Time travel paradox

I watched Meet the Robinsons recently. The whole story is kicked off by the villan stealing one of two time machines from the inventor's unlocked garage, and the inventor's son (who left the garage unlocked) taking the remaining one, following the villan through time to mitigate his evil intentions.

I was reading on IMDB and someone suggested that the boy should have skipped following the villan and gone back in time earlier that evening, and locked the garage. There wouldn't have been a movie, but it's a good question. What do you think would have happened?

A. Would the door locking prevent the villan from stealing the time machine, eliminating the need to go back, and therefore the boy would have never gone back and the door would become unlocked again?

or

B. Would the door locking end the villan's time travel, because he cannot steal the time machine; but the time travel from the "first time around," when things were different would still have the effect of having the boy go lock the door? Then the door would remain locked, and the time trip to lock it would still exist, but noone would remember it.

This is exactly why time travel is universally banned. It makes your head hurt too much trying to reason through these paradoxes. That's why our hobby was invented, to keep us from making our brains fluffy over time travel issues.

TWRackers said:

This is exactly why time travel is universally banned. It makes your head hurt too much trying to reason through these paradoxes. That's why our hobby was invented, to keep us from making our brains fluffy over time travel issues.

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Just reading that made my head hurt...of course I've had two exams today and have been studying for a Civil War Essay Exam and a few others :cry: so my head was already hurting

TWRackers said:

That's why our hobby was invented, to keep us from making our brains fluffy over time travel issues.

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That's until they make a REAL Warp 9 motor, and then time is ours to bend!

By subscribing to the time travel theory.....doesn't that suggest that the future would need to be pre recorded and history stored on some mystical VCR device for all eternity???

It's gonna have to be a mighty big Blueray device!!!:lol:

10fttall said:

A. Would the door locking prevent the villan from stealing the time machine, eliminating the need to go back, and therefore the boy would have never gone back and the door would become unlocked again?

or

B. Would the door locking end the villan's time travel, because he cannot steal the time machine; but the time travel from the "first time around," when things were different would still have the effect of having the boy go lock the door? Then the door would remain locked, and the time trip to lock it would still exist, but noone would remember it.

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One way out of this is to view time travel as actually travelling between multiple parallel universes, each of which has a different version of how such decisions turned out. So the boy goes back and locks the door, and is now in a universe in which the villain didn't go anywhere. In another universe, he forgot to lock the door the villain went off on his time journey, spawning a whole lot more parallel universes in the process. The story just follows the most interesting of those universes, for certain values of "interesting".

Alternatively, a universe which permits time travel is a feedback loop system. There may be a few ripples, then the universe settles down to a stable system. Either the boy forgets to lock the door, the villain gets the time machine, and the boy does not go back to lock the door; or the boy remembers to lock the door in the first place and the villain goes nowhere. Or the boy goes back to lock the door just as the villain arrives and the villain clonks the boy on the head.

Scoop1261 said:

By subscribing to the time travel theory.....doesn't that suggest that the future would need to be pre recorded and history stored on some mystical VCR device for all eternity???

It's gonna have to be a mighty big Blueray device!!!:lol:

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That's what's at the centre of the galaxy. The rest of the galaxy is just the player.

Scoop1261 said:

By subscribing to the time travel theory.....doesn't that suggest that the future would need to be pre recorded and history stored on some mystical VCR device for all eternity???

It's gonna have to be a mighty big Blueray device!!!:lol:

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That's not how I understand it....

"Time Travel" is relative to the perception of the traveller. This is where quantum theory and time travel with relation to speed near, equal to, or above the speed of light comes into play.

Without getting too wordy - travelling into the "future" just means that time "speeds up" significantly for the traveller, during travel. Meaning, say I wanted to travel 10 years into the future. I jump in my time machine, set the dials, and hit the "go" button. The machine whirrs and purrs and 10 seconds later, I'm 10 years in the future. That 10 seconds of travel is my perception. The the 10 years of actual time to everyone else actually occurred (nothing was pre-recorded) - I was simply in a state where to me, a year was realized as a single second. I stayed in that stasis/perception state for 10 seconds, which when I came back to the same state of perception as everyone else, turned out to be 10 years.

Think of it another way. You are observing a "time traveller" going into the future, someone going forward 10 years. You see some guy go into some form of "stasis" and stay that way. You go on with your life, and 10 years pass. You and everything around you ages and grows 10 years. Except for the "traveller" in stasis, who wakes up (or exits his "time travel" device) without having aged or changed, and who's conciousness only experienced 10 seconds of time since he entered what appeared to you as "stasis."



Going back in time, now that's a bit weirder. Theoretically, this is where travelling at, near, or above the speed of light comes into play. That's a fun read online if you're interested. The going "forward" in time is easier to explain from a theoretical point-of-view of both the traveller and the observer.

You can't travel back into your past unless you already did, which of course you didn't. So, if you do travel back in time you create a new parallel universe in which you did. You can then travel forwards in time from there, but of course, you're still in the parallel universe.

I would have just activated the Omega 13.

Review the "Back to the Future" movies - if you change the future the present is also changed. But also if you change the past, you change the present - remember when his parents did not meet therefore he and his brother/sister disappeared from the picture?

But who really knows what will happen, no one has done either of these.

adrian said:

One way out of this is to view time travel as actually travelling between multiple parallel universes, each of which has a different version of how such decisions turned out. So the boy goes back and locks the door, and is now in a universe in which the villain didn't go anywhere. In another universe, he forgot to lock the door the villain went off on his time journey, spawning a whole lot more parallel universes in the process. The story just follows the most interesting of those universes, for certain values of "interesting".

Alternatively, a universe which permits time travel is a feedback loop system. There may be a few ripples, then the universe settles down to a stable system. Either the boy forgets to lock the door, the villain gets the time machine, and the boy does not go back to lock the door; or the boy remembers to lock the door in the first place and the villain goes nowhere. Or the boy goes back to lock the door just as the villain arrives and the villain clonks the boy on the head.

That's what's at the centre of the galaxy. The rest of the galaxy is just the player.

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Ditto. This is how I see it. The moment he travels into the past he is in a different, parallel universe. There's really no other explanation if you *accept* time travel.

For example, I *know* that I will never get to a time machine, go back in time, and visit myself on my wedding day. How do I know? Because I was AT my wedding, and I never met myself. Now, I can't speak for a "me" in another universe, but I am quite certain about the "me" in this one

Likewise, the character in this story *knows* that he didn't/won't/can't go back in time in *his* universe because he can see that the door was left unlocked. If, at some point in the future, he decides to go back in time, it would have to be to a parallel universe as his door is *still* unlocked...

As for time travel, I love doing classes where I actually SHOW the kids how to travel in time (it's actually quite easy). I point out that it is now 1:00 pm (or whatever time it is) then go on with my lecture. After about 20 min I point out that it is now 1:20 - the future. It's a slow, low-tech process, but it seems to work every time

Travel into the past doesn't work, but you can certainly SEE into the past. If you were to find a method of instantaneous space travel and travel about 38.3 light years out and had a telescope powerful enough you could watch the moon landing LIVE...

Yeah, this stuff'll keep you up nights LOL

jim

I recommend the time travel novel "The Man Who Folded Himself" by David Gerrold (the guy who wrote "The Trouble With Tribbles" for Star Trek) - I think it is one of the best in the genre. I believe it's been out of print for quite some time, so you'll have to haunt the used book stores (or order from Amazon - they have a couple of new copies yet and a number of used copies available).

I actually posted a completely logical, practical, well-thought out response that would have clarified all the paradox questions.

But then I thought, why ruin my perfect record of illogical, impractical, knee-jerk responses? So I went back in time and stopped myself from posting it. And if I hadn't told you, how would you ever know?

propbeany said:

I actually posted a completely logical, practical, well-thought out response that would have clarified all the paradox questions.

But then I thought, why ruin my perfect record of illogical, impractical, knee-jerk responses? So I went back in time and stopped myself from posting it. And if I hadn't told you, how would you ever know?

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Because you were locked into another aspect of time travel, Fate or Destiny.

It was pre-ordained that you would post this, there's no escapeing it.

My time machine has ONSTAR,so if it's stolen,i can disable it remotely!!:rotflol:

D-12 Dave said:

My time machine has ONSTAR,so if it's stolen,i can disable it remotely!!:rotflol:

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In that event, can you program it to disable the car BEFORE it's stolen?

The real answer is:

It's a movie. As such the physical and logical laws of that universe are built and maintained only by the combined impact of the script, the writers, the actors, the director, the producers, the production company, the caterer, etc.

It is a fantasy land that has no boundaries other than those that the public balks at.


On a more interesting note: Read James P. Hogan's "Trice Upon a Time" if you want a good time travel story that involves ONLY the sending of information - not objects - through time.