, so we could definitely drag race at some point. 5 grain I motors are a bit over 2K, except the I297 since it's around 100 Ns lower. I297 is around 1800 feet, a full I puts it at around 2100.

SCrocketfan said:

I just ordered a 5 grain Pro38 case, so we could definitely drag race at some point. 5 grain I motors are a bit over 2K, except the I297 since it's around 100 Ns lower. I297 is around 1800 feet, a full I puts it at around 2100.

Click to expand...

This Warlock is calling to me. I'm thinking this may have to go on the list, along with some 38mm hardware. Now if I can just find it marked down for black Friday...

ThirstyBarbarian said:

This Warlock is calling to me. I'm thinking this may have to go on the list, along with some 38mm hardware. Now if I can just find it marked down for black Friday...

Click to expand...

Wildman may have hardware and LOC kits on sale for their Black Saturday sale...

I am a self confessed Minie Magg fan, I just like the size and performance. It also extremely easy to prep, track and recover. There are no downsides. There is something I would like to do differently if I were to build another one but having two seems silly. That's where the I-Roc comes in for me. It's essentially the same rocket but a bit heavier and longer. It will allow me to build a tracker bay into the top centering ring like I wished I did on my Magg. It's fat enough I can get my hands and arms inside it to work on. And LOC says it will only get 3800 on a J. Perfect for my Loki 740 case. I just need to make sure it has the fin lock system and check with the CFO before ordering. Oh yea, and clear out a couple of other projects first.

The dealer discount on the 5.5" and 7" LOC kits are
A lot less then the 4" and smaller. But if Tim doesn't have the bigger LOC kits on sale. I will order them at 10% off. You will just have to E-mail as I don't keep the bigger kits in stock at this time. And I can get my grubby hands on them and send them on.
Mr. Bob
Countyline Hobbies
Grovertown, IN.
574-540-1123
[email protected]
www.countylinehobbies.com

bob jablonski said:

The dealer discount on the 5.5" and 7" LOC kits are
A lot less then the 4" and smaller. But if Tim doesn't have the bigger LOC kits on sale. I will order them at 10% off. You will just have to E-mail as I don't keep the bigger kits in stock at this time. And I can get my grubby hands on them and send them on.
Mr. Bob
Countyline Hobbies
Grovertown, IN.
574-540-1123
[email protected]
www.countylinehobbies.com

Click to expand...

That about $108 for a Minnie Magg....dang....dang again...so easy to stretch....

Ain't I a stinker?
Mr. Bob

LOC expediter just made my wishlist. 54mm in rear end. Should do nicely on one grain motors or adapted down to 38

Thirsty, keep in mind that the larger a rocket is the easier it is to see at apogee.

My 4" Crayon is pretty easy for me to see at 2K so a 5.5" rocket might be just as visible at 2.5K.

o1d_dude said:

Thirsty, keep in mind that the larger a rocket is the easier it is to see at apogee.

My 4" Crayon is pretty easy for me to see at 2K so a 5.5" rocket might be just as visible at 2.5K.

Click to expand...

Should be able to watch a 4" much higher then 2K. I was able to watch my 4" L2 rocket to over 9K. My prescription sunglasses are a huge help though. Cloud conditions make a big difference too.

Handeman said:

Should be able to watch a 4" much higher then 2K. I was able to watch my 4" L2 rocket to over 9K. My prescription sunglasses are a huge help though. Cloud conditions make a big difference too.

Click to expand...

Just reporting based on my own experience. My flights thus far have all been motor deploy so I've limited myself to 2K and under flights. Long retrievals and a hilly launch site at Snow Ranch, ya know? I carry a small folding stool with me on those hikes over hill and dale.

View attachment 247306

I also bring a small pair of Nikon Traveler II binocs (10x23) which are extremely helpful when spectating those low earth orbit flights and trying to spot a wayward rocket on the ground. :]

Its easy to see my beefed up Mean Machine at 2K and it was painted white at time, it just gets hard to see when its up around 3k, i usually lose sight of it until the chute pops.

Kit- thats a good idea bringing the Binocs, I have a set of Pentax Jupiter IIs which would be about perfect (they are subcompact) one more thing for the field box.

o1d_dude said:

Thirsty, keep in mind that the larger a rocket is the easier it is to see at apogee.

My 4" Crayon is pretty easy for me to see at 2K so a 5.5" rocket might be just as visible at 2.5K.

Click to expand...

Handeman said:

Should be able to watch a 4" much higher then 2K. I was able to watch my 4" L2 rocket to over 9K. My prescription sunglasses are a huge help though. Cloud conditions make a big difference too.

Click to expand...

o1d_dude said:

Just reporting based on my own experience. My flights thus far have all been motor deploy so I've limited myself to 2K and under flights. Long retrievals and a hilly launch site at Snow Ranch, ya know? I carry a small folding stool with me on those hikes over hill and dale.

View attachment 247306

I also bring a small pair of Nikon Traveler II binocs (10x23) which are extremely helpful when spectating those low earth orbit flights and trying to spot a wayward rocket on the ground. :]

Click to expand...

rharshberger said:

Its easy to see my beefed up Mean Machine at 2K and it was painted white at time, it just gets hard to see when its up around 3k, i usually lose sight of it until the chute pops.

Kit- thats a good idea bringing the Binocs, I have a set of Pentax Jupiter IIs which would be about perfect (they are subcompact) one more thing for the field box.

Click to expand...

Thanks guys.

My eyesight is worse than most, so things get out of my range a little quicker than for some people! I think a Warlock at 2,000 feet should still be visible to me... I do have a decent pair of binoculars that I've been using at launches, and that has helped a lot.

bob jablonski said:

The dealer discount on the 5.5" and 7" LOC kits are
A lot less then the 4" and smaller. But if Tim doesn't have the bigger LOC kits on sale. I will order them at 10% off. You will just have to E-mail as I don't keep the bigger kits in stock at this time. And I can get my grubby hands on them and send them on.
Mr. Bob
Countyline Hobbies
Grovertown, IN.
574-540-1123
[email protected]
www.countylinehobbies.com

Click to expand...

Sounds good, Bob. I will let you know via email if there is anything I need that can't be ordered through the site. I've got a few things on the list, and I'm hoping I can get them through the minimum number of dealers if it will save on the order overall.

I also have some CTI hardware on the web site. I don't have a ton of it as I just started carrying it...
Mr. Bob
Countyline Hobbies
Grovertown, IN.
574-540-1123
[email protected]
www.countylinehobbies.com

Thirsty, another thing to consider is a tracker. While not totally needed for the types of rockets you are talking about, using one completely takes the stress away. I use one for every flight in every kit I have. It has totally removed the anxiety of getting them back and I can sit back and enjoy the show.


Because I am addicted, this is coming from my phone.

grouch said:

Thirsty, another thing to consider is a tracker. While not totally needed for the types of rockets you are talking about, using one completely takes the stress away. I use one for every flight in every kit I have. It has totally removed the anxiety of getting them back and I can sit back and enjoy the show.


Because I am addicted, this is coming from my phone.

Click to expand...

Thats a good point. In some terrain, you can have trouble finding a rocket that lands within a couple hundred yards. I was surprised how well alfalfa seems to swallow rockets. I got distracted in the final seconds of my Leviathan landing in an alfalfa field at TCC October Skies, and I needed help to find it. I didn't see it until I was about 10 feet away.

ThirstyBarbarian said:

Thats a good point. In some terrain, you can have trouble finding a rocket that lands within a couple hundred yards. I was surprised how well alfalfa seems to swallow rockets. I got distracted in the final seconds of my Leviathan landing in an alfalfa field at TCC October Skies, and I needed help to find it. I didn't see it until I was about 10 feet away.

Click to expand...

On my cert flight and the H175 flight, my Magg completely vanished into the alfalfa. I'm thinking of getting an Eggtimer with GPS for higher altitude flights.