Ejecting objects from my rocket's payload section?

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lizanneyoung

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In September, I joined the rocket project in my local 4-H club. I chose my rocket because my leader said that I would be able to eject an object from the payload section. I purchased my rocket from Estes, the Payloader II.
https://www.estesrockets.com/003022-payloader-iitm
My question is how would I eject an object from the payload section. I just want to eject something like confetti or glitter, and the instructions are showing that everything is glued together at the top, so nothing can come out of the payload section. Is there any way I can modify the instructions to have something eject from the payload section?
Thanks for the help!
 
Objects placed in a payload section are typically meant to stay there for the entire flight. One end of the payload section should be removable so that you can get the payload in and out.

An alternative to the payload bay holding your "cargo" is to put it in with the parachute. However, make sure you are allowed to eject your "cargo". I think most locations would not appreciate confetti or glitter littering their grounds. An alternative is to use carpenter's chalk wrapped in some recovery wadding. When ejected with the parachute it makes a visible cloud that disperses before it gets to the ground. It won't be as dramatic as glitter, but you won't be picking it up for an hour or two either.
 
As an alternative to Confetti and glitter, what about parachute men?
ParaMen.jpg
You can pick these guys up pretty cheap & you can re-use them (well, the ones you find!)

They will need to go in on top of the parachute like Zeus-Cat said :)

Krusty
 
Seconded, an Army of little parachute men is pretty cool. There's a member of my club that consistently does this... It's cool every time. Someday I'll send up 30-40 in a HPR rocket.... THE FIELD IS BEING INVADED!!! :cool:

Just make sure they don't get tangled with your rockets parachute. Seen that happen too.
 
With the chute is the way to go, as suggested wrapped in wadding with some talc for lubrication if it's a solid object, in which case you have to consider how it will return to Earth itself.
 
Another vote for wrapping something in recovery wadding and putting it in the main body of the rocket along with the parachute, though I've usually put my "passengers" in straight after the rocket's own wadding, i.e. before the parachute, so they are in the rocket below the 'chute. I've never tried small soldiers but I have sent up and successfully recovered various individual small toys, including a teddy bear which is a veteran of at least 5 flights.

Another idea which I remember reading on this forum some time ago was where someone attached streamers to several small sweets and ejected those. Children then had the job of looking for the sweets, which they got to eat.
 
Thanks everyone! I think I will try the parachute men. The grounds I'm going to be shooting at doesn't really care as much about the glitter and confetti, but I think it will be harder to put those with the parachute.
 
lizanneyoung said:
In September, I joined the rocket project in my local 4-H club. I chose my rocket because my leader said that I would be able to eject an object from the payload section. I purchased my rocket from Estes, the Payloader II.
https://www.estesrockets.com/003022-payloader-iitm
My question is how would I eject an object from the payload section.
Click to expand...
Lizanneyoung,

It's actually very easy to have something eject from the payload section, instead of from inside the rocket itself (where the hot ejection gasses might melt whatever it is you want to eject).

1. At the bottom part of the payload section, glue the transition piece into the bottom of the payload section. This will make the payload tube and its bottom one solid piece that won't pull apart at ejection. You will attach this to the rocket's shock cord just like in the instructions. When the ejection charge blows, it will shoot the payload section off the rocket letting the parachute or streamer come out from inside the rocket (underneath your payload section), just like in the instructions.

2. Now this is where you do a really simple little trick to make whatever you put in the payload tube come out at ejection. The nosecone that fits in the top of the payload section itself needs to have its shoulder (the part that slips inside the payload section) sanded a bit so the nosecone is real loose inside the payload section. You don't want it so loose it is flopping around but loose enough that if you put the nosecone on the payload section and turn it upside down, the nosecone slips right off. It shouldn't take very much sanding to make the nosecone loose enough.

Now, whatever you put in the payload section, and the nosecone, will just go flying out when the payload section ejects. Very simple.

But wait, you don't want to lose your nosecone after just one flight. So you can do another really simple trick to not lose the nosecone. Get a piece of string about one foot long. Drill two little holes through the side of your nosecone (above the part that slips into the payload tube), slip your string through the holes and tie it together so it can't pull loose from the nosecone. Now drill two holes through your payload section right near the bottom. Slip the loose end of your string through those holes and tie that end together. This string will sit outside the rocket when you launch it. When you turn your payload section upside down the string should be long enough that the nosecone slips off (but doesn't get lost) but not so long that when the rocket is upright and launched that it will flop underneath the rocket and get burned.

Now, when you put something in the payload section and launch it, it will pop out when the payload section ejects. Just remember that anything you put in there will come flying out, so don't put anything you really like in there because you will probably lose it. Your idea of using confetti is really a cool idea and it doesn't weigh too much so it won't overload your rocket. But if you decide you want to use the same rocket to launch something you want to keep in the payload section, just put some pieces of tape over the joint where the nosecone and payload section meet.

I used this same technique on a much bigger rocket I built to launch full size Barbies on their own parachutes (pictures below). It's huge fun and I've launched it a number of times at national rocket meets. I've actually launched it for Mr. and Mrs. Estes a couple of times and Mrs. Estes, in particular, really gets a kick out of it.

Have lots of fun with your rocket and, if you get a chance, post a few pictures here of how it turns out.

Steve

BarbieChucker.jpg

Barbie1.jpg

BarbieChute.jpg
 
Gus said:
I used this same technique on a much bigger rocket I built to launch full size Barbies on their own parachutes (pictures below). It's huge fun and I've launched it a number of times at national rocket meets. I've actually launched it for Mr. and Mrs. Estes a couple of times and Mrs. Estes, in particular, really gets a kick out of it.

Have lots of fun with your rocket and, if you get a chance, post a few pictures here of how it turns out.

Steve
Click to expand...

:clap:

:grin:
 
Gus said:
Lizanneyoung,

It's actually very easy to have something eject from the payload section, instead of from inside the rocket itself (where the hot ejection gasses might melt whatever it is you want to eject).

1. At the bottom part of the payload section, glue the transition piece into the bottom of the payload section. This will make the payload tube and its bottom one solid piece that won't pull apart at ejection. You will attach this to the rocket's shock cord just like in the instructions. When the ejection charge blows, it will shoot the payload section off the rocket letting the parachute or streamer come out from inside the rocket (underneath your payload section), just like in the instructions.

2. Now this is where you do a really simple little trick to make whatever you put in the payload tube come out at ejection. The nosecone that fits in the top of the payload section itself needs to have its shoulder (the part that slips inside the payload section) sanded a bit so the nosecone is real loose inside the payload section. You don't want it so loose it is flopping around but loose enough that if you put the nosecone on the payload section and turn it upside down, the nosecone slips right off. It shouldn't take very much sanding to make the nosecone loose enough.

Now, whatever you put in the payload section, and the nosecone, will just go flying out when the payload section ejects. Very simple.

But wait, you don't want to lose your nosecone after just one flight. So you can do another really simple trick to not lose the nosecone. Get a piece of string about one foot long. Drill two little holes through the side of your nosecone (above the part that slips into the payload tube), slip your string through the holes and tie it together so it can't pull loose from the nosecone. Now drill two holes through your payload section right near the bottom. Slip the loose end of your string through those holes and tie that end together. This string will sit outside the rocket when you launch it. When you turn your payload section upside down the string should be long enough that the nosecone slips off (but doesn't get lost) but not so long that when the rocket is upright and launched that it will flop underneath the rocket and get burned.

Now, when you put something in the payload section and launch it, it will pop out when the payload section ejects. Just remember that anything you put in there will come flying out, so don't put anything you really like in there because you will probably lose it. Your idea of using confetti is really a cool idea and it doesn't weigh too much so it won't overload your rocket. But if you decide you want to use the same rocket to launch something you want to keep in the payload section, just put some pieces of tape over the joint where the nosecone and payload section meet.

I used this same technique on a much bigger rocket I built to launch full size Barbies on their own parachutes (pictures below). It's huge fun and I've launched it a number of times at national rocket meets. I've actually launched it for Mr. and Mrs. Estes a couple of times and Mrs. Estes, in particular, really gets a kick out of it.

Have lots of fun with your rocket and, if you get a chance, post a few pictures here of how it turns out.

Steve
Click to expand...

Thanks Steve! I will try that out and post pictures of my finished rocket.
 
In 1970, a couple of us from our NAR Section, Apollo-NASA in Houston, were allowed to launch a modified big Centuri Little Joe II. The reason this was chosen is that it's main body was approximately a BT-100 or something close to that, and we could make it to fly on an Estes "D" motor, and we still had a couple left over from flying the Saturn V inside the Astrodome on national TV, New Years Eve. (It physically could not go higher than 208', and those motors would take the Saturn V to 190') For the first home game of the season of the Houston Astros baseball team, we launched this modified Little Joe, (without the escape tower) from the pitchers mound with a baseball in it. It went up and arched over towards center field where the center fielder was waiting to catch the ball, which he did. It was a little different and certainly unique. If you are going to eject something when the ejection charge goes off, make sure it is unique so people will remember it! BEAR
 
Personally, I wouldn't recommend ejecting glitter... the stuff is actually, depending on the source, either bits of metal foil or bits of metalized mylar... neither is biodegradeable in the short term (though the small particle size means its far easier to get "lost" into the soil surface when it hits the ground) and will be laying around wherever it lands for a LONG time, even if it's not sticking out like a sore thumb... the other issue is, it WILL be raining down somewhere... and if it were to land in someone's eyes while they were looking up, say watching another launch or the recovery, it could be a nasty hazard...

Confetti, so long as it's fairly small PAPER particles, I'd say "go for it"... paper breaks down quickly in the environment, and wouldn't be much of a hazard if it got in anybody's eyes... in fact we rocketeers often use a very similar recovery wadding substitute which is basically gray confetti-- "Dog barf" or cellulose blow-in insulation... it's flameproof-chemical treated shredded bits of newspaper and other recycled paper... works great, it's cheap, and basically when its ejected, it becomes confetti... Note I'm not recommending the use of actual paper confetti for a wadding replacement, unless said confetti is properly treated with borates to be fire-retardant or "flameproof"... if it is, then go for it!

Just some thoughts to consider...

Later! OL JR :)
 
Gus said:
2. Now this is where you do a really simple little trick to make whatever you put in the payload tube come out at ejection. The nosecone that fits in the top of the payload section itself needs to have its shoulder (the part that slips inside the payload section) sanded a bit so the nosecone is real loose inside the payload section. You don't want it so loose it is flopping around but loose enough that if you put the nosecone on the payload section and turn it upside down, the nosecone slips right off. It shouldn't take very much sanding to make the nosecone loose enough.

Now, whatever you put in the payload section, and the nosecone, will just go flying out when the payload section ejects. Very simple.
Click to expand...
How do you prevent the nosecone and payload from flying off right after thrust burnout? The rocket decelerates due to drag, the heavier nosecone keeps going, and the payload is deployed somewhat sooner than intended. I haven't seen this happen with a detaching payload but I have seen it happen with a loose nosecone.
 
One cheap ejectable payload that a friend turned me onto was pennies. He'd tape pennies to varying lengths of plastic marking ribbon (the stuff you see attached to stakes in the ground for surveying or to keep people off of freshly poured concrete), then roll them up. He'd then load the rocket with recovery wadding, a few pennies, then the parachute. Upon ejection, the pennies would fall out, unroll, and you have these colorful streamers accompanying your rocket on its way down. The shorter lengths fall faster, the longer ones can sometimes keep up with the descending rocket.

It was a great way of (cheaply) keeping competitive small kids from running over your rocket (I had that happen once, He wanted to be the one who got the rocket, but the kid couldn't stop fast enough when it landed in front of him and stepped on the rocket... I was pissed).
 
K'Tesh said:
One cheap ejectable payload that a friend turned me onto was pennies. He'd tape pennies to varying lengths of plastic marking ribbon (the stuff you see attached to stakes in the ground for surveying or to keep people off of freshly poured concrete), then roll them up. He'd then load the rocket with recovery wadding, a few pennies, then the parachute. Upon ejection, the pennies would fall out, unroll, and you have these colorful streamers accompanying your rocket on its way down. The shorter lengths fall faster, the longer ones can sometimes keep up with the descending rocket.

It was a great way of (cheaply) keeping competitive small kids from running over your rocket (I had that happen once, He wanted to be the one who got the rocket, but the kid couldn't stop fast enough when it landed in front of him and stepped on the rocket... I was pissed).
Click to expand...

That's the basic method that was used to determine altitude at small events (that didn't have the equipment or manpower to deploy tracking theodolites for altitude determination) before the advent of the microelectronic altimeter. A uniform weight, like a penny, is ejected with a fixed size streamer attached, which of course descends at a predetermined rate (ignoring certain environmental effects differences, like temperature, air pressure, air density, turbulence, wind, etc) determined by test drops conducted beforehand. The streamer's descent was timed and thus determined the altitude from which it was dropped by dividing the descent time by the descent rate.

So long as the streamer was sited by the timers at ejection and landing, the altitude was fairly reasonably determined.

As for the kids, well, sometimes that happens. Don't know of anybody who DOESN'T get mad, either... a club launch setting usually enforces enough range discipline to prevent most such occurrences...

Later! OL JR :)
 
Gus said:
Lizanneyoung,

It's actually very easy to have something eject from the payload section, instead of from inside the rocket itself (where the hot ejection gasses might melt whatever it is you want to eject).

1. At the bottom part of the payload section, glue the transition piece into the bottom of the payload section. This will make the payload tube and its bottom one solid piece that won't pull apart at ejection. You will attach this to the rocket's shock cord just like in the instructions. When the ejection charge blows, it will shoot the payload section off the rocket letting the parachute or streamer come out from inside the rocket (underneath your payload section), just like in the instructions.

2. Now this is where you do a really simple little trick to make whatever you put in the payload tube come out at ejection. The nosecone that fits in the top of the payload section itself needs to have its shoulder (the part that slips inside the payload section) sanded a bit so the nosecone is real loose inside the payload section. You don't want it so loose it is flopping around but loose enough that if you put the nosecone on the payload section and turn it upside down, the nosecone slips right off. It shouldn't take very much sanding to make the nosecone loose enough.

Now, whatever you put in the payload section, and the nosecone, will just go flying out when the payload section ejects. Very simple.

But wait, you don't want to lose your nosecone after just one flight. So you can do another really simple trick to not lose the nosecone. Get a piece of string about one foot long. Drill two little holes through the side of your nosecone (above the part that slips into the payload tube), slip your string through the holes and tie it together so it can't pull loose from the nosecone. Now drill two holes through your payload section right near the bottom. Slip the loose end of your string through those holes and tie that end together. This string will sit outside the rocket when you launch it. When you turn your payload section upside down the string should be long enough that the nosecone slips off (but doesn't get lost) but not so long that when the rocket is upright and launched that it will flop underneath the rocket and get burned.

Now, when you put something in the payload section and launch it, it will pop out when the payload section ejects. Just remember that anything you put in there will come flying out, so don't put anything you really like in there because you will probably lose it. Your idea of using confetti is really a cool idea and it doesn't weigh too much so it won't overload your rocket. But if you decide you want to use the same rocket to launch something you want to keep in the payload section, just put some pieces of tape over the joint where the nosecone and payload section meet.

I used this same technique on a much bigger rocket I built to launch full size Barbies on their own parachutes (pictures below). It's huge fun and I've launched it a number of times at national rocket meets. I've actually launched it for Mr. and Mrs. Estes a couple of times and Mrs. Estes, in particular, really gets a kick out of it.

Have lots of fun with your rocket and, if you get a chance, post a few pictures here of how it turns out.

Steve
Click to expand...

So cool and clever!
 
shrox said:
So cool and clever!
Click to expand...
Doug,

Wow, thanks a lot! I have a huge admiration for all the cool and clever things you've brought to all of us over the years, so you're comment really means a lot.


But to be honest, the Barbie Chucker is always cool, but not always so clever, LOL. I built it to amuse my daughters and get them interested in rocketry. That was 7 years ago and it definitely worked (see the cover of last month's Sport Rocketry). At NARAM 49 my youngest and I launched it for Vern and Gleda for the first time and it was a huge hit. So we decided to launch it again that night, in the night launch, with glow sticks tied to little parachutes instead of launching Barbie. It was a really great idea but, unfortunately, I didn't have a scale and underestimated the weight of the glow sticks. The Barbie Chucker lifted off fine, then arced over at about 50 feet and was headed just a smidge below horizontal when it ejected the glow sticks. They followed a perfect trajectory for another 30 feet or so to come raining in on the outdoor toilets. :O Basically, we cluster-bombed the Port-O-Potties at our first NARAM! I was pretty surprised that they didn't revoke our NAR memberships for that.

We did redeem ourselves last summer, though, by launching Barbie again at NARAM, again for Vern and Gleda. This time Barbie was actually a hollow Barbie look-alike on a giant parachute actually meant to be a kite. Barbie flew to about 500 feet, ejected beautifully, then caught a thermal and glided slowly over the contest range. At that moment several of the nation's most experienced competition rocketeers were studiously trying to pick good air, as Barbie gracefully hovered right over their heads then thermaled away to points unknown (Ken's house?). Really, really a funny moment, appreciated a lot on the sport range.

So thanks again for the compliment. As you've proven time and again with your designs, you can have lots of fun in rocketry with very simple things.

Steve
 
Gus said:
They followed a perfect trajectory for another 30 feet or so to come raining in on the outdoor toilets. :O Basically, we cluster-bombed the Port-O-Potties at our first NARAM! I was pretty surprised that they didn't revoke our NAR memberships for that.
Click to expand...

Hey, when ya gotta go, ya gotta go... LOL:)

Reminds me of a launch I attended up at MacGregor, Texas a few years ago...

Guy goes to the porta-can, which we were set up our EZ-UP not far from... while he's in there, they launch a rocket that has a separation... it comes in ballistic and BAM! ricochets off the porta-crapper door! Sounded like it got hit with a sledgehammer... the guy comes out wide-eyed a minute later, looks down, and steps over what's left of the rocket as he departs the porta-crapper...

Later the guy goes back for a second time... he's sitting in the porta-can, and they're about to launch a rocket, giving the countdown, when suddenly from behind us in the distance we hear this low, LOUD, DEEP rumble... as we turn westward to see what's going on, we see this funny looking almost mini-mushroom shaped cloud going up, as the rumble and roar continues wending across the prairie... I mean, it's LOUD and can be felt as much as heard...

Just when one starts to think "oh my, a plane crashed or something" someone pipes up "SpaceX is testing a rocket engine at their MacGregor test stand!" Okay, now it makes sense... guess the guy in the porta can couldn't hear that though... he comes out a few seconds later still fixing his clothing and all white and wide-eyed, looking wildly off toward the west with the rest of us, definitely unnerved...

I had to laugh... it sounded like the soundtrack they play in movies of an atom bomb going off-- that long, low rumble that goes on and on in the distance... (in reality, a nuke going off is just a really big BANG! when the shock wave passes you and you finally hear it-- almost like a king-size rifle shot, or like that meteor impact video from Russia a month or so ago).

I know if *I* were facing nuclear Armageddon and the TEOTWAWKI, *I* wouldn't want to ride it out or meet my end in a porta-crapper!!! LOL:)

Later! OL JR :)
 
Steve,

Your Barbie chucker is awesome. If I show that to my daughters they will beg me to build one!

Thanks!
 

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