Sport Scale Competition Kit Suggestions?

[PunkRocketScience]

Hi all-

I am competing in a Sport Scale event with DART at the end of May. Can anyone make any suggestions on a good kit?

Scale is one of the events that I don't have any experience with. I have built some pretty basic scale kits before (Estes Black Brants, Polecat V2, Quest Terrier Orion, a scratch Javelin, etc.) but I'm not sure how accurate they would be for a Sport Scale competition.

I am just finishing up a Estes Maxi Honest John. Would that be a good candidate? I also has an Estes Saturn V and a Semroc Saturn 1B sitting in my build pile, but am intimidated by both of those... Would either of those make good entries? I feel like I have somewhat above average building skills, but haven't tried anything with the jillion parts that are in those monsters...

[MarkII]

ASP makes some pretty decent scale kits.

MK

[TheAviator]

The Honest John would definitely make a good entry. I would be sure to get your scale data before you start painting, if you haven't already. The kit won't earn you very many Degree of Difficulty points, but you will still do well if you have a good finish and filled the spirals well, etc.

What it comes down to is, pick a model you like and have fun with it. You can work your way up to more complex models as you get more skilled.

As to kits, the FlisKits Thunderbird is a good one, ASP has some nice kits, and Cosmodrome also has some nice ones if you're willing to shell out the money. The Quest MLAS is fairly nice. Madcow makes some scale-ish models if you want something a little larger, though I would add extra detail to their kits if competing with them.

[georgegassaway]

I suggest you check the NARAM tips page I wrote for Sport Scale, as posted at the NARAM-51 website:

http://www.psc473.org/naram51/contest/SpScale.htm

That tips page covers both Peanut Sport Scale, and Science fiction/Future Sport Scale. The only difference between those two are size (Peanut) and prototype (Fictional or never flew). For Regular Sport Scale you can ignore the stuff about size, and the stuff about Sci-Fi/Future. But do pay attention to the Data requirements (which is pretty easy for the Sport Scale events).

There are lots of links at the bottom of the page for various sources for Scale kits.

- George Gassaway

[chanstevens]

The ASP Loki Dart and 24/18mm Wac Corporal are decent kits, but one of my favorites in terms of bang for the buck, competition-wise, is the Saturn Press Aerobee 1500. Lots of details, not too tough to model.

[PunkRocketScience]

Thanks for the info guys!

One quick question... For a lot of the Dr. Zooch kits, his "flame fins" are added... How does this usually go over with sport scale judges? Or since I know who the judge will be, is it kosher to ask him? Don't want to break the contest etiquette....

[TheAviator]

Thanks for the info guys!

One quick question... For a lot of the Dr. Zooch kits, his "flame fins" are added... How does this usually go over with sport scale judges? Or since I know who the judge will be, is it kosher to ask him? Don't want to break the contest etiquette....

It never goes well, no matter who is judging. The "flame fins" are not part of the original model's outline, so you lose a lot of points there. You want to use clear plastic fins if you need that extra bit of stability. Clear styrene works well for small (13mm or less) models, and Lexan (Polycarbonate) works well for everything beyond that. You can also get clear tubing from Semroc and others if you need to extend the fins behind the model, although the glue joints will get unseemly.

[chanstevens]

Thanks for the info guys!

One quick question... For a lot of the Dr. Zooch kits, his "flame fins" are added... How does this usually go over with sport scale judges? Or since I know who the judge will be, is it kosher to ask him? Don't want to break the contest etiquette....

With any experienced/competent judge, you should get killed for those. Don't ever model details or structure that are not supported by the drawing/photo you submit, and by the same token don't submit drawing/photo that includes details or structure you did not model.

I love the Zooch kits for sport, but they're poopy for competition--the wraps are good detail, but give up too many degree of difficulty points, tend to have things like flame fins, etc. and many of them are pretty hard to find good sale data on for turning in your data packet.

Note--I've seen many disappointed Saturn modelers who slave away at their models only to get major dings for having to skip the nozzles for motor mounts, or who include the "display nozzles" not realizing the model has to be judged in flight-ready condition.

As for talking to the judge, nothing taboo about that. In my case I hardly ever get to chat before hand, but always make a point to discuss my model afterwards, looking for things that affected my score so I know what to improve on.

[Initiator001]

An AeroTech IQSY Tomahawk would make a good sport scale model.

Plus, you can fly it on 'G' motors.

[H_Rocket]

Cosmodrome makes some good kits to look at.

[Massrokit]

Check BMS Always Astrobee 1500 Kit. Well done and easy to add detail. About 35 dollars. BMS= Balsa Machining Service.

[Dr.Zooch]

I agree with everything said here. My kits were never intended to compete in the sport areas, so don't use them or any of the methods for anything that will cause you to lose points- do what is best to win.

[PunkRocketScience]

Thanks for putting in your 2 cents Doc... I still love the way your kits look! I was hopeful that they would be kosher for competitions because you offer such a great variety of kits not available anywhere else!

[sandman]

I agree with everything said here. My kits were never intended to compete in the sport areas, so don't use them or any of the methods for anything that will cause you to lose points- do what is best to win.

Yes, but if one of your kits win I'm sure you wouldn't mind.

[Zack Lau]

I think the ASP kits have the best chance of winning if, like most of us, you don't have a lot of time.

[ScrapDaddy]

How bout a Flis MMX Honest John, I would take advantage of the fact that they have to judge from 3 feet away.....

[Micromeister]

Just keep in mind if your starting from a kit. Do not accept that everything in the kit is actually to scale. Be sure to remeasure everything. Particularly fins and body tubes. They can be a KILLER on scale outline points

SD: your understanding of the "Sport Scale" rules leaves much to be desired. Only the overall outline and markings are "Judged from 3 feet away". Judges can as closely inspect the details, components and finishing as they wish.
Remember you have to MODEL the real world vehicle depicted in your documentation so selection a single round is generally better then a mass producted missle where markings, placement and colors can vary widely. Which is why a very good clear color photo is preferred over a single color keyed drawing If you present multi photos..be sure they are of the same round or as least identical rounds. if a detail is present on one photo and not another don't enclude the differing pic.

[ScrapDaddy]

Woops, I could have sworn when I read the rules that the judges had to stay 3 feet away. Maybe you need to build smaller than a MMX.....

[sandman]

Apogee Saturn 1b!

So easy to build an 8 year old can do it!

[chanstevens]

Apogee Saturn 1b!

So easy to build an 8 year old can do it!

Actually she had to build 2-3 before she was satisfied with the finish. Then she went out and built a few RCRG's for kicks. A true prodigy...

[ojames3]

http://www.tccnar.org

The most important thing to know about NAR Sport Scale competition is the rules. You can build a beautiful rocket from a great kit and lose because of your supporting data or other items required by the rules.

The Competition Consortium has an excellent Sport Scale pack for competitors and judges alike. It features articles by Peter Alway and John Pursley with many links to kits and more information.

http://ojames3.tripod.com/tccnarcont...rimerMenu.html

O. Lee James, III NAR 15058 SR L0
TCC Custodian http://www.tccnar.org
contestRoc co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contestRoc/

[PunkRocketScience]

Wow! Thanks for sharing the link! That pages looks like an amazing wealth of information!

http://www.tccnar.org

The most important thing to know about NAR Sport Scale competition is the rules. You can build a beautiful rocket from a great kit and lose because of your supporting data or other items required by the rules.

The Competition Consortium has an excellent Sport Scale pack for competitors and judges alike. It features articles by Peter Alway and John Pursley with many links to kits and more information.

http://ojames3.tripod.com/tccnarcont...rimerMenu.html

O. Lee James, III NAR 15058 SR L0
TCC Custodian http://www.tccnar.org
contestRoc co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contestRoc/

[dave carver]

A SEMROC Iris is a beautiful rocket for any scale competetion. Quality of the parts topnotch and it has one georgous nosecone

[chanstevens]

A SEMROC Iris is a beautiful rocket for any scale competetion. Quality of the parts topnotch and it has one georgous nosecone

It's a beautiful rocket, but cannot be entered in NAR competition. It never flew without the booster, and the kit does not include the booster. Similar to the WAC Corporal--there are nice WAC's out there, but make sure if entering a competition you bring along a bumper or tiny tim to get it started...

[PunkRocketScience]

Just an update for you on the competition...

My Maxi-Hojo tied for first place! I earned 630 points for static judging with 75 points for flight. I suffered a but of damage when the rocket hit another launch pad on landing.

A quick note on documentation... Be careful what condition the rockets are in that you submit photos of! The Hojos in the pictures I submitted showed some weathering on them, so I lost points for submitting a perfectly clean, pristine model!

[dave carver]

It's a beautiful rocket, but cannot be entered in NAR competition. It never flew without the booster, and the kit does not include the booster. Similar to the WAC Corporal--there are nice WAC's out there, but make sure if entering a competition you bring along a bumper or tiny tim to get it started...

As I recall it was a very short multicluster that burned out before it left the launch tower. I don't know about the burn time of the MMX motors but I'll bet a booster could be fabbed up, I'd use a flash in the pan method of ignition.

The MMX motors would have to burn fast because of the minus points situation for a non standard flight profile.

So I'd say it could be used with the proper mods

[Bravo52]

With any experienced/competent judge, you should get killed for those. Don't ever model details or structure that are not supported by the drawing/photo you submit, and by the same token don't submit drawing/photo that includes details or structure you did not model.

I love the Zooch kits for sport, but they're poopy for competition--the wraps are good detail, but give up too many degree of difficulty points, tend to have things like flame fins, etc. and many of them are pretty hard to find good sale data on for turning in your data packet.

I don't agree. I think you totally miss the point. Sport scale is just that "sport" not "scale". The purpose is to build a model of a flying replica of a real rocket vehicle that exhibits maximum craftsmanship in construction, finish, and flight performance. The "Scale" competition is to "produce an accurate, flying replica of a real rocket vehicle that exhibits maximum craftsmanship in construction, finish, and flight performance".. If you include flame fins, they are not a disqualifier, so if it looks about right and flies well then your trading static points for flight points. Case in point, what would you rather do, lose up to 50 pts for static scoring and max the flight points, or build a really cool looking scale model and have it core sample? Who loses more points?

Since we are talking about opinions here, NAR should add semi-scale for the "everything counts but the dimension" and let "sport scale" be for the new guys that haven't competed before....I mean come on, how are we going to get more modelers interested in rocketry competition when we let guys with hundreds of scale models compete with people that have only built a few? That is the ultimate in discouragement. I'd rather see a new rocketeer build a nice-looking model that flies well and adheres to all the safety requirements than one that looks perfect and is nothing more than a projectile.....perhaps one argument is we don’t have enough people competing…well go figure. Besides I think the IPMS deals with those “better off static” type models.....

[Bravo52]

It's a beautiful rocket, but cannot be entered in NAR competition. It never flew without the booster, and the kit does not include the booster. Similar to the WAC Corporal--there are nice WAC's out there, but make sure if entering a competition you bring along a bumper or tiny tim to get it started...

I wonder if a basic WAC would qualify as a "non flying prototype"

53.4 Non-Flying Prototypes
Entries in Sport Scale Competition may model non-flying or inert prototypes.

[JRThro]

http://ojames3.tripod.com/tccnarcont...rimerMenu.html

O. Lee James, III NAR 15058 SR L0
TCC Custodian http://www.tccnar.org
contestRoc co-moderator http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contestRoc/

Hi, Lee!

Good to see you here, and thanks for the post.

[JRThro]

In my case I hardly ever get to chat before hand, but always make a point to discuss my model afterwards, looking for things that affected my score so I know what to improve on.

Chan, from what little I know about you, you hardly ever get to *sleep* before hand, let alone chat!