Filament wound CF airframe temp

junkyard · Nov 2, 2014

Hey everyone,

I was wondering if anyone knows what the temperature limits are for the filament wound CF from either proline, rocketry warehouse or wildman. I have sent each of them a few messages but I haven't gotten any replies. Also if you know any other places to get airframe with a high temperature rating. I am hoping for around 400F since the rocket I am planing will see upwards of mach 4

Thanks for your guys help

flynfrog · Nov 2, 2014

you will not find anything off the shelf wound CF that is good to 400F. You probably don't need it either.

Aksrockets · Nov 2, 2014

I've heard it was in the 250-350 range, but that was based on post cure observations, not epoxy data. Proline/RW/Wildman don't like to give too many specs on their stuff for some reason or another, which is stupid.
What are you flying that's hitting M4?

Alex

A5tr0 An0n · Nov 2, 2014

Performance Rocketry makes all the FW tubes for the vendors (except recently Wildman switched manufactures), so all of those tubes have the same service temp unless otherwise requested by the vendor (some do that). I have asked and received an actual answer but I cannot remember off the top of my head the exact number, I do believe it was in the 250F to 300F range. You can request a different resin to be used that is good for 500F+ from Proline Rocketry. I would imagine that others have the same ability but do not know. I am not sure on much of the details of Wildmans new supplier.

junkyard · Nov 2, 2014

I tried checking performance rocketry, but I can't find their site. Do they have another name?

tuxxi · Nov 2, 2014

junkyard said:
I tried checking performance rocketry, but I can't find their site. Do they have another name?

I contacted Curtis (the man who owns PR) a few weeks ago via phone. We spoke once, but he has since dropped off the face of the earth, i've called him about 8 times and he never picks up. Supposedly he is known for doing this for up to years at a time. You can try emailing [email protected] or calling, but don't expect to get anywhere.

markkoelsch · Nov 2, 2014

From what I have seen I would not order direct from Curtis- can be messy.

I really am wondering what you are flying that needs a tube that can take 400+ F?

Mark Koelsch
Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum

CarVac · Nov 2, 2014

markkoelsch said:
From what I have seen I would not order direct from Curtis- can be messy.

I really am wondering what you are flying that needs a tube that can take 400+ F?

Mark Koelsch
Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum

I remember someone (Curtis?) saying that they could make filament wound fiberglass or CF with phenolic resin instead of epoxy. That's not very helpful, I know. The other thing I know of is Tom Rouse bought a 50-foot tube of decorative ribbon wound CF that's used for covering motorcycle mufflers; I saw a minimum-diameter 4" made from it at LDRS 32. It was absolutely gorgeous, and presumably had some degree of heat resistance.

Anyway, why does the tube need to be so incredibly heat resistant? Usually it's primarily fins and nosecone that's the issue, and material strength (FWCF has issues with peel strength limiting fin attachment, excepting possibly ribbon-wound; I don't know).

junkyard · Nov 2, 2014

markkoelsch said:
From what I have seen I would not order direct from Curtis- can be messy.

I really am wondering what you are flying that needs a tube that can take 400+ F?

Mark Koelsch
Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum

Don't worry, I will reveal my build in due time

performancerocketry · Nov 3, 2014

Ok, here is the info..
Our standard tubing Fiberglass G12 and Filament wound Carbon Fiber are both 375 F TG.
As stated we offer an additional resin system that offers a 500 F TG.

As far as getting in touch with me.
I am always an email away, I am the manufacturer not the sales rep. If you want to call someone it is best to call Gary at ProLine Rocketry or any of the other dealers that sell my products.
We run a loud manufacturing business so answering the phone is not always possible.

The dropping off the face of the earth comment, I am not sure how to respond to that.
I am in the shop 6-7 days a week manufacturing the thousands of rocket parts we produce every year. (I live, eat, breath rocketry, this is no part time thing for me)

The "I would not order direct from Curtis- can be messy. " Comment !!
Well first off I do not sell direct, and have not for many years, so I will assume that this is another bad propaganda story from the old rumor mill.

For the record, please send inquiries to [email protected] or [email protected] (if you are not sure about something ask, do not assume)(( you know what happens))

Current Dealers

ProLine Rocketry
Mad Cow Rocketry
Rocketry Warehouse
Apogee Components
Performance Hobbies

Thank You
Curtis Turner
[email protected]
[email protected]

AlnessW · Nov 3, 2014

Correct - Curtis is a manufacturer and doesn't sell anything directly. Hence the "no website for Performance Rocketry."
Lots of dealers sell his products, as outlined in the post above.

As for Wildman - everything he sells is in black fiberglass...which attracts heat...

junkyard · Nov 3, 2014

performancerocketry said:
Ok, here is the info..
Our standard tubing Fiberglass G12 and Filament wound Carbon Fiber are both 375 F TG.
As stated we offer an additional resin system that offers a 500 F TG.

As far as getting in touch with me.
I am always an email away, I am the manufacturer not the sales rep. If you want to call someone it is best to call Gary at ProLine Rocketry or any of the other dealers that sell my products.
We run a loud manufacturing business so answering the phone is not always possible.

The dropping off the face of the earth comment, I am not sure how to respond to that.
I am in the shop 6-7 days a week manufacturing the thousands of rocket parts we produce every year. (I live, eat, breath rocketry, this is no part time thing for me)

The "I would not order direct from Curtis- can be messy. " Comment !!
Well first off I do not sell direct, and have not for many years, so I will assume that this is another bad propaganda story from the old rumor mill.

For the record, please send inquiries to [email protected] or [email protected] (if you are not sure about something ask, do not assume)(( you know what happens))

Current Dealers

ProLine Rocketry
Mad Cow Rocketry
Rocketry Warehouse
Apogee Components
Performance Hobbies

Thank You
Curtis Turner
[email protected]
[email protected]

Email sent

G_T · Nov 3, 2014

AlnessW said:
... As for Wildman - everything he sells is in black fiberglass...which attracts heat...

If it gets hot enough, it should radiate heat better through black body radiation. However, it most likely failed before that becomes important...

Gerald

edwinshap1 · Nov 3, 2014

I ordered a custom 6" OD nosecone from PR. 2 week lead time but I expect it'll be quite high quality.

Gary is very quick and helpful with all the questions/requests I had.

markkoelsch · Nov 3, 2014

Gents, I really feel kind of bad about my comments, and would like to do two things here- apologize to Curtis, and secondly provide some context for said comments.

First, I do not think Curtis deserved the shot I took and I apologize for it. It was based on information posted on Rocketry Planet back when I was a moderator there. It essentially had to do with orders taking a long time to get. I do not claim to know more than what was posted then, and was by the very nature of the posts one sided. It was a long time ago, and I essentially should not have mentioned it.

So, I know Curtis makes good stuff, as I have quite bit of it in the form of kits from several manufacturers as do many of you.

I hope Curtis accepts my apology, as I hope the rest of you forgive my poor form.

Mark Koelsch
Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum

performancerocketry · Nov 3, 2014

apology accepted ..

Thank you
Curtis Turner

Viperfixr · Nov 3, 2014

AlnessW said:
As for Wildman - everything he sells is in black fiberglass...which attracts heat...

How, exactly, does black FG *attract* heat?

markkoelsch · Nov 3, 2014

It certainly does not attract heat. Will it warm faster in the sun- yes, I think that likely.

Mark Koelsch
Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum

A5tr0 An0n · Nov 3, 2014

markkoelsch said:
Gents, I really feel kind of bad about my comments, and would like to do two things here- apologize to Curtis, and secondly provide some context for said comments.

First, I do not think Curtis deserved the shot I took and I apologize for it. It was based on information posted on Rocketry Planet back when I was a moderator there. It essentially had to do with orders taking a long time to get. I do not claim to know more than what was posted then, and was by the very nature of the posts one sided. It was a long time ago, and I essentially should not have mentioned it.

So, I know Curtis makes good stuff, as I have quite bit of it in the form of kits from several manufacturers as do many of you.

I hope Curtis accepts my apology, as I hope the rest of you forgive my poor form.

Mark Koelsch
Sent from my iPhone using Rocketry Forum

Well done Mark.

CarVac · Nov 4, 2014

Viperfixr said:
How, exactly, does black FG *attract* heat?

In Black Rock weather, it can make the difference between 120 F starting temperatures and 150F.

That said, the OP's inquiry is for carbon fiber which is black regardless of what resin you use.

REK · Nov 4, 2014

Lets not forget carbon has good thermal conductivity. Meaning it will heat up quickly. I noticed that when I put a carbon tube in sunlight it got hot really quick.

Alexander Solis

TRA - Level 1
Mariah 54 - CTI RedLightning- I-100 - 6,345 Feet

AlnessW · Nov 4, 2014

CarVac said:
In Black Rock weather, it can make the difference between 120 F starting temperatures and 150F.

Of course! Black always absorbs heat when left in the sun.

A5tr0 An0n · Nov 4, 2014

AlnessW said:
Of course! Black always absorbs heat when left in the sun.

I believe the previous posts were geared towards the fact that black does not attract heat but rather absorbs all wavelengths of light resulting in energy conversion (a hotter part).

You can always paint the part white (reflects wavelengths) if you are concerned with the color/heat.

AlnessW · Nov 4, 2014

A5tr0 An0n said:
I believe the previous posts were geared towards the fact that black does not attract heat but rather absorbs all wavelengths of light resulting in energy conversion (a hotter part).

You can always paint the part white (reflects wavelengths) if you are concerned with the color/heat.

Or however else you want to say it.

My point is that I have seen black rockets get very hot sitting in the sun - and yes, painting will help that a lot.

Filament wound CF airframe temp

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Now with 8% more aluminum

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Born Again Rocketeer

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads

Join the conversation!

Join today and get all the highlights of this community direct to your inbox. It's FREE!