Sirius - Refit Atlantis

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JAL3

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According to my records, my Refit USS Atlantis has been sitting in my build pile for about a year. That jives with my memory. It was one of the first kits I ordered and it has been intimidating me ever since. I really wanted to build it but I wanted it to look good too. Finally, I decided to give it a try, not because I think I can do it justice but because I want it so bad. Besides, I'll never develop the skills if I don't actually try.

refit%20uss%20atlantis.jpg
 
Construction on this one started out as all such projects should but too many do not. I gave the instructions a thorough reading. That certainly racheted up the intimidation factor. Don't get me wrong, the instructions are well written, very thorough and chock full of helpful hints and tips; but they did confirm that this was going to be an intensive build.

The first actual build step is the building of the motor mount. I maked the motor tube as directed, located the centering rings and engine hook and came to a screaching halt. I searched through the bag and the instructions and found no mention of a thrust ring. Neither did I find the actual ring. It may not be needed but, I like them. I have a few rockets that have omited them and always notice wear where the engine hook is used as the sole means of blocking the motor. Accordingly, I cut a ring off of a spent Estes E motor and used that as a thrust ring, mounting it with yellow glue and spacing it with a spent D casing.

With the thrust ring in place, I cut the slit for the engine hook and then glued on the three centering rings. The forward and aft rings each have a notch. The forward one allows passing of a Kevlar thread and the aft one accomodates the engine hook. The middle ring has no notch and is locted at the midpoint. The end rings were mounted flush with the ends of the motor tube and all were secured and filleted with yellow glue.

atlantis-wood.jpg

atlantis-motor-mount-1.jpg

atlantis-motor-mount-2.jpg
 
The recover system in this kit involves a Kevlar harness yoked around the motor mount. I normally like this system but am thinking about putting in a baffle with the Kevlar attached to that. Are there any opinions out there about the advisability of doing this?
 
If using a baffle, that is where I would attach the kevlar lead...

That's the way I'd do it if I use a baffle. I'm trying to pick people's brains to see if there is a reason I shouldn't do it that way. Maybe there's something I'm not thinking of that somebody with more experience might point out.

This is a nice looking kit and I don't want to botch it up.
 
I can't think of a better place to attach the shock cord than at the baffle. It's where you need it to be, it won't restrict the BT for deployment and it won't be hot so the shock cord won't scorch over time. Best of all worlds.
 
I can't think of a better place to attach the shock cord than at the baffle. It's where you need it to be, it won't restrict the BT for deployment and it won't be hot so the shock cord won't scorch over time. Best of all worlds.

That's more or less what I figured after all my vast (3 times) experience with the things.

I think I'll give it a try. I think I have one that will fit.
 
The recover system in this kit involves a Kevlar harness yoked around the motor mount. I normally like this system but am thinking about putting in a baffle with the Kevlar attached to that. Are there any opinions out there about the advisability of doing this?

Should be fine with doing this. Attaching the Kevlar to the baffle would work fine. Shorten the Kevlar cord accordingly so that the top loop in your Kevlar cord is no longer than the front of the main body tube as mentioned in the instructions to prevent zippering.

The baffle should help to bring the center of gravity forward as well, which can never hurt. Just make sure that the finished CG with an installed flight motor is anywhere forward of the point shown in the attached illustration.

I hope you enjoy the build!

Dave
 
More pictures!!

Wouldn't you prefer that I wait to post pictures that are actually relevant? I suppose I could grace you with my vacation photos from 2007 but there are no rockets in them.:p

I'll post them as the build proceeds.

BTW, I think that either a King Kraken or 3FNC might be the next project...
 
Should be fine with doing this. Attaching the Kevlar to the baffle would work fine. Shorten the Kevlar cord accordingly so that the top loop in your Kevlar cord is no longer than the front of the main body tube as mentioned in the instructions to prevent zippering.

The baffle should help to bring the center of gravity forward as well, which can never hurt. Just make sure that the finished CG with an installed flight motor is anywhere forward of the point shown in the attached illustration.

I hope you enjoy the build!

Dave

Thanks for the input. I think I am going to use a baffle. I just need to see if I have one of the right size when I go back over to the shop. Unfortunately, that will probably not be today.

I considered cracking open one of the Interrogators or the Cestris, they looked easier, but this is the one that has been taunting me the mostest and the longest.

I'm looking forward to the rest.
 
Wouldn't you prefer that I wait to post pictures that are actually relevant? I suppose I could grace you with my vacation photos from 2007 but there are no rockets in them.:p

I'll post them as the build proceeds.

BTW, I think that either a King Kraken or 3FNC might be the next project...

If you want simple construction go with the KK, the 3FNC requires TTW fin slot cutting and all manner of baffles, rings, upholstery tacks and so forth.
 
If you want simple construction go with the KK, the 3FNC requires TTW fin slot cutting and all manner of baffles, rings, upholstery tacks and so forth.

Simple is not so much the watchword, although that might change after I get done with the Atlantis. I like both of these but probably the 3FNC more. What is really going through my mind is launch opportunities. The King Kraken would probably not get an outing until some time in Feb.

I could always go with one of the others but the more I look at the 3FNC, the more it appeals to the ovegrowngrown kid who watched all those old movies. That being said, it is another one I don't want to mess up. If it is rally a difficult one, perhaps I should go look for Bucky or one of the Arks.

Shouldn't you really be getting back to releasing more kits now? I wouldn't want SHE WHO MUST BE OBEYED to get complacent...
 
In reference to the baffle, I think you'll be hard pressed to build one light and still anchor it firmly unless you attached the kevlar between the coupler (baffle) and the body tube. Simply snake the kevlar "through" the baffle and tie a knot in it and then glue the baffle into the tube. That way, the stress will be on the coupler and not the individual baffle plates inside the coupler.
Just a thought. That's what I did on my clown....err...clone.

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=46116

v/r
Jerry
 
In my Semroc Arcas, the shock cord passes through a (tiny) hole in the upper baffle plate and is looped and tied around a tube below it. I suppose it depends on how your baffle is designed.
 
Assuming I have a baffle "in stock" it would be a Fliskits BAF-55, or whatever number they use for a BT55 tube. Flis seems to have 2 different style baffles but I would guess that this one would be in the style of their larger diamter ones. That involve 2 perforated plates, on with the hole clustered around the center and the other with the holes in a ring around the outside edge. I forget which way is up or down.

The shock cord is a piece of Kevlar. It is knotted and fed through a hole in the bottom plate. It is then fed through a notch in the out edge of both the bottom and top plates and, from there, goes on to connect to the elastic.

All of this is based on my memory of the way the BT 70 baffle was put together. I know their BT20 and BT50 baffles use a different system.

I would probably build the baffle "stock" but add several layers of glue or epoxy to serve as an ablative surface and better control the Kevlar.

Its 2324 and I just got home from work. I may wake up tomorrow and realize I have been hallucinating tonight.
 
After the glue on the motor mount is dry, the instructions call for the fitting of a Kevlar harness around the motor tube. The end of the Kevlar is then fed through a notch in the centering ring. Instead of doing this, I decided to add a baffle system and anchor the recovery system to that. I chose a Fliskits BAF-55.

(The baffle went together pretty much like I remembered last night)

BAF55.jpg
 
Since there was no recovery system associated with the motor mount to worry about, the next step was to actually install the motor mount into the main body tube. It was secured in place with yellow glue and with the aft ring flush with the aft end of the tube.

atlantis-motor-mount-3.jpg

atlantis-motor-mount-4.jpg
 
I think the hardest part for me on my Atlantis Refit was the vacuform nacelles.

I got up to that point and procrastinated so it was months before I got back and tackled them.

It took longer to trim and sand them than I thought it would, but they came out pretty good after all.

So, once you get to that point, just go forward. It wasn't as bad as I expected although it's not something that you can just "slap together".

View attachment Atlantis_nacelles.JPG
 
I think the hardest part for me on my Atlantis Refit was the vacuform nacelles.

I got up to that point and procrastinated so it was months before I got back and tackled them.

It took longer to trim and sand them than I thought it would, but they came out pretty good after all.

So, once you get to that point, just go forward. It wasn't as bad as I expected although it's not something that you can just "slap together".


That is indeed the part I am dreading but I'll keep plugging away until I get through it. I plan on taking it nice and slow.

Yours looks good. What did you use to get the sparkly finish?
 
Folks,

At the beginning of this year, the last rocket I built and flew was the Estes ODYSSEY back in the early ninties. Since then, I sort of left rockets behind.

Then, one day at the beginning of this year, I started thinking about rockets again. Approaching middle age will do that I suppose. And during one of my daily visits to the Hobby Talk website, I asked if anyone knew where I could get an Estes ATLANTIS and someone sent me the link to the Sirius website and their Refit Atlantis.

It totally freaked me out and delighted me to no end that there was an entire cottage industry of individuals making upscale kits of my favorite rockets from back when I was president of my sixth grade rocketry club. I was always partial to what I considered science fiction subjects, because I could always display them right next to my action figures and other model kits.

Needless to say, since then I've managed to buy some terrific kits. I picked up the Sirius Atlantis and most of their other rockets (I stare at their Saturn V box every day and wonder if I'll ever have the courage). I bought the Q Modeling Mars Snooper, Starship Andromeda and Starship Vega, which are all of the very hightest quality. Got an Estes Interceptor E and what I think is the coolest rocket kit ever made, Pem Tec's Space Ark from WHEN WORLDS COLLIDE (although the Bucky Jones kit is pretty astonishing, too). Just the fact that Mr. Pemberton is out there making flying model rockets of 50's sci fi subjects makes me think all is right with the world.

So, all of you, my profound thanks.

Anyway, I finally got around to actually start BUILDING them. My just finished Snooper came out great. And while my glue fillets were a little chunky and required a week's worth of sanding and priming, the two tone Tamiya Metallic Red and Metallic Black paint scheme I came up with, covered with their clear coat, made for one smashing-looking rocket. My buddies have all commented on how beautiful it is. I'm amazed at how many people remember the rocket. I'm gonna' fly it next month.

Since then, I've built the Interceptor, the Sirius Cestris and just cracked the bag on the Atlantis, the first kit I actually purchased.

Please keep posting pictures of your build progress, because I, too am a little scared of the Atlantis. I'm a perfectionist and I really want my own Atlantis to come out great. You've got some terrific ideas and I can't wait to see how it all turns out.

And between Pem Tech's, Sirius' and Q Modeling's upcoming releases I know I'll have things to build for quite some time to come...

Uh...LPR HMAS Bonestell?!?!?!? Color me stoked.

I have no real reason for posting, other than to share my excitement about all of this...
 
Folks,

At the beginning of this year, the last rocket I built and flew was the Estes ODYSSEY back in the early ninties. Since then, I sort of left rockets behind.

Then, one day at the beginning of this year, I started thinking about rockets again. Approaching middle age will do that I suppose. And during one of my daily visits to the Hobby Talk website, I asked if anyone knew where I could get an Estes ATLANTIS and someone sent me the link to the Sirius website and their Refit Atlantis.

It totally freaked me out and delighted me to no end that there was an entire cottage industry of individuals making upscale kits of my favorite rockets from back when I was president of my sixth grade rocketry club. I was always partial to what I considered science fiction subjects, because I could always display them right next to my action figures and other model kits.

Needless to say, since then I've managed to buy some terrific kits. I picked up the Sirius Atlantis and most of their other rockets (I stare at their Saturn V box every day and wonder if I'll ever have the courage). I bought the Q Modeling Mars Snooper, Starship Andromeda and Starship Vega, which are all of the very hightest quality. Got an Estes Interceptor E and what I think is the coolest rocket kit ever made, Pem Tec's Space Ark from WHEN WORLDS COLLIDE (although the Bucky Jones kit is pretty astonishing, too). Just the fact that Mr. Pemberton is out there making flying model rockets of 50's sci fi subjects makes me think all is right with the world.

So, all of you, my profound thanks.

Anyway, I finally got around to actually start BUILDING them. My just finished Snooper came out great. And while my glue fillets were a little chunky and required a week's worth of sanding and priming, the two tone Tamiya Metallic Red and Metallic Black paint scheme I came up with, covered with their clear coat, made for one smashing-looking rocket. My buddies have all commented on how beautiful it is. I'm amazed at how many people remember the rocket. I'm gonna' fly it next month.

Since then, I've buit the Interceptor, the Sirius Cestris and just cracked the bag on the Atlantis, the first kit I actually purchased.

Please keep posting pictures of your build progress, because I, too am a little scared of the Atlantis. I'm a perfectionist and I really want my own Atlantis to come out great. You've got some terrific ideas and I can't wait to see how it all turns out.

And between Pem Tech's, Sirius' and Q Modeling's upcoming releases I know I'll have things to build for quite some time to come...

Uh...LPR HMAS Bonestell?!?!?!? Color me stoked.

I have no real reason for posting, other than to share my excitement about all of this...

Excitement's good. I stay excited about what's going to be build next, even when I want to take a "break" and slap together an EX2 or level 1 kit. The excitement really becomes palpable when somebody comes out with something new and I start trying to figure out how many calories I'm going to burn running away from my wife when she finds out I've ordered another one.:rolleyes:
 
The kit came with a wrap-around fin marking guide. I generally prefer these to the end alignment guides that some favor. Sirius has gone a step further than most of the competition, though. Theirs is printed on its own sheet. You do not have to butcher the instructions to use the guide.
I cut the guide out (you still have to do a little trimming) and wrapped it around the BT. I aligned the belly centerline with the engine hook and taped the guide an 1/8" forward of the end. I then transferred the lines to the BT and labeled them. The guide was slid off, it would be needed again in a later step, and all of the lines were extended the length of the BT using a doorframe for alignment.

With the lines extended, I again slipped the wrap around guide onto the BT and ensured that its marks lined up with those on the tube. This time the guide was taped in place flush with the end of the tube. The purpose for putting it back on was to use it to cut the slots for the warp engine pylons.

To ensure the cuts would be straight, I taped a steel ruler along one of the lines for the cutout. Then using multiple passes, a razor knife was used to cut the BT. You must be careful not to cut too deep and penetrate the motor tube. When one line was cut, I repositioned the ruler and cut another. Finally, all that was left was the very short cut at either end of the slots. I cut these by simply inserting the razor knife until its width completed the slices. These are by far the straightest cuts I have made in a tube to date.

The guide was then removed.

atlantis-wrap-1.jpg

atlantis-wrap-2.jpg

atlantis-slots.jpg
 
The first of the fins to go in place is the belly fin. It is actually composed of 3 pieces of plywood. The central, first, piece is the largest and has a notch in the leading edge to accomodate a dowel. The other two pieces have the same lower profile but only extend to just above the slot for the dowel. Taken together, they form a slot for the dowel.

The center fin is installed first. I used a needle to prick a set of holes along the line it was to be mounted on. This was so that the glue could form "rivets" that penetrate the BT. I then put some yellow glue on the root edge of the fin, pressed it place and immediately removed it. I then let both glue trails dry so that I could form the double glue joint. When dry, I applied some more glue to the root edge and carefully placed the fin.

The instructions warn that you should NOT try to form a fillet at this point.

atlantis-belly-fin-1.jpg
 
The reason you are warned not to fillet the fin yet is that the two outer pieces still have to be applied. When the fin was dry, I applied glue to the interior face of the outer piece and the root edge and pressed it into place on the central fin. I noticed that both of my side peices were ever so slightly warped and did not want to sit flat against the central piece. I could find none of the clamps that are hidden around the disaster area I call a workshop but I did notice the battery leads to my battery charger. They did the clamping just fine.

atlantis-belly-fin-2.jpg

atlantis-belly-fin-4.jpg

atlantis-belly-fin-3.jpg
 
John, good progress on the build thus far --- thanks for the pix, too!

Somehow, I can hear Scotty chuckling over those last pix with the battery charger cables..."He's found out me secret for recharging the warp core while in drydock!".

(I'll bet Dave at Sirius got a chuckle out of it, too). :)

Your use of these "unorthodox" clamps just goes to show that (a) you think fast when you need to, and (b) necessity remains the mother of invention. :D
 
"unorthodox clamps ";)

Makeing good use of what you have on hand. I like it..... whee'l make a hillbilly out of you yet.

Just tell folks that your useing a new top-secret glue that gets stronger with electrical current.



.
 
John, good progress on the build thus far --- thanks for the pix, too!

Somehow, I can hear Scotty chuckling over those last pix with the battery charger cables..."He's found out me secret for recharging the warp core while in drydock!".

(I'll bet Dave at Sirius got a chuckle out of it, too). :)

Your use of these "unorthodox" clamps just goes to show that (a) you think fast when you need to, and (b) necessity remains the mother of invention. :D

Thanks for the kind words but what the cables really came down to is that I got tired of swatting mosquitos while pinching the wood together. I'd start a swat and realize that my flyswatter was intended for 24mm motors. It has gotten very humid around here in anticipation of hurricane Ike.
 
"unorthodox clamps ";)

Makeing good use of what you have on hand. I like it..... whee'l make a hillbilly out of you yet.

Just tell folks that your useing a new top-secret glue that gets stronger with electrical current.



.

Ya mean a hillbilly like these here:



Siriusly, what does a Cape Cod type know about hillbillies or hillbilly parsons?

Y'all come back now, ya hear?

johnleel1a.jpg

BR549.jpg

Web-circuit-rider.jpg
 
That is indeed the part I am dreading but I'll keep plugging away until I get through it. I plan on taking it nice and slow.

Yours looks good. What did you use to get the sparkly finish?

I will be more than happy to build the nacelles for you...... I have extensive experience with vacuform structures and familiarity with the Sirius kits. I only ask that you provide a copy of the kit for my practice........:D

Seriously (insert pun here), there is a very methodical approach you can take with the styrene and if you follow the instructions, you will build a structure that is light, strong and have exquisite detail you can't get from balsa and paper. Vacuform can be very forgiving just don't spill any glue on it.... I would highly recommend Tenax liquid glue for the build of the nacelles.

v/r
Jerry

Oh...and I will build the nacelles if you want...no extra kit required.
 
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