Can I launch/ ignite a 2 cluster (2x estes C6-5) with my estes E launch control

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Thijs

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Hello,

I've got a question.
I am pretty new in model rocketry and I want to build my first 2 cluster rocket. (2x C6-5)
But there's a problem
I dont know if my estes E-launch control will be powerful enough to properly ignite both engines.
I hope maybe one of you guys know if it's possible.
 
Hello,

I've got a question.
I am pretty new in model rocketry and I want to build my first 2 cluster rocket. (2x C6-5)
But there's a problem
I dont know if my estes E-launch control will be powerful enough to properly ignite both engines.
I hope maybe one of you guys know if it's possible.

My advice-- use fresh batteries...

The "E" controller is just basically a *slightly* better version of the regular Estes controller... mainly just longer wires (and slightly larger IIRC) than the standard controller, to give a longer standoff distance required for the larger motors. A regular Estes controller will ignite a two-motor cluster, IF the batteries are fresh... "AA" batteries don't have much "oomf" on a good day, though... But it SHOULD work.

If you want to do cluster rockets regularly, and anything with more than two motors, you'd be FAR better off with a 12 volt launch controller that uses better batteries. I got tired of the wimpy "AA" batteries in my old Estes Solar Controller and the weird "Pola-Pulse" flat batteries in my "Power Pulse" Estes controllers, and rewired them decades ago for 12 volt external battery use-- either just jumper directly to the car battery, a lawnmower or motorcycle battery, or nowdays, a car jumper battery pack, which has enough power to launch the entire club's rockets all day and STILL boost off a Suburban with a dead battery after the launch! (plus, it does double duty riding in the trunk the rest of the time, in case you have a dead or low car battery at any time). I even eliminated the stupid dinky flashlight bulbs Estes uses for continuity by installing LED indicators (LED and resistor built together in a small housing) so that I don't have to worry about whether I have a good connection to the ignitors or a bad/loose bulb (and a second one indicates when I have a good connection with the power jumper pack or car battery).

12 volts will ignite pretty much anything you want to launch. One other helpful tidbit-- for the highest reliability in cluster launches, Quest Q2G2 ignitors are unmatched... they have a ridiculously low firing current, though, so even "AA" battery controllers can ignite them easily-- so easily, in fact, that when using an Estes controller with a light bulb continuity indicator, DO NOT do a continuity test-- the rocket will launch when you insert the key usually. To launch Q2G2's with an unmodified Estes controller, hold the button down while you do the countdown, and then insert (and push down and hold it) the safety key at "zero"... the rocket will ignite instantly...

Later and good luck! OL JR :)
 
Everything above and I would add it is important to tightly twist the igniter wires together and make a good clean contact with the clips. Igniters must be inserted all the way up to the black powder. Cherry pick good igniters if using Estes ones. Use the old Estes black-pyro ignitiers, stay away from the new white starters if you can.
 
I would add to make sure it's not too cold of a day. Alkaline batteries lose performance when it gets cold.

At our last club launch, everyone that tried to use an Estes altimeter got a no result which was attributed to it being too cold.
 
Great info here. I have been wondering about cluster launches. I am wanting to play around with an SR-71 build doing a cluster launch.
 
Great info here. I have been wondering about cluster launches. I am wanting to play around with an SR-71 build doing a cluster launch.

Lots of good info on TRF about doing that. Doing and SR 71 cluster modification is a bit tricky do to motor spacing, ignition, venting and stability issues on airplane like rockets. Definitely an upper intermediate to advanced cluster project.
 
Lots of good info on TRF about doing that. Doing and SR 71 cluster modification is a bit tricky do to motor spacing, ignition, venting and stability issues on airplane like rockets. Definitely an upper intermediate to advanced cluster project.

But man are they cool when they work!
 
Current, not voltage, activates igniters. The internal resistance of alkaline batteries increase as the temperature drops so they can't source as much current when they get cold. Rechargeable NiMH batteries have a much lower internal resistance and will source more current at all temperatures. You can always use (4) NiMH "AA" rechargeable batteries instead of (4) "AA" alkaline batteries. They will provide more current because their internal resistance is lower, and they are rechargeable so you won't have to buy anymore.

Bob
 
Wooow thank you all verry much for your answers.
I have been looking on the internet now and unfortunately my local hobby store only has the estes and klima igniters.
But they also have bug ignitors.
Perhaps anyone knows if I can use these to ignite my C6-5 engines, and if I can cluster them.
 
Lots of good info on TRF about doing that. Doing and SR 71 cluster modification is a bit tricky do to motor spacing, ignition, venting and stability issues on airplane like rockets. Definitely an upper intermediate to advanced cluster project.

I have been doing a lot of research about a cluster launch, hoping to do the build this winter. Also thanks for mentioning venting, I have not looked into that yet. I assume that is to keep the motor from blowing out of the rocket.
 
In my opinion, the Q2G2 are the best igniters to use for cluster ignition. Unfortunately they are out of stock, almost everywhere.

The solution I use is to buy a bulk pack of Quest rocket motors and use the Q2G2 igniters that come with the bulk pack for clustering and use Estes on the same engines for none clustering flights. The Q2G2 igniters light off with very little current. They most often light off just from the low current of the continuity check of an Estes launch controller.

Just my two cents,
David
 
Wooow thank you all verry much for your answers.
I have been looking on the internet now and unfortunately my local hobby store only has the estes and klima igniters.
But they also have bug ignitors.
Perhaps anyone knows if I can use these to ignite my C6-5 engines, and if I can cluster them.

Welcome to the forum. Your controller with fresh batteries should light two motors. Probably not instantaneously so hold the launch button down until ignition. Battery life will be short with this kind of use. Not sure what a bug igniter is; pictures ? May I ask where you are posting from ?
 
I always order from https://www.modelrocket-shop.com, and I am talking about the Electr. bridge igniter 20cm (Yellow/Standard).
Schermafbeelding 2014-11-21 om 16.25.23.png
It doesn't say it can't be used to ignite rocket engines but it also doesn't say it can.
The only thing they say is that it can be used series.
 
Aha! Nederlander, welcome again. The modelrocket-shop has a very nice web site, I must say. Based on the description of the 20cm bridge igniters I'd say they would be good cluster motor igniters:

This bridge igniter is the ideal solution for who doesn't want to cary a heavy battery. A 1,5Volt penlite battery can be enough as a powersource to safely ignite yout modelrocket at a distance.
Perfectly suited to eject your parachute via electronic means. For example, for the igniting a piece of Flashcotton.
!Please ensure that the testing of your launcher equipment and a closed circuit (lights / beeps at your equipment), does not lead to premature ignition of the bridge igniter!


This warning means that because of the lower resistance of these igniters, they could light with just the continuity check of the Estes controller. The other issue is: Can the tip of the igniter fit into the motor nozzle. Interesting item, thanks for posting.
 
I have been doing a lot of research about a cluster launch, hoping to do the build this winter. Also thanks for mentioning venting, I have not looked into that yet. I assume that is to keep the motor from blowing out of the rocket.

The legal way to do it is to use C6-0s in the pods and vent the staging flame. You could also pop the nosecones off or do more exotic venting to the body tube, it is up to you. Either way a bit of reinforcement is needed. If you cluster 3 C6-5's you should have a 12V system, You do not want a late starter on a modified SR 71.:y:
 
The legal way to do it is to use C6-0s in the pods and vent the staging flame. You could also pop the nosecones off or do more exotic venting to the body tube, it is up to you. Either way a bit of reinforcement is needed. If you cluster 3 C6-5's you should have a 12V system, You do not want a late starter on a modified SR 71.:y:

Thank you very much, really gives me some direction.
 
Any thoughts on lighting 8 C motors and a composite (H) reasonably simultaneously?

for 3 to 12 BP motors the only truely reliable way to get Near simultaneous ignition (No system can ignite everything at exactly the same instant). is with a RELAY ignition system which moves the power supply from the controller side to the Launcher making the connecting cables as short as possible.
Since switching to this type DPDT 40amp/contact Relay system in the 70's I've had near 100% ignition of all motors in 3-to 12 BP Motor clusters. Mainly with my own Igniters but also with Q2g2's which are GREAT.

Combining BP and APCP is not something I suggest as the APCP can take are very long time to reach igntion temperature..LONG after the BP motors have lit and have started the model on its' way, jurking the clips from the APCP motors.



As for flying the Estes SR-71 as a 3motor cluster. As daddyisabar mentioned the easiest way to set the model up is with a core C6-5 and two C6-0's in the outboards but and I say BUT this leaves NO margin for error or a bad ignitor in the core motor.
I destoryed my first Clustered SR-71 on it's 10th flight then a bad igniter let the model have a Beautiful UP flight on the two outboard C6-0's but a very bad landing.
Since that flight I've worn out 2 other SR-71's with more the 40 flights each, by ducting the outboards into the main body through soldered up rectangluar thinwall brass tubes embedded in the pod stand-offs. These models fly on 3 C6 motors Core is a C6-5 with two C6-7's in the outboards. the longer delay in the out-boards allow for the core motor to function properly with the 2 second delay should the core motor fail to deploy the chute. In all 80some flights of the 2 SR-71's I haven't needed that extra two seconds but it's always nice to have a back-Up.

SR-71-e2_Ducting parts FS 300dpi_04-02-96.jpg

013Lp06a_3-C6 SR-71 Blackbird Liftoff(Manassas Va)_07-1990.jpg

013Lp06d_3pic 3-C6 SR-71 Blackbird Flt(Manassas VA)_07-90.jpg

SR-71-e1-sm_FS 3-32 x 3-16th ducts 160dpi_01-07.jpg
 

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