Wildman Rocketry Giveaway!


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  1. #1

    wadding substitute

    I know most folks like to save a few $$ when they can. In searching wadding, I have read that dog barf is a good substitute to comercial wadding. Do you just place the wadding in the bt, or place a sheet of regular wadding in first?

    Also I've read that you can use flame retardant spray (from fabric shop) on toilet paper.

    How do these work? Are there other alternatives?

    Thanks,
    Dave


  2. #2
    go for the dog barf. I've been flying low and mid power birds with the bale i bought 3 years ago, and havent even made a dent in it. my mid power birds are all 3 and 4" birds and i use one sheet of estes wadding to cover the engine. not sure why, just do. anyway.. a 2 gallon ziplock bag full of the cellulose is enough for 2-3 launches for me.

    I like the cellulose because it is already flame retardant and the entire bale cost me less than 10 bucks. with the dog barf, you can pack it loosely in the tube and then tamp it a teensy bit to make sure there are no gaps in it.

    the other waddings all have far more cons than the dog barf and are eventually more expensive than the bale of cellulose insulation.

    I've given away probably 3 or 4 gallon ziplock bags of the barf to other fliers to try, and there is still more than 3/4 of the bale left after 3 years.

    later
    Jerryb


  3. Dog barf is the way to go. I never use anything but it.

    An $8 bale of dog barf will last you 2 lifetimes.

    The only problem is where to keep the bale.

  4. #4
    Originally posted by mwiggins367
    The only problem is where to keep the bale.
    I don't know, just going out on a limb here, not sure if I'm the only one and all, but how about in the attic with the 50 others?

  5. #5
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    Is dog barf biodegradable? I've been using nomex pads, and just starting to look into baffles. I'd be happy to try dog barf but my town relies a lot on ecotourism and everyone is fairly conscientious about litter. Spraying stuff out of a rocket at altitude isn't like to win me any friends.
    Matthew Small

    Lucky I like long walks in the countryside.

    http://australianrocketry.org/

  6. "I don't know, just going out on a limb here, not sure if I'm the only one and all, but how about in the attic with the 50 others?"


    Everyone is a comedian!


    Going into my attic is pretty dangerous. I try to avoid it.

  7. #7
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    Do you just place the wadding in the bt, or place a sheet of regular wadding in first?

    I put a sheet in first, it helps keep pressure from blowing thru the the barf rather than against it. I've had that happen a few times that speckled the chute
    Andy

  8. #8
    Okay...so, "dog barf" is the offical rocketry term for this cellulose insulation at your home improvement center?

    What is the exact name of the product?

    Can I go into my local Home Depot and ask for "the dog barf insulation" and they'll know what I'm talking about?

    And, can you use dog barf ONLY in a rocket? Or do you need to combine it with a wad or two?

    lol

    cracking myself up..... "dog barf" who woulda thunk it....?

    K

  9. #9
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    it's cellulose insulation ( the blow in type)
    Andy

  10. #10
    Thanks for the responses. So I don't need to put any wadding in the tube before the dog barf? I'm building entry level rockets, 1" to 1.7" tubes, with max c6-5 motors.

  11. #11
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    I would put a sheet in before dog barf. Maybe a sheet or two for bt-70 or bt-80. The reason for this is because the sheet acts as a piston, blocking the gasses from going through the dog barf. It also blocks some large and hot particles.
    Josh

  12. #12
    the dog barf i have is shredded newsprint. I am sure that it biodegrades just fine. we have been flying on the same field for years, and i've not seen piles of it building up on the field. Even if you do, once the field gets a rain, or mown, any trace of the leftover dogbarf is gone. I have picked up large chunks from my bigger rockets and reused it on the same launch day though but the ejection charge usually scatters the barf to the winds.... literally...

    later
    Jerryb


    Originally posted by matthew
    Is dog barf biodegradable? I've been using nomex pads, and just starting to look into baffles. I'd be happy to try dog barf but my town relies a lot on ecotourism and everyone is fairly conscientious about litter. Spraying stuff out of a rocket at altitude isn't like to win me any friends.

  13. #13
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    Cocoon brand cellulose insulation.

    I described how to use it many times in this forum and very recently on the Estes forum (where it has been quoted repeatedly by happy readers who love my simple and clear description and who are unhappy with the Estes instructions).

    http://www.estesrockets.com/forums/i...2.html#msg2232

    Originally posted by Karl Rocket
    Okay...so, "dog barf" is the offical rocketry term for this cellulose insulation at your home improvement center?

    What is the exact name of the product?

    Can I go into my local Home Depot and ask for "the dog barf insulation" and they'll know what I'm talking about?

    And, can you use dog barf ONLY in a rocket? Or do you need to combine it with a wad or two?

    lol

    cracking myself up..... "dog barf" who woulda thunk it....?

    K

  14. #14
    Thank you, Fred for this info.... and your continued patience with newbies like me. I'll make better use of the search function

    Cheers!

    Karl

  15. #15
    Originally posted by shreadvector (where it has been quoted repeatedly by happy readers who love my simple and clear description and who are unhappy with the Estes instructions).
    Yes... I am indeed VERY happy with your instructions as it's looking like it's going to make a significant difference for the better in mine and my son's joy:disappointment ratio... and yes... I am VERY disappointed that Estes doesn't seem to think that adding some detail to their instructions and thereby saving MANY future newbies a negative experience and impression is a worthwhile issue. That's just backwards business if you ask me.

    Thanks again Fred, we will send one up in your honor! Heck... we'll send a couple.

    Fred's Awesome Wadding Packing Advice!

    WADDING: no matter what type or brand you use, you will only know you have the correct amount when you blow it down like a blow-gun. It will go THUNK against the motor mount and form a good gas seal. If you can continue to blow and get airflow through or around the wadding, then you have not installed enough and you do not have a good gas seal. if your wadding does not move at all, then you packed way too much or it's too dense and has formed a hard "plug' instead of a movable "piston".

    Rule of thumb: fill a length of body tube equal to 2 to 3 times the diameter with fluffy wadding, then blow it down. obviously the motor cannot be installed if you expect to blow the wadding in....

  16. #16
    Join Date
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    Originally posted by Karl Rocket
    Okay...so, "dog barf" is the offical rocketry term for this cellulose insulation at your home improvement center?

    What is the exact name of the product?

    Can I go into my local Home Depot and ask for "the dog barf insulation" and they'll know what I'm talking about?

    And, can you use dog barf ONLY in a rocket? Or do you need to combine it with a wad or two?

    lol

    cracking myself up..... "dog barf" who woulda thunk it....?

    K
    Like Stymye I put a single sheet against the motor and pile the DB in on top a couple inches.
    I just bought a new bail at Lowes for 9.89 Which will i'm sure last me another 10 years or so LOL. maybe longer
    The stuff I picked up is called Cocoon cellulose Blow-in attic insulation. R-19, R-25 ,R-30 thickness ratings on the cover.

    Edit:
    While the exact wording may be a bit different, I seem to recall reading" the blowgun thunk" method of wadding installation about 30 years ago in the Handbook of Model rocketry, Not sure if it's still there but Did think that method was common knowledge Humm guess we'll have to start spreading the word again LOL.
    Keep em Flyin Micronzied
    John
    Mrcluster/Micromeister
    Nar-15731
    Co-moderator MicroMaxRockets yahoo group.
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MicroMaxRockets/
    Narhams Section 139 - ROMCC

  17. #17
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    I use party streamers, paper treated with fire retardant. It can be found for $.25 a roll at $.99 stores ect. It comes in various colors and works best in larger tubes (bt60+) as it is thicker than Estes wadding.

  18. #18
    I wanna immensely thank everyone here for turning me on to "dog barf". I actually bought a pack of wadding at Hobby Lobby a month or so ago and after reading about dog barf I just wanted to kick myself LOL.

    I just stuff mine in the tube and tamp it down a little bit. No wadding at all and I haven't had a problem yet.

    HOWEVER don't do like I did and try to blow the left over wadding out of the rocket. You'll inadvertently inhale some of it and trust me you will be sick sick SICK.

  19. #19
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    Regarding the environmental aspects of dog barf vs paper wadding, our local launch site here is very environmentally sensitive, being an island in the middle of Mission Bay. As such, we can only use dog barf, and not the wadding since the dog barf breaks down very quickly, but the paper lingers for months/years.

    If you want to go for REALLY environmentally friendly, there are some on here who have used fresh grass (make sure it's still very green and not dried out) and even lettuce leaves purchased on the way to the launch site.

    WW
    NAR L2/#84763 - DART #317

  20. #20
    Originally posted by wwattles
    there are some on here who have used fresh grass (make sure it's still very green and not dried out) and even lettuce leaves purchased on the way to the launch site.

    WW
    That would be one seriously tossed salad.
    <cough>

    I noticed someone on the ole eBay selling small bags of barf.

    Okay.... I gotta ask: who christened this stuff as "dog barf?"

    I'm laughing at every post in this thread. You all talking about "dog barf" as if it where the best thing since sliced bread.

  21. #21
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    Originally posted by Karl Rocket
    I'm laughing at every post in this thread. You all talking about "dog barf" as if it where the best thing since sliced bread.
    Sliced bread doesn't do as well in rockets because it can leave a gummy residue inside the tube.

    WW
    NAR L2/#84763 - DART #317

  22. #22
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    Originally posted by Karl Rocket
    I noticed someone on the ole eBay selling small bags of barf.
    That's how I got mine. I bought two big Ziplock bags of the stuff on eBay for $5 or so a couple of years ago.

    Now, I don't fly a lot, but, in 3 years, I've used up maybe 1/4 of one of the bags. I don't think I'll be in the market again for a while.

    Like several others here, I usually put in a single sheet of wadding before the barf, to help make a good seal.

  23. #23
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    Originally posted by wwattles
    Sliced bread doesn't do as well in rockets because it can leave a gummy residue inside the tube.
    But it's a good way to make croutons.

    "Say, honey, these are interesting croutons. What flavor are they? Garlic parmesan?"

    "No, sweetie...black powder."


  24. #24
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    I'm sure a usenet search using google can locate early references to the term on news:rec.models.rockets

    Many items in engineering have animal terms (like some of the adhesives and sealants). In this case, it looks (to some) like what their dog would have barfed up after eating grass. I don't find it looks like any dog barf that I've encountered, so i call it cellulose insulation (and even use the Cocoon brand name).

    Originally posted by Karl Rocket
    That would be one seriously tossed salad.
    <cough>

    I noticed someone on the ole eBay selling small bags of barf.

    Okay.... I gotta ask: who christened this stuff as "dog barf?"

    I'm laughing at every post in this thread. You all talking about "dog barf" as if it where the best thing since sliced bread.

  25. #25
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    Originally posted by shreadvector
    In this case, it looks (to some) like what their dog would have barfed up after eating grass.
    I saw somewhere on r.m.r that when it is on the the ground and it gets wet, it looks like dog barf

  26. #26
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  27. #27
    Okay.... I'm gonna make a run of tshirst with a nice rocket logo but on the back says "I Love Dog Barf"



    Karl

  28. #28
    How Much for an XL. How about put TRF on there somewhere so we can identify fellow TRF folks at launches.

  29. #29
    Join Date
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    Originally posted by Karl Rocket
    Okay.... I'm gonna make a run of tshirst with a nice rocket logo but on the back says "I Love Dog Barf"



    Karl
    How 'bout
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  30. #30
    Originally posted by matthew
    Is dog barf biodegradable? I've been using nomex pads, and just starting to look into baffles. I'd be happy to try dog barf but my town relies a lot on ecotourism and everyone is fairly conscientious about litter. Spraying stuff out of a rocket at altitude isn't like to win me any friends.
    It's made of cellulose and is used here on SOD farm fields whereas they ban fiberglass because of the lack of decomposition. So while I cannot say for sure - I think it does decompose.


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