"Standard" Rail buttons?

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uncle_vanya

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This weekend in Orangeburg I found out that a "standard" rail is not "standard". The common rails in Orangeburg are not made from 1010. I think the rails are Blacksky brand. The problem is that the buttons that fit 1010 are thicker and do not fit at all on the rails in Orangeburg.

This is a pain in the rump.

The club I fly with normally has all 1010 or 1510 rails and so I have never run into this before. Is this common? Do the BlackSky buttons work well on 1010?
 
Yep, not an unheard of problem. You'll find more clubs with 1010 than BlackSky rail, though -- I encountered it for the first time ever while helping a friend at AirFest this weekend.

Yes, BlackSky buttons will fit 1010 rail.

-Kevin
 
WillMarchant said:
Whose buttons are you using?

https://www.railbuttons.com/rb/faq.asp#compatibility claims that his "standard" buttons will fit 1010 and BlackSky rail.
Click to expand...

I'm using Ken Allen's buttons that use a rubber expanding plug to mount. These will ONLY fit the 1010 rails. He also carries BlackSky rail buttons but these do not work with the rubber expanding plugs because of the size of the hole for the screw/bolt. I might be able to modify some BlackSky buttons to work.

BTW - While in Orangeburg I have seen a number of people come to Ken and purchase BlackSky buttons saying that the Railbuttons.com buttons that they purchased did not fit the rails there. They may have tighter tolerances than normal and this may be an extreme example but it is also possible that many BlackSky rails will not fit the railbuttons.com buttons.
 
Good to have met you at the launch. Sorry you could not get in on the CJDR, but there will be many more! I was using buttons from railbuttons .com that day, and they fit just fine. As you know I've been to clubs all over the place and these have fit all rails that I have encountered.
 
uncle_vanya said:
I'm using Ken Allen's buttons that use a rubber expanding plug to mount. These will ONLY fit the 1010 rails. He also carries BlackSky rail buttons but these do not work with the rubber expanding plugs because of the size of the hole for the screw/bolt. I might be able to modify some BlackSky buttons to work.

I buy well nuts at Ace Hardware that work with the Black Sky buttons.

Bob
Click to expand...
 
uncle_vanya said:
I'm using Ken Allen's buttons that use a rubber expanding plug to mount. These will ONLY fit the 1010 rails. He also carries BlackSky rail buttons but these do not work with the rubber expanding plugs because of the size of the hole for the screw/bolt. I might be able to modify some BlackSky buttons to work.

BTW - While in Orangeburg I have seen a number of people come to Ken and purchase BlackSky buttons saying that the Railbuttons.com buttons that they purchased did not fit the rails there. They may have tighter tolerances than normal and this may be an extreme example but it is also possible that many BlackSky rails will not fit the railbuttons.com buttons.
Click to expand...
I visit a lot of different different launch sites and I've never had a problem with the buttons from railbuttons.com. Both the large and small have always fit every rail I've tried to fly on. Dump the Ken Allen buttons, replace them with Matt's and you'll be OK.

Andrew Grippo
 
agrippo said:
I visit a lot of different different launch sites and I've never had a problem with the buttons from railbuttons.com. Both the large and small have always fit every rail I've tried to fly on. Dump the Ken Allen buttons, replace them with Matt's and you'll be OK.

Andrew Grippo
Click to expand...

Respectfully... I have seen more than one flyer at the field in Orangeburg with the problem with Railbuttons.com buttons. I am starting to suspect the rails not the buttons - they seem to have very tight tolerances.

As for the Ken Allen buttons - they are sooooo easy to mount. You can do this after building if you decide to retrofit. They require no access to the space behind the tube. I like the system of attachment better than any other I have tried.

Next step - railbuttons that fit and drilling out the centers to fit the backing rubber stopper.
 
WillMarchant said:
If rail buttons aren't fitting, perhaps the rails are dirty? https://www.railbuttons.com/rb/cleanrail.asp is an article about easy rail cleaning.

The railbuttons.com buttons are sized for #8 hardware. McMaster-Carr has well nuts sized for #8 hardware. The part number is 93495A130.
Click to expand...

Will - Thanks for the ideas. But it's more than dirt. The buttons I have are a nice secure fit on 1010 but they are too thick to fit on the rails in Orangeburg. It's not dirt...

I'm going to see about mounting some BlackSky buttons on the opposite side of some of these rockets - or bring my own 1010 or 1510 rail.
 
I flew my level 2 off a rail made from a non 80/20 slotted aluminum which the owner regularly flew blacksky buttons. The nylon spacer of Matt's buttons were too thick to fit the grove. Luckily I was able borrow his blacksky buttons since we both used #8 machine screws (another guy glued is buttons on so he wasn't so lucky). The rail owner's company had used the extrusions for a fixture they no longer needed so he didn't know the manufacturer. It was very ridged as it had 2 or 3 slots along the side (like the 1020 or 1030).

I went to ACE hardware and they had 'nylon spacers' in one of those little drawers. I found one which wasn't as thick, so it fit in the grove but was a bit tigher on the screw. Buy a varity and toss them into the launch box.

Because the nylon drags on the aluminum, I do not understand why one would install them so they can not easily be replaced.
 
narmember said:
Because the nylon drags on the aluminum, I do not understand why one would install them so they can not easily be replaced.
Click to expand...

Agreed. These are easy to take on and off and simple to maintain. Delrin would be nicer but I haven't seen those made like this.
 
I remember that being a problem years ago at Orangeburg. Until then, I had no idea standard rails weren't 'standard'. I also remember back then the aluminum Black Sky buttons were the latest trendy rage in the hobby....and those were REALLY bad on some of those rails (which ever ones they fit loosely in).

Bringing your own rail is not a bad idea. Last time I went to Orangeburg, that's exactly what I did.

-Rich
 
Could the difference be in the type of railbutton that Matt sells. Are the Delrin buttons a different size somehow then the Nylon buttons. I use the Delrin buttons and maybe that's why I've never had any issues.

Andrew
 
does blacksky use 80/20 brand ? there are dozens of extrusion brands out there
and all the manufactures also supply metric which can easily pass for standard
unless you actually measured it.

with 80/20 ,inch has tiny grooves along the sides(that like to trap the soot) ,metric is smooth.
 

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