full scale Hellfire at 5 pounds?

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

burkefj

Well-Known Member
TRF Supporter
Joined
Jan 27, 2009
Messages
4,489
Reaction score
2,962
That's my goal, I'm going to try another large diameter rocket, using a 29mm central tube, 4" parachute compartment, and using sheet foam stringers, centering rings, fins and skin.....
The hellfire is good because the fin span is short and they don't stick beyond the end of the tube, hellfires typically need lots of nose weight.
We'll see how it goes...Using a rocksim CP of 31 from the front on a 64" by 7" diameter, I'd like my CG to be at 24"....
I don't know if anyone cares or why I care, but I'm finding this interesting, it's sort of fun to build a structure instead of just buy a tube.....feels like I'm doing something other than mixing epoxy and using my belt sander:)

Openrocket shows a much further forward CG requirement, but flight tests will prove that rocksim was correct with a 24" CG from the nose and CP of 31" from the nose being stable with a 50 fps velocity off the rail and a 6-7mph wind.
 
Last edited:
For those who may not be aware - I direct your attention to the NAR's Sport Rocketry magazine, Nov/Dec 2012 issue...

One day I'm gonna' try my hand at some of Frank's awesome RC stuff...

Till then, I'm just a fan.

Subscribed :)
 
Very cool... Always been a fan of the Hellfire design. Definitely a different shape than the standard 3FNC rocket. Stubby, round nose, small fin diameter... Very cool.
I'm curious, Do you really need all those centering rings? Also, you mention the probable need for nose weight, have you thought about adding some weight in between some of those bulkheads?
Finally... If you're willing to share, I'd love to get a copy of the file so I could do maybe a 1/2" scale! Been looking for a scratch project!
 
Hi, and thanks for the nice words all, this won't be a sodmeister build, he sort of put the bar out of reach on his very nice hellfire, this is just an attempt to make a very light one:)

Answers:

Can I have a copy of the ork file, yes in the first post it is attached. I've removed the boat tail for now.

Do I need all those centering rings: They weigh approx 0.1 oz each and are foam, just to support the stringers and skin....the reason there are so many is that I'm using a 2mm skin, the skin tends to flatten out between stringers and I'm hoping that this will give them enough support to stay round...the only wood is the bottom 1/8" thrust plate and the top centering rings and nose plate just because I need to attach the recovery to them.

Nose weight: The plan is to have the weight all the way at the end of the plate that is attached to the coupler in the parachute cup; the coupler will act as the shoulder of the cone, and the weight on top of that, as far forward as I can go.

Progress: I found a great deal on bt-55 tubes and couplers for $6 total, two leftover pml 6" long 3.9" coupler sections for the parachute section for $3 each, and a 29mm motor mount for 4" for $6...that got me all the tubing I needed and three centering rings I could trim down to fit into the couplers to center the tubing and make the nose cone shoulder. I had a spare piece of 38mm tube that I glued to the side of the parachute compartment which will hold the altimeter, there will be a door on the side of the rocket I can open, insert the altimeter from the bottom of the bay, and route the ejection charge through a tube up into the chute compartment. All up weight for all the tubing, coupler and altimeter compartment and altimeter is right at 12.7 oz which is just what I estimated, so far so good. Most expensive piece was the aeropack retainer....Foam cost was $55.The center tube will act as backup motor ejection and give extra support to the structure, and tie the whole thing together under recover and flight load. BT-55's were dirt cheap. You'll see a ring around the parachute compartment. I was only able to find the pml couplers. So I cut 1" off of one of them, and then cut the rest in two 3” long pieces. I spliced one of the 3" pieces to the parachute compartment, and then split the 1" ring and glued it on the outside to support it, so I would up with a 10" chute compartment. I then split the other 3" piece and trimmed a section out and re-glued it back together with the cut out piece on the inside to make the perfect fitting shoulder to go inside.....It also turned out the bt-55 coupler fit exactly around the 29mm motor tube to center it in the rear. I used the rest of the 29mm motor tube in the forward end of the bt-55 tube because it already fit the ply centering rings that came with the motor mount from sunward.

parts used:

3 18" lengths of bt-55
5 bt55 couplers
one 29mm motor mount for 3.9" tubing
two 7" long pml 3,9" couplers
one piece of 38mm motor tube.
small aluminum tube to route the ejection charge from the bottom into the parachute well.

Frank

Very cool... Always been a fan of the Hellfire design. Definitely a different shape than the standard 3FNC rocket. Stubby, round nose, small fin diameter... Very cool.
I'm curious, Do you really need all those centering rings? Also, you mention the probable need for nose weight, have you thought about adding some weight in between some of those bulkheads?
Finally... If you're willing to share, I'd love to get a copy of the file so I could do maybe a 1/2" scale! Been looking for a scratch project!

WP_20141119_001.jpg

WP_20141119_002.jpg

WP_20141119_003.jpg

WP_20141119_004.jpg
 
Last edited:
Cut the rear ply 1/8" thrust ring and then used that as a pattern to cut all of the centering rings, was able to cut them all out of spare pieces I had laying around, took about 20 minutes.
Weighing so far with structure, altimeter and remaining foam needed is 39 oz.

Frank

WP_20141120_001.jpg
 
Last edited:
Frank will you build one for me?
We can barter for electronics and a special RRC2+ firmware build...:)
 
Made a pattern, then cut a template for the notches in the centering rings that will align with tabs in the stringers to keep it all locked together and straight. Used a tube to hold the centering rings aligned and cut the notches out, then made the templates for the two stringer pieces, one 35" long and the other 22" long. Temporarily put things together. 18 ounces so far in the picture with altimeter, etc. I think I was a bit heavy on the foam estimate, I'm now guessing 35 ounces or so, maybe 37 with glue weight. Nose weight will make or break it. right now it is showing 16 oz needed, some of that will be eye bolt.

Trying to decide if I do a center core of styrene sheet and foam over the top, or do a foam core with thin styrene sheet on each side...they aren't very wide so don't need to be super robust.

Frank

WP_20141120_003.jpg

WP_20141120_004.jpg

WP_20141120_005.jpg
 
Last edited:
Sort of puzzled over what to do with the fins, strength versus weight, versus robustness of landing damage....

I decided on a carbon strip reinforce on the front fin to stiffen them, and then sheet the external part with .015 styrene. Worked well, 1/4 ounce each.
For the rear, the same method was way too heavy, 2.5 ounces per fin, so i went with two carbon stiffenters all the way through the fin tab, then added a piece of .04 styrene on the leading edge, to give it some impact resistance, and then sheeted over with a 3mm depron piece. 1 1/4 ounce each fin. The fin tab is slotted and will slide over three centering rings, the root is located between two of the stringers so no need for a fin box....

Frank

WP_20141120_006.jpg

WP_20141120_007.jpg

WP_20141120_008.jpg

WP_20141120_009.jpg

WP_20141120_010.jpg
 
Finished the longerons/stringers...Had to figure out a way to put a hatch for the altimeter and leave room for the forward fins...figured that out.

It's pretty stiff right now even without sheeting. Weight is 27 ounces...fins will add 4.5 more and sheeting 5-6. Unfortunately it's balancing currently about 6-7" behind where I wanted with the fins on, and the moment to the nose is pretty short....Right now it weights what an empty piece of loc 5.5" 57" long tubing would weigh....

Frank

WP_20141120_012.jpg
 
that if you want to try to make a "realistic" nose cone for this rocket, it is the right time of year to go to craft stores (like HobLob) and grab a 4-inch or 5-inch clear spherical Christmas tree decoration. Some are glass, some are plastic and would probably be more useful. Cut out a portion of the sphere and work it into your NC design, then maybe put some dummy hardware in the front to look like a seeker head.
 
Thanks for the suggestion of craft stores, I did some online looking and a few places list 7" balls....I'm not sure about being able to put in details into a clear nose, it will be mostly filled with lead:)
I glued in the upper centering rings with eye bolt into the parachute cup, and glued in some hardwood hard-points to mount the rail buttons to, and cut the altimeter bay ports...ready to skin....

Frank
 
Last edited:
I got 2 sheets of 2mm @ $5 each and used those. They worked great and the rocket is now skinned. I added rail buttons, and then added a forward centering ring and some angle gussets to transition from the 7" tube to about 5.5" for the nose. I went to Jo-Ann fabrics and found a nice hard styrofoam 6" ball for $5 and cut that to make the rounded front. Now I need to skin the transition, build the top of the bulkhead, install the eye bolt and start adding some weight.

Weight empty so far now is 37.5oz with fins.

Frank
 
Last edited:
Finished the top of the nose cone, have an eye bolt with the shaft going all the way to the tip of the cone to take the landing impact. The weight will be glued around the top of the parachute bay before I skin it over, that way the nose won't be a heavy pendulum trying to smash into the rocket. Cut the altimiter access and made a door for it. It's a friction fit with a tape hinge, the door keeps the floorplate of the altimeter in place.

Only the very tip of the cone ejects. I decided to do a tapered section with sheeting to transition into the cone end...hopefully it won't look too stupid.

44 oz now with all fins and , with chute/kevlar around 48-49. I can tell it's getting close to thanksgiving, it's getting fat.......But I just watched a video of another full scale hellfire flying on an L motor that weighed 60 pounds with a 23 pound nose...

WP_20141122_001.jpg

WP_20141122_004.jpg

WP_20141122_005.jpg
 
Last edited:
Here she is, tube slotted, all fins installed, 52 oz with everything but motor and nose weight.

Motor will weight 7.5 oz(H-128 and nose weight will be approx 80% of that due to the nose moment, so it's under 3.3 pounds dry and unpainted....ready to fly looks like it will be around 72-75 oz depending on paint etc.

I haven't glued/sanded the transition yet, I'm waiting to permanently attach the fins, then do the final balance, and weight adding, then finish skinning the transition etc...I'll work on that next weak, I'm beat, this thing has been bugging me, not getting any sleep:)

Frank

WP_20141122_006.jpg

WP_20141122_007.jpg
 
Last edited:
Frank -

I want this bird... you need to build me one or kit me one.
Beyond cool.
 
Attached the fins, and added the weight around the upper centering ring/parachute tube, and skinned the transition, added the yellow stripes now as they stick to the foam better before painting, I'll mask those off and paint the rest dark green and the nose upper silver...4 pounds 2 oz without motor.....I did a quick ork file using loc 7.5" tubing, 1/4" ply fins, 38mm mount and fiberglass cone, needing about 120 oz of nose weight, was right at 20 pounds weighted for a J-570. Based on the CG position, it takes about 1.8 oz more per ounce of tail weight for bigger motors, so if the motor added 4 oz you needed to add 7.2 oz in the nose...

Frank

WP_20141123_001.jpg

WP_20141123_002.jpg

WP_20141123_003.jpg

WP_20141123_004.jpg

WP_20141123_005.jpg

View attachment hellfire_fullscale.ork

final_hellfire_ork.jpg
 
Last edited:
Time to go tank hunting. Any rouge T-72s roaming around your neighborhood?:)
 
Finished the painting tonight, dark green on the body and titanium on the nose....added some silver sharpie lines/rivet details to make it look less plain, didn't turn out too terrible.
It was a fun exercise, hopefully it will fly and recover ok.

Frank

WP_20141125_001.jpg

WP_20141125_002.jpg

WP_20141125_003.jpg

WP_20141125_004.jpg

WP_20141125_005.jpg

WP_20141125_006.jpg

WP_20141125_007.jpg
 
huge-thumbs-up-smiley-emoticon.gif
Nice Job!
 
Last edited:
Back
Top