Li Poly Batteries

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11v and 20A which is what I've seen most R/C Li-Poly pack running can weld mild steel(thin steel, but it can be done). These batteries are not toys. The amount of power in them is rather impressive.

I have a NiMH pack that is 12v and can burst discharge(dead short) at 45A (10,000mAh). Its not light nor small and so would never be put in a rocket but it'd be able to power just about any electronics for days and days on a full charge. I wasn't paying attention once and let the leads short on a screwdriver. It vaporized a small divot into the screwdriver where the second lead made contact.

Not fear, but respect, careful handling and knowledge of what is safe is all that is needed.

-Aaron
 
Originally posted by heada
11v and 20A which is what I've seen most R/C Li-Poly pack running can weld mild steel(thin steel, but it can be done). These batteries are not toys. The amount of power in them is rather impressive.

I have a NiMH pack that is 12v and can burst discharge(dead short) at 45A (10,000mAh). Its not light nor small and so would never be put in a rocket but it'd be able to power just about any electronics for days and days on a full charge. I wasn't paying attention once and let the leads short on a screwdriver. It vaporized a small divot into the screwdriver where the second lead made contact.

Not fear, but respect, careful handling and knowledge of what is safe is all that is needed.

-Aaron



Ouch! I know someone who up a 9 volt lithium in his pocket. He almost drove off the road when the tip of the battery made contack with the change in his pocket. I never got all the details but it seems he ended up with a serious burn where a male has a choice will not select.

Which brings me back to an earlier thought. The BATF is bothering us because? What one can do with a couple of LiPoly batteries and a few other goodies is truely scary. Many inert like everyday chemicals and materials become something entirely different at high temperature. LiPoly appears to be the perfect little portable furnace.

It does seem lithium primary batteries are the safest way to go. They may get hot when shorted but they do not seem to be as dangerous as LiIOn or LiPoly rechargeable batteries.
 
I think DC is not as dangerous as AC.

Actually, DC can be very dangerous. In my physics class we were werking with a DC battery and it shocked the professor really bad. The plasma arc caused him to bleed.

EDIT: BUT YES, IN A LOT OF CASES, AC IS MORE DANGEROUS.
 
Here's some data on electrical hazards from the CDC:

Standard utilization voltages produce currents passing through a human body in the milliampere (mA) range (1,000 mA=1 Amp). Estimated effects of 60 Hz AC currents which pass through the chest are shown in Table 1.

Table 1. Estimated Effects of 60 Hz AC Currents

1 mA Barely perceptible
16 mA Maximum current an average man can grasp and "let go"
20 mA Paralysis of respiratory muscles
100 mA Ventricular fibrillation threshold
2 Amps Cardiac standstill and internal organ damage
15/20 Amps Common fuse or breaker opens circuit*

*Contact with 20 milliamps of current can be fatal....
When current greater than the 16 mA "let go current" passes through the forearm, it stimulates involuntary contraction of both flexor and extensor muscles. When the stronger flexors dominate, victims may be unable to release the energized object they have grasped as long as the current flows. If current exceeding 20 mA continues to pass through the chest for an extended time, death could occur from respiratory paralysis. Currents of 100 mA or more, up to 2 Amps, may cause ventricular fibrillation, probably the most common cause of death from electric shock.11 Ventricular fibrillation is the uneven pumping of the heart due to the uncoordinated, asynchronous contraction of the ventricular muscle fibers of the heart that leads quickly to death from lack of oxygen to the brain. Ventricular fibrillation is terminated by the use of a defibrillator, which provides a pulse shock to the chest to restore the heart rhythm. Cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) is used as a temporary care measure to provide the circulation of some oxygenated blood to the brain until a defibrillator can be used.23
...
The presence of moisture from environmental conditions such as standing water, wet clothing, high humidity, or perspiration increases the possibility of a low-voltage electrocution. The level of current passing through the human body is directly related to the resistance of its path through the body. Under dry conditions, the resistance offered by the human body may be as high as 100,000 Ohms. Wet or broken skin may drop the body's resistance to 1,000 Ohms. The following illustrations of Ohm's law demonstrates how moisture affects low-voltage electrocutions. Under dry conditions, Current=Volts/Ohms = 120/100,000 = 1 mA, a barely perceptible level of current. Under wet conditions, Current=Volts/Ohms = 120/1,000 = 120 mA, sufficient current to cause ventricular fibrillation. Wet conditions are common during low-voltage electrocutions.

So with wet skin, the highest safe voltage is around 16-20V, or more if the source has its own internal resistance that can significantly add to 1000 Ohms. I've seen other sources that consider DC 42V and under safe, as far as electrocution goes. So we really don't have to worry about getting electrocuted by low-voltage batteries of any type. Burns from high current (or shooting flames :eek: ) are another matter, of course.

We should be careful to make a distinction between large, powerful RC car or airplane batteries and much smaller varieties. I'm planning on using a mechanically and electrically well-protected, tiny (1.2 g) Li-Po battery for the altimeter that I'm designing. The total electrical energy stored in the battery is about 2 kJ, about equal to the energy of 1/2 gram of black powder. The abused batteries in the (spectactular, yes) videos of are hundreds to thousands of times this size. Just because it's a Li-poly battery doesn't make it inherently unsafe.
 
Originally posted by Adrian A
Just because it's a Li-poly battery doesn't make it inherently unsafe.

Amen.

Glad to finally hear a voice of reason in here.

-- Greg, "Surrounded by LiPo's and not a BIT worried" Clark
 
Will it happen? This is the point of the thread. What are the odds? What are the issues? This is sort of an open jamming session to throw out all the concerns and then try to come to a consensus. For example, I did not know I needed to be concerned about leaving a lithium battery pack in my car or in a rocket on a very hot day. It seems LiPo batteries come with warnings about not over heating the battery. Sitting out in the sun getting hot could cause a problem with a power pack consisting of rechargeable lipoly batteries. They can like explode or catch your rocket, house or car on fire if they get over heated.

As I recall even Beeline has a very serious warning in red not to overcharge, undercharge or short the lithium battery because doing so can cause an explosion or a fire. This warning in red seems to back up the concerns pointed out by others. Granted, the lithium battery in the Beeline battery is small but a lithium (depending on the rating) can deliver a 10C to 40C their rated amperage for a short period.

My wireless mouse blew up when one 1.5v 2200 mAh lithium primary battery exploded. If I had been in the room near the mouse when it exploded there is a good chance I would have been blinded. If I had not have moved my writing tablet a fire could have resulted. I have never had an alkaline blow anything apart.

If all that was being used was one small lithium battery powering a beacon, probability is even in a crash would be no big deal, but we are not talking about just a beacon battery. Rocketeers use power hungry electronics including standalone GPS units which provide a lot of amperage that can cause problems if the battery packs are damaged.
 
Arnold,

I would say that the safest alternative would be the use of NiMH's for the intended application. While they are generally 30% heavier than Lipo's, they are indeed much safer and can handle some requirements, while maintaining their voltage level under load better than NiCads.

The reasons Lipo's have become so popular is due to their lighter weight, ability to maintain voltage levels under load over the consumption time period and finally their ability to provide very high current ratings. Some of my R/C applications can require high currents and some of the Lipo's used can supply 64-125 amps continuously until drained or up to 250amps for short bursts and voltage levels at 14.8-44 volts DC. These are current ratings and voltages that must be respected when handled and I don't see them as a good fit for our hobby at this time.

For Rocketry though, NiCads, NiMH's and Alkalines can still fit the bill and would be by far the safest method of power.
 
I am starting to lean in the same direction. I might throw in Lithium primary batteries which seem to be reasonably safe if vented.

When you consider that the safety rules require that one a disconnect between the deployment altimeter and the charge to reduce possible even though rare accidental firing of the charge and all the arguements of why we need two deployment systems, including the impact of the power supplies that come with big red letters warning of possible fire and explosion does not seem to be big leap.

Obvioulsy, launching in the desert one has little to be concerned about. The risks are almost all on the users side including their car burning up if the pack ignites from over heating in a car, but everywhere else where there are flamables waiting to catch fire, it is an issue that needs to be addressed and understood.
 
I wouldn't hesitate using Li-Polymer batteries in rocketry application. They'll work just fine if you don't abuse them. For example, taking 20-100 C from a Li-Poly battery for a second or less to light a pyro is not abuse. Doing it continuously until the battery is fully discharged is. My only reservation would be on a very high acceleration rocket where you might have a case failure, and there my issue is not a fire, but rather a failure in the electronics package that would prevent a safe staging and/or recovery.

So far all this thread has proven is that if you don't follow the directions and you abuse a lithium battery on recharge or discharge, you can set them on fire and/or blow them up. NiMH, NIiCaD or PbAC batteries are no safer if you overvoltage them on recharge, they can catch fire and/or blow up too.

Primary Lithium thionyl chloride batteries are definitely not safer than Li poly cells, and they are banned in many non-military applications because they behave particularly badly when abused.

There are at least 24 lithium battery chemistries. Some are more fault tolerant than others. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_battery and references herein

I have used this type of Li primary battery with a number of R-DAS altimeters with great success. (Ultralife brand) https://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=994 Any of these will also work well. https://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=991

These Li-Fe-PO4 rechargeables will even be better. https://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=1072 These are the type made by A123 and are supplied with all Black and Decker power tools, and are what will be in all future hybrid cars. The 9 volt version is particularly well suited for altimeters. https://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3322

In most applications, the proper lithium battery will outperform most other battery chemistries, and will do so safely.

IMO - Smart people can do stupid things. People who can't/won't read directions shouldn't be flying high power rockets, let alone be recharging batteries.

My 2 cents.

Bob
 
You are assuming the rocket doesn't crash hard and that the battery pack escapes damage - big assumption! What happens to a rocket in a tree when there is a rain storm? One can not follow all the safety rules once the rocket leaves the pad which is the problem. Again, personal experiences are nice, but what are the probability of situation occuring that could result in a fire.

My origninal intent was to find out if there are issues. One camp of respondents feel LiPolys are very dangerous and should not be used. Another feels they are okay. The ones concerned are the ones involved in testing batteries or who have some experience with LiPoly batteries that go bad. The other group seems not to have had any problems, yet!

It is the yet that bothers me.

Does NASA use LiPoly or the military. If we know how the government is using them that would answer the question.
 
In the right conditions, almost any nickel metal or lipo battery can kill you. We all need to understand that if handled improperly, lipos can do some hefty damage. The statistics posted early about what it takes to do damage to yourself is correct. 5 ma has been known to kill in a few cases.

A good analogy for amps to volts ratio is to use the waterfall affect. The more water flowing down the waterfall, the higher the amps, and the taller the waterfall, the high the volts. If you stand under a waterfall that is really short (little volts analogy) but the water hitting you is massive (amps) then you will definately feel it but it won't do anything. But... if you stand under a waterfall that is tall and the water hitting you is massive, then the affects will be severe.


Now, back to the thread about how to make lipo batteries work in rockets.
 
Originally posted by chicagonative17
A good analogy for amps to volts ratio is to use the waterfall affect. The more water flowing down the waterfall, the higher the amps, and the taller the waterfall, the high the volts. If you stand under a waterfall that is really short (little volts analogy) but the water hitting you is massive (amps) then you will definately feel it but it won't do anything. But... if you stand under a waterfall that is tall and the water hitting you is massive, then the affects will be severe.

Bad analogy. The flow over the waterfall would have to be dependent on some characateristic of the person standing there in order to correspond with an electrical equivalent.

A better analogy would be a person standing in or near a pipe or hose. Pressure is the voltage, the size of the pipe or hose relative to the person will control the flow (current). Depending on the head capacity of the pressure source (battery) it will have the potential to hold that pressure without dropping as the flow increases. A small pressure through a small hose would allow the person to block the flow without being hurt. A small pressure in a large pipe (significant contact all over your body) could knock you off your feet if the source had the capacity. A high pressure in a small hose would be hard to stop, depending on the part of your body it hits, and could kill you. A high pressure in a large pipe would be a 'food processor'!

Now, the above is DC. AC is like standing in an pipe with no net flow, but the water or wind pushing back and forth on you. You might be able to withstand a low pressure and low frequency. The right frequency that resonates with your body could rip your skin off or pulverize your insides. It wouldn't take much flow (current) if the pulsating pressure (AC voltage) was high enough. A small hose with the same potential (poor contact with your body) might hurt but wouldn't kill you, depending on where it touched.

My record is 5000V AC, 1KHZ, limited to 100uA (0.0001 amps for the kiddies out there). In 1979 (ok, I'm old!) Through my hand into my elbow and back to ground. It took 10 minutes for my fingers to respond and not remain stuck in one position. If it were across my body, you wouldn't be putting up with my BS on this forum right now!

-John DeMar (MSEE)
 
If you are overly concerned about Li-polymer batteries, then hand in your cell phones cause that's what powers them. People drop their cell phones in water every day. It wrecks the cell phone and the battery, but they don't catch fire and blow up.

Li-polymer batteries do not contain metallic lithium, so they will not flame up if they are broken. They will not flame up if they are dumped in freshwater either. They will not catch fire in the rain.

If you purposely abuse them and overcharge them using an unregulated charger not designed for lithium batteries, they can catch fire. If you purposely short a Li-Polymer battery out, it may swell the container and possibly split it, but this also can happen to any high current batteries including NiMH, or Pb if you abuse them. Commercially built Lithium polymer battery packs use readily available built-in protection circuitry and are no more, or no less dangerous than any other high current battery pack.

Careful fliers will have no problems with Li-polymer batteries. There are sufficient warnings and precautions shipped with Li-poly batteries to insure that they can be used safely. If someone chooses not to read and follow the instructions that are included with their batteries, then it's a fair assumption that they don't read the instructions included with their rocket electronics, don't use a checklist when they fly electronics, and have a large percentage of failed flights independent of what batteries they use. Every club has at least one.

Enough said on the subject.

Bob
 
Bob,

A few of your statements there are incorrect. As far as Cell Phones are concerned, you are speaking of a single, low power cell that most likely does have internal circuit protection against shorts, as it is encased in hard plastic protective case for protection. This is again encased in a cell phone case for added protection. I would imagine this is for added consumer safety because as you said, they do tend to be abused at times.

What we were discussing though are the standard, soft pack lipo multi cells, which do not have the benefits of a protective hard case. Moreover, these commercially built Lithium polymer battery packs do not have readily available built-in protection circuitry, as you stated. Rather the protection circuitry is in the device that uses it, whether it be a Receiver, Electronic Speed Controller, Camera or other device. I seriously doubt many of our altimeter or accelerometer devices have built in protection designed for Lipos.

For these reasons, Lipos are indeed more dangerous than your average cell and this is for the most part due to their soft pack construction, which makes them more prone to damage and shorts, their high power capacity and their ability to more easily catch fire when shorted.

Carl
 
Also, every cell phone I've seen has Li-Ion, not Li-Poly, likely because of the increased sensitivity of the Li-Poly cells.
 
Originally posted by cjl
Also, every cell phone I've seen has Li-Ion, not Li-Poly, likely because of the increased sensitivity of the Li-Poly cells.
Please guys, I'm a chemist, and I work in a company that develops advanced Lithium battery designs and chemistries .......

Li-Poly batteries are the form of lithium-ion batteries used in cell phones today. Please read the following paragraph from wikipedia for a simple explanation why this is so.

"Lithium ion polymer batteries, or more commonly lithium polymer batteries (Abbreviated Li-Poly or LiPo) are rechargeable batteries which have technologically evolved from lithium ion batteries. Ultimately, the lithium salt electrolyte is not held in an organic solvent as in the lithium ion design, but in a solid polymer composite such as polyacrylonitrile. There are many advantages of this design over the classic lithium ion design, including the fact that the solid polymer electrolyte is not flammable (unlike the organic solvent that the Li-Ion cell uses). Lithium ion polymer batteries started appearing in consumer electronics around 1996."

The rest of the story is found here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion_polymer_battery

Bob
 
Bob, I'm sure you know a whole bunch more than the rest of us about the chemistry of Lithium-based batteries. And you are correct that they are safe when used properly and are part of a quality-controlled manufacturered system.

However, "existence proof" shows that the average hobby cells being purchased for R/C applications are not as high quality. Add to this the high capacity of the commonly-used cells, then put them into unknown hobby-quality electronics, and then use them in crash-prone applications. We've moved out of the controlled lab environment and into the real world! ;)

-John
 
What is the appeal for Li-Po batteries for rocket electronics? Other than a fraction of an oz of weight savings what is the PRACTICAL benefit?
 
In the same form-factor as the standard 9V battery (or just slightly larger) you get a battery that can deliver much higher amperage. If the electronics can handle it, it should be able to light regular igniters and not low-current e-matches.

https://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXLUJ3&P=ML

thats a good example of what can be had for Li-Poly batteries. That should be able to fire any e-match (probably dozens of them) or most standard igniters. Its also a good example of the warnings that go along with Li-Poly batteries. 11.1V and 13.6A is nothing to sneeze at and most would be hard pressed to find a battery that can do the same.

As I said before, they need not be feared, just respected.

-Aaron
 
Originally posted by heada
In the same form-factor as the standard 9V battery (or just slightly larger) you get a battery that can deliver much higher amperage. If the electronics can handle it, it should be able to light regular igniters and not low-current e-matches.


So can an 8cell NiMH 9v battery. I get 5A out of mine.
 
I'm going to use a 0.16 Ahr, 1.2 gram Li-poly battery because I'm trying to make the smallest logging accelerometer/barometric altimeter/locator beeper that I can, compatible with 18mm diameter, low-power rockets. The only other battery type sufficiently small and light is a 12mm coin cell and it doesn't have nearly the current capability necessary power the loud, small beeper I want to use, which consumes about 100 mA.

Based on the concerns of the community, when I get my prototype done, I'm thinking about doing an aggressive test program. It will start with flying it in a test dummy rocket downward onto my concrete patio, :eek: followed by cooking the thing in a hot car simulator, :eek: :eek:, dunking it in a bucket of water :eek::eek::eek:, and if the design works out as well as I think it will, it will not only avoid bursting into flame, I'll be able to download its data to see how hot it got and to see how many G's it survived in the crash. If it works, I'll upload video of the fun. If not, well, even more reason to upload the video!:D
 
Originally posted by heada
In the same form-factor as the standard 9V battery (or just slightly larger) you get a battery that can deliver much higher amperage. If the electronics can handle it, it should be able to light regular igniters and not low-current e-matches.

https://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXLUJ3&P=ML

thats a good example of what can be had for Li-Poly batteries. That should be able to fire any e-match (probably dozens of them) or most standard igniters. Its also a good example of the warnings that go along with Li-Poly batteries. 11.1V and 13.6A is nothing to sneeze at and most would be hard pressed to find a battery that can do the same.

As I said before, they need not be feared, just respected.

-Aaron

If that's what you want, use NiMH. Much less sensitive, and able to give far greater than merely 15C discharge on demand.
 
I'm a big fan of the LiPoly cell used on the Beeline transmitter.

Why do I like the LiPoly? Because it's smaller and lighter than any other battery that I can use to power the Beeline. And it will last all day. I've been meaning to try them with the altimeters I use.

I use the Beeline in some small rockets (38mm min. diameter for example) where battery weight is significant. I've never had any trouble with those LiPoly cells.

In the name of safety, I'd be happy to do some independent testing on those cells. :) Greg, feel free to send me a couple cells. I'll tell the group what happens when the case is ruptured or when the battery is shorted.

Jim
 
Originally posted by jcsalem
In the name of safety, I'd be happy to do some independent testing on those cells. :) Greg, feel free to send me a couple cells. I'll tell the group what happens when the case is ruptured or when the battery is shorted.

Jim
Jim, those tests have already been done and you can go to RCUniverse to see some movies. If you are looking for something with a high power kick, the 1950FAUP NiMH's can deliver 35-45 amps pretty well, and the newer GP2000 NiMH's are even better and lighter than the FAUP's. A 12V pack weighs about 3-4oz more than an equivelent Lipo pack, 10oz compared to 14oz, so weight shouldn't be a problem for most HPR projects.

Carl
 
Originally posted by jsdemar
Bob, I'm sure you know a whole bunch more than the rest of us about the chemistry of Lithium-based batteries. And you are correct that they are safe when used properly and are part of a quality-controlled manufacturered system.

However, "existence proof" shows that the average hobby cells being purchased for R/C applications are not as high quality. Add to this the high capacity of the commonly-used cells, then put them into unknown hobby-quality electronics, and then use them in crash-prone applications. We've moved out of the controlled lab environment and into the real world! ;)

-John
John

My experience with lithium batteries is in the field, not the lab. I've gun launched them at 20,000 Gs and had them impact terra firma at 4,000 G and they kept ticking.... :D

Lithium poly batteries moved out of lab a decade ago, and that's the only kind of battery you will find in a cell phone today. Considering that during the fourth quarter of 2006, 39 million cell phones were purchased in retail stores in the US alone, and I have only read about a handful of dramatic cell phone batterry failures, I have to assume that those failed Li-Po cell phone batteries were well beyond the 6 sigma reliability point.

Calling the Chinese Li-Po batteries used in R/C cars low quality is false. Virtually all of the battery "Big Boys" manufacture their batteries in China, and China itself is a major consumer of Li-Po batteries. I would be surprised anyone on TRF has a cell phone with Li-Po batteries that were not made in China. In fact China Mobile, the world's largest mobile operator, recently announced that its subscriber base grew to 301 million, surpassing the total population of the United States!

https://www.batteriesdigest.com/lithium_business.htm

https://www.textually.org/textually/archives/cat_random_stats.htm

The Lithium batteries used in laptops are lithium ion batteries with a flamable liquid electrolyte, not Li-Po batteries. Those are the ones you see burning on TV and youtube. Li-Po batteries have a solid polymer electolyte that is not flamable. The only way you will get them to burn is by over voltaging them on charging, which will make metallic lithium, rupturing the case and having the lithium catch fire from the moisture in the air. On rapid discharge Li-Po batteries heat up and the case may rutpture, but they will not burn unless some other component near by overheats and sets the plastic on fire.

Furthermore most rocket folks aren't using the big R/C packs, they're using lightweight small sub AH batteries or packs which can fire a pyro that requires a few amps for a up to a second, and they present far less of a fire hazzard in a crash than an ejection charge that goes off on impact. Because they weigh so much less than other battery types that people fly, I actually consider them less of an impact threat than a heavy NiCaD or NiMH battery packs in a crash scenerio.

Bob
 
Originally posted by bobkrech
John

Lithium poly batteries moved out of lab a decade ago, and that's the only kind of battery you will find in a cell phone today. Considering that during the fourth quarter of 2006, 39 million cell phones were purchased in retail stores in the US alone, and I have only read about a handful of dramatic cell phone batterry failures, I have to assume that those failed Li-Po cell phone batteries were well beyond the 6 sigma reliability point.

Calling the Chinese Li-Po batteries used in R/C cars low quality is false. Virtually all of the battery "Big Boys" manufacture their batteries in China, and China itself is a major consumer of Li-Po batteries. I would be surprised anyone on TRF has a cell phone with Li-Po batteries that were not made in China.

Bob

I just opened up my cell phone (Motorola razer purchased less than 6 months ago) and it has an 3.7V Lithium-Ion battery that was manufactured in Japan. Battery model BR56

I would take a picture of it...but I just took the battery out of my cell phone which has the camera in it. :)

-Aaron
 
Originally posted by bobkrech
Furthermore most rocket folks aren't using the big R/C packs, they're using lightweight small sub AH batteries or packs which can fire a pyro that requires a few amps for a up to a second, and they present far less of a fire hazzard in a crash than an ejection charge that goes off on impact. Because they weigh so much less than other battery types that people fly, I actually consider them less of an impact threat than a heavy NiCaD or NiMH battery packs in a crash scenerio.

I thought we were originally talking about larger packs to power a GPS+Telemetry transmitter system?

Generalizations either way are probably not the best unqualified recommendations. How about some qualified rules of thumb? ...
1) Small lithium ion batteries in a rocket would be fine, as long as you can justify the cost due to required energy density.
2) Charging must be done with the recommended charger. Look out for cheap chargers. Do not overcharge or overheat.
3) Be aware of failure modes in low-cost electronics that could abuse the battery pack.
4) A crash that causes a shorted battery is a fire risk for large battery packs, especially certain(?) Lithium technologies.
5) A crash that splits open certain types(?) of Lithium batteries could be a long-term fire hazard when exposed to moisture.

Agree/disagree/qualify further/any additions?

-John DeMar
 
I really do not feel small LiPoly batteries are a problem. One can simply wrap the battery in some high temperature tape and the issue of fire basically goes away. My concern was with the bigger power packs. I was considering using a 4 amp LiPoly power supply. I did a quick read on possible problems with LiPoly and that was what prompted my starting this thread.

Again, location, location and location is everything. If you are flying a rocket in a rocky area, a desser,t or over water, who cares. The explosion from the water landing might be interesting to watch. If you are launching in an area with freshly fertilized fields, or dry wood lands or grass lands near by, then using LiPoly (1 Amp Hour or more with a high C rating) could be a problem for the land owners.

As far as cheap Chinese batteries go, there are several sites that discuss serious problems using cheap batteries. It was a set of "Great Deal" Chinese batteries that took out my wireless mouse.
 
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