HAM license radio tracking thread?

There was a thread here about rocket tracking and now its gone I guess. It led me to www.bigredbee.com and inspired me to get my amature radio license. There was alot of usefull info with some good links. I hope those same people will chime in again.

Anyway if any of you are interested in rocket tracking transmitters you may know the cost involved. I have recently aquired my HAM license (the equavalent of passing a level 2 test) and purchased my Bigredbee transmitter. I have so far invested just a little over $200 for my reciever (handheld scanner), yagi antenna, amature license, and Beeline transmitter package.

That is an amazing price, compared to Walston or RocketHunter packages consisting of the same basic parts you would spend over $600 or $700 and you dont have the versatility. This is good way to go. Dont let the HAM license aspect scare you away, it not a big deal to take the test, and once you have your license that may be another area of interest for you, maybe not. You only need your license to be able to transmit on the amature band and its valid for ten years. It cost me $14.

KE7LSI,

KE7LSI,

This is N3TJM

You copy? Over?

I'm a big fan of the BigRedBee products. Not only due to their affordability, but also due to the support that Greg provides.

If you look at the thread on Xenon's SLI team, you can see the data we pulled off of a BeeLine GPS.

This past Saturday, we also used a BeeLine tracker to find a rocket which nobody saw recover. If it hadn't been for the BeeLine, Nate would've lost several hundred bucks.

I'm using a Yeasu VX-2r and an Arrow 7 element Yagi. That combination led us right to the rocket.

-Kevin

N3TJM

this is

KE7LSI

I read you,

come back

I think that Beeline is great! And Greg has done a wonderfull job of processing my order, he is very responsive and personable. He responded to all of my concerns quickly and imformatively.

I was looking at the VX-2R myself as well as some other models. When I realized what would take to get a dual band (2m and 440) handheld unit decided to hold off on a legit amature unit until I was realy ready to get more involved with HAM directly. Of course using the GPS unit in the future would require a transiever cable of "packet radio" if I am correct. So I will look into that in the future.

My main motivation was to get on the air and do it on the cheap. Thats why I looked into handheld scanners (the same type used for NASCAR race monitoring), if I had realy looked hard I may have found a used unit for much less than the new price of $79. Mine included some cheap headphones and is perfectly capable of picking up what ever frequency I decide to transmit with the Beeline.

I was look into buying the Arrow 7 yagi but I wanted to build my own just for kicks and to save money. I spent a little more than I wanted on supplies for it but I spent less than $30. One option I found was having a custom yagi from Arrow tuned to the exact frequiency I want for $35. Not bad. The design for the yagi I built was on Gregs website.

$95 for the beeline transmitter kit and $14 for the licence to use it. I think I may been able to do it cheaper if I wasn't so impatient and I challenge anyone to put together a less expensive package, as I think it can be done.

Originally posted by gonogo
I was looking at the VX-2R myself as well as some other models. When I realized what would take to get a dual band (2m and 440) handheld unit decided to hold off on a legit amature unit until I was realy ready to get more involved with HAM directly. Of course using the GPS unit in the future would require a transiever cable of "packet radio" if I am correct. So I will look into that in the future.

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The GPS requires something to do the decoding; I've done it on my laptop (using free software), I've also done it with a PicPac. Or, you can buy a handheld with a built-in TNC.

My main motivation was to get on the air and do it on the cheap. Thats why I looked into handheld scanners (the same type used for NASCAR race monitoring), if I had realy looked hard I may have found a used unit for much less than the new price of $79.

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Definitely. Even with what I'm using, I'm still way under anything else on the market, price-wise. You are, even more so.

$95 for the beeline transmitter kit and $14 for the licence to use it. I think I may been able to do it cheaper if I wasn't so impatient and I challenge anyone to put together a less expensive package, as I think it can be done.

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It won't be that much cheaper; a friend makes his own transmitters, and by the time he's done, he has somewhere close to $30 invested in materials. That's for something comparable to what Greg is selling for $59 (just the transmitter).

-Kevin

I have both, Big Red Bee, and Beeline GPS.

the Beeline GPS will record position data, you can download it later and make a KML file for Google Earth.

attached is a screenshot of the flight track of my Pershing II on Sunday. yes it weathercocked a little

one of the hams at the launch was happy to use his APRS rig to get the in-flight GPS data. it wasn't really a big deal as the rocket only went 2000' and never out of sight.

Troj, I see that you use the 7 element Arrow Yagi. By any chance did you use the 3 element Arrow prior to the 7. If so I'm curious on how much better the 7 was?

I made a beacon from a Radio- Metrix transmitter and found it important to get a final fix before touchdown because I would loose the signal after touchdown until I got alot closer. I was wondering if you have had similar results and if the 7 element was superior in that you could still detect the signal after touchdown without having to get closer?

Ive range tested my transmitter several times and its fine if I keep it a couple feet above ground but once its lying on the ground the signal really diminishes.

By the way the transmit freq is 433.92
Uncrichie.

Originally posted by uncrichie
Troj, I see that you use the 7 element Arrow Yagi. By any chance did you use the 3 element Arrow prior to the 7. If so I'm curious on how much better the 7 was?

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I've never owned (or used) the 3 element.

The friend whose rocket it is was standing right next to me with his home-built 6 element. I had to give him the direct bearing based on my Yagi, for him to get a signal.

After we moved closer, he couldn't get a signal at all (rocket was on the other side of a hill), but mine was still getting a strong one.

-Kevin

Thanks Kevin, I may order the 7 element and see what happens. I made a 6 or 7 element at one time but never had much luck. The boom was pvc rather than wood which the article said to use, that may have been the problem? Thanks, Uncrichie.

Don't buy the 3 element Arrow. I bought it and it wasn't very directional. I found it very difficult to use and returned it.

I ended up building the 6 element antenna linked to from the Big Red Bee web site. I've used it for many successful recoveries. The only issue I've had with it is that it's a little fragile and hard to pack. On the other hand, the 7 element Arrow collapses very nicely.

I bought one of Arrow's Fox Hunt Loops that I'm going to try out this year. It doesn't have the gain of the Yagi but it's hard to beat its ruggedness and small size.

BTW, both Big Red Bee and Arrow have terrific customer service. I highly recommend both.

-- Jim

JC, whats the longest distance you were able to track with the beacon lying on the ground, with the 6 element wood beam antenna?

I built this same antenna but used 1/2" pvc instead of the wood beam which I think adversley affected the tuning or range because it was terrible, thats when I went for the 3 ele. arrow.

Fortunately or unfortunately I did purchase the 3 element arrow several years ago. I have used it but like I mentioned earlier once the beacon landed on the ground the signal disappeared until you got fairly close. The fortunate part to this is I just visited Arrows web-site and they have all parts available. I can buy the additional elements and the longer boom for $30 however the owner said it might be better to buy the whole new 7 element because there have been some slight design changes?

They do offer two models of the 7 element, one that collapes and one that doesn't, the difference in price is insignificant. I don't know if I should try to rebuild the pvc one onto a wood boom or buy additional parts from arrow to modify the 3 ele to 7 ele or just buy the complete arrow 7 element? Decisions decisions. uncrichie.

Originally posted by uncrichie
I built this same antenna but used 1/2" pvc instead of the wood beam which I think adversley affected the tuning or range because it was terrible, thats when I went for the 3 ele. arrow.

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I don't think it's a difference of PVC versus wood, per se. The key is whether or not your elements are aligned, properly spaced, proper length, etc.

My friend's 6 element is also made of PVC; he recently made some changes to it, which has reduced its effectiveness. The original incarnation worked much better than the current, so he's planning to disassemble it and try to figure out where he went wrong.

-Kevin

Kevin, I'm going to pull the pvc antenna out and remeasure everything. Maybe I did make a mistake? Then try it again. I know all elements are on the same plane and 90 degrees to the boom however length of ele and spacing might be off. I'll post when I check it out. Uncrichie.

uncrichie, what kinda distances on the ground are you getting w/ the radio-metrix?

Hi BRB, with the beacon antenna on the ground (beacon in nose-cone and antenna trailing out laying on the ground), with the 3 element arrow antenna about 4'-5' above ground , no attenuation, Radio Shack HTX-404 handheld about 200 yards maximum. With everything the same and the beacon a foot or two above ground 1/4 mile. With the beacon 6'-10' above ground 1/2-1 mile depending on terrain/topography. I'm hoping more elements on the antenna will help me for those times the nose-cone is flat on the ground? Beacon is the 5 volt model of the Radio Metrix TX-2 about 6 years old. I run it on 4.8v nicad. Uncrichie.

If I'm correct, that TX puts out about 10 mw.

The distances you quote seem reasonable except for the on-the-ground ones -- 200 yards seems really low. Hopfully a different antenna will help.

I'm not familiar with your receiver, but another possiblility is that it's not as sensitive as some of the ham radio transceivers that I am used to using . Any chance you could do a side-by side comparising between your radio shack and another (more expensive) transceiver?

-- Greg

Hi Greg, thanks for the response. First off I'd like to apologise for monopolizing the thread. I hope I didn't hi-jack it, I think its producing useful information relavent to all. The receiver is a 440 Icom clone that was produced for radio Shack about 8-10 years ago. Its about average as far as quality. I have another Alinco Radio that I could try and see if it makes any difference. I'm going to go 7 elements whether I buy a new Arrow or update the 3 element Arrow with Arrow parts. If that doesn't do it I'll be in contact with you to place an order for one of your transmitters. I believe your right on the 10 mw's. The antenna is coaxial dipole style cut at standard length which could probably be improved on by some tuning/pruning. Its being driven by a mix of circuits mostly from the original "Petes design" using a PIC for keying, and ID. It was a fun project but nowhere near as small as yours and probably lacking in power output? uncrichie.

The title of this thread is "HAM license radio tracking thread?" I think you're right on track!

It could be a lot of things. Difficult to say w/ out an apples to apples comparison

If you choose to try out my transmitter, and aren't happy with it's performance, feel free to return it w/in 30 days or so.

-- Greg

Good thread!

I just wanted to share that I just got back from passing my general (element 3) exam!

Congrats Adam, go for your extra. PM sent. Uncrichie.

Adam, congratulations!!!

I really must study and take the general test. you got the new question pool, what did you study from?

I got the ARRL's Genaral Q & A book. it has all of the questions in the pool with the correct answers AND a paragraph explaining why it is the right answer. I just read thru it once. still the 2004 question pool.

I took the test online a few months ago, before I got the book or had done any studying, and only missed passing by 1 question, most of it is common sense.

I don't understand why they won't tell you how you did on the test, how are you supposed to learn anything?


73,

Hey Adam, good job getting general. For those of you getting started try https://www.qrz.com/p/testing.pl for the practice tests. Make sure you practice all 12 tests separtely instead of selecting random. If you are new to amature radio like me just practicing these tests will assure you a first time pass as the test pool is derived from all these 12 tests and their questions.

On another note, I started this thread out of boredome waiting for my beeline order, at the time I had passed my test and was waiting for my call sign and license so I could even order my transmitter. I have since then recieved my license and my transmitter and am very pleased to be a HAM now as well as the proude recipiant of the beeline kit. I must say that Greg has provided the most outstanding and rewarding consumer service that I have experianced involved with this hobby. He had my order at my door much sooner than I thought possible and now that I have the transmitter kit in hand I am compelled to say that this is a very fine piece of equipment. $100 on the nose with shipping and free software that is very user friendly. Do yourself a favor, get your license and invest in the beeline, you can not do this even on you own dime and design for this amount of time and money.

I want to thank you all for feeding this thread as I have found it to be very informative, especialy about the yagi info. I built mine from the design on the beeline site. I have tested it out to about two miles from my appartment complex with good results in a very urban but flat landscape. My problem so far is with conditions within 1/2-1/8 mi. I loose all direction sence within that distance.

I just wanted to say that I've been following the antenna talk with interest as well - lots of useful stuff there. Thanks for posting it.

Congratulations on the General, Adam.

Originally posted by gonogo
I want to thank you all for feeding this thread as I have found it to be very informative, especialy about the yagi info. I built mine from the design on the beeline site. I have tested it out to about two miles from my appartment complex with good results in a very urban but flat landscape. My problem so far is with conditions within 1/2-1/8 mi. I loose all direction sence within that distance.

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You need an offset attenuator.

https://www.arrowantenna.com for example, offers one.

-Kevin

Yep, get an attenuator. I can get directionality down to a few feet with mine (purchased from Arrow Ant.). It really helps to be able to 'detune' the receiver to a nearby transmitter and avoid overwhelming the receiver. Try one - you'll be convinced immediately.

Offset attenuators are awesome, but not necessary. Instead, you can just tune your radio off frequency until you can just barely hear the transmitter as you get closer. It does take some practice, but it does work.

However, the first time I saw an offset attenuator in use, I was simply amazed. You can be 3 feet from the transmitter and still get excellent directionality. If you gotta hunt rockets in a waist high field of crops or something, this is the way to go!

-- Greg (gotta get me one of those)

(This is in response to Greg's talk of attenuators above. SOmehow I messed up the 'Quote' function.)

Agreed. My transceiver is just a bit too much of a PITA to tune that I find the attenuator much easier to use. I just have to remember NOT to transmit through the attenuator or "Damage May Result." Fortunately I can lockout the transmit function.

The Beeline is probably the most appropriately named device I own....