Anyone Build The Launch Pad Rocket ALARM?(Modified)

[TopRamen]

Everyone makes their own way through the hobby. That is as it should be.

I just don't believe, most of the time, these things go cruise missile by accident. People over build for what the designer meant and ignore the due diligence required to check the CP / CG relationship. Then bitch about how the rocket flies. Build it as you will. But if its a tail heavy lead sled that flies like junk, don't blame TLP. And I am not addressing this to the thread starter. I mean it's for those who have overbuilt a TLP rocket then complains about its flight characteristics.

This Kit is just Parts. TLPs instructions were deviated before I even had the Kit in Hand. I take full responsibility for the way this turns out. I would not be so Vain as to butcher a Kit, then blame the Manufacturer of said Kit because I did'nt follow the Instructions. I'm a BAR, I'm not new to this, and have done a couple successful Scratch Builts before, to include one that flew fine on G Motors.
That said, so far I love this Kit, and am happy with the quality of all of its Components. They're just not the way I want them. I will likely buy more TLP Kits to butcher as a matter of Fact. I agree with you, if someone does this and then complains, they are a Loser.
I intend to keep you all posted on this build, to include when I load the firs Motor and weigh it. I'll even find its CG, and you guys can help me balance her out. If I crash and burn, I'll be to blame. Not the folks I got the Parts from. In the meanwhile, I've learned some new Building Techniques.

 

[TopRamen]

Well, the PC Superpoxy seems to have set up pretty well. Meanwhile I recieved my MMT and Retainer from LOC. I read the instructions for the Aero Pack Retainer, and realized it will not fit the LOC Tube. I Emailed them, and I'll send it back. It is the only 24mm Aero Pack Retainer that LOC carries, so I assumed it would work. However, it is sized for Apogee and Estes MMTs. That's Okay, the MMT they sent me is Top Notch, and there is plenty to make multiple MMTs with. For this build, I will just go ahead and use my Estes 24mm Retainers, as they fit the LOC MMT. If LOC can't replace the Aero Pack, I may just keep it and reinforce an Estes Tube and make a MMT for a Scratch Build.



And rather than drive myself crazy trying to blend the Paper Cone where it meets the Plastic Cone perfectly, I will simply blend the Vertical Seam, but leave the Horizontal Seam and paint the Tip Silver. The slight surface discrepency will look more like a puposeful Detail.

 

[TopRamen]

From one of the Reviews of this Kit:

"The instructions are very good, but basic. Listed as a level 3 kit, many things are assumed, such as putting the launch lug in the right place and knowing what a cruciform is when laying out the fins. What this means is that you are free to use your own techniques as you go. You do get fin and transition templates."

Thanks Rich Holmes, for the Links to the Reviews. It helps justify to People why I'm "Overbuilding" and "Butchering!".

 

[TopRamen]

Striving for perfection on this Paper Cone thing. I've almost sanded away all of what's left of the Paper Cone, leaving behind my PC Superpoxy Molding. What a Cool Nose Cone.




My Angles oughta' be good? I did after all use my Drill Press as a Lathe to spin it down this far. I'm just gonna' let it sit for awhile, and ruminate on the final Details.

 

[Davidm]

And rather than drive myself crazy trying to blend the Paper Cone where it meets the Plastic Cone perfectly, I will simply blend the Vertical Seam, but leave the Horizontal Seam and paint the Tip Silver. The slight surface discrepency will look more like a puposeful Detail.[/QUOTE]



I covered it generously with Elmer’s Carpenters Wood Filler MAX and sanded, sanded, sanded. Then I covered it with plain Elmer’s Carpenters wood filler and sanded, sanded, and sanded. Came out perfect and rock hard. Was almost needle sharp until one landing nicked the paint off the point. The NC was the part of the build I was most proud of.

 

[TopRamen]

And rather than drive myself crazy trying to blend the Paper Cone where it meets the Plastic Cone perfectly, I will simply blend the Vertical Seam, but leave the Horizontal Seam and paint the Tip Silver. The slight surface discrepency will look more like a puposeful Detail.

I covered it generously with Elmer’s Carpenters Wood Filler MAX and sanded, sanded, sanded. Then I covered it with plain Elmer’s Carpenters wood filler and sanded, sanded, and sanded. Came out perfect and rock hard. Was almost needle sharp until one landing nicked the paint off the point. The NC was the part of the build I was most proud of.

View attachment 144811[/QUOTE]

Holy Effort! Very Nice!

 

[TopRamen]

Nevermind. I think what I was going to say, was that from now on, I might think about using a Paper Hat Epoxy Molding on more Rockets. I really like how it's turning out.

 

[TopRamen]

I finished the MMT/Exhaust Tube Assembly, and got to cutting my TTW Slots. Also installed my Rail Buttons. I was able to get the Flanged Nut all the way down into the Tube by putting some Duct Tape sticky side out around a flat Stick, then marking the Stick to let me know when I was lined up with the Hole I drilled. When I could see the Nut through the Hole, I stuck the Screw in and used it as levarage to pull the Nut into the hole. Was easier than it sounds.:

 

[TopRamen]

There! Done with the TTW Slots. I cut them with a X-acto Knife then sanded inside them a little to smooth out the high spots.:



Now I need to get some Fin Material,(Basswood). Sadly, I'm broke, so I can't say when that will happen.
I used the wrong mark for the rear Fin Slots, and made them a bit too long, but when I get to installing the Fins I'll fill the Slots where they need it.

 

[sodmeister]

Things are looking very good ,very good indeed !

Hey ,don`t worry ,I overbuild the snot out of these kits myself ,Basswood and no Balsa ,my own MMT tubes and plenty of epoxy.....:blush:

Then there`s all the detail crap I slap on ,so to say the least, things change a bit.

So I do check CP/CG relationships carefully ,and add lead shot fixed with polyurethane (moisture cure glue....Gorrila Glue)

I just launched my TLP MIM23 HAWK today for the first time.I had to add a good shot of lead in the nosecone (it`s modified heavily ,Kevlar SC ,aluminum motor retainer from Rocketarium ...looks like an Aeropack ,all Basswood fins.....and those are big fins ,epoxy coated nosecone extension & tailcone with aluminum liner made of soda can ,heavier and longer motor tube and a 24" Topflight thin mill nylon chute...and then the epoxy !)

Flew twice on AT/Estes E15-4s single use loads.

Nice and straight and plenty high enough.

I have 24mm CTI cases ,just need to burn off the single use motors,then stock up on CTI reloads for next year ,then have some real fun.

As a side note ,I built the Falcon AIM-4 kit the same heavy duty way and it also flew great on the same motors.It finally came to rest in a big `ole tress a few weeks ago ,and is still there as of today

That rocket had plenty of great flights on it too, but again ,CP/CG was altered for the changes made.

Here`a a pic of my Falcon....RIP

I`m building a new one right now !

Keep up the nice work and have fun !!


Paul T

 

[TopRamen]

Things are looking very good ,very good indeed !

Hey ,don`t worry ,I overbuild the snot out of these kits myself ,Basswood and no Balsa ,my own MMT tubes and plenty of epoxy.....:blush:

Then there`s all the detail crap I slap on ,so to say the least, things change a bit.

So I do check CP/CG relationships carefully ,and add lead shot fixed with polyurethane (moisture cure glue....Gorrila Glue)

I just launched my TLP MIM23 HAWK today for the first time.I had to add a good shot of lead in the nosecone (it`s modified heavily ,Kevlar SC ,aluminum motor retainer from Rocketarium ...looks like an Aeropack ,all Basswood fins.....and those are big fins ,epoxy coated nosecone extension & tailcone with aluminum liner made of soda can ,heavier and longer motor tube and a 24" Topflight thin mill nylon chute...and then the epoxy !)

Flew twice on AT/Estes E15-4s single use loads.

Nice and straight and plenty high enough.

I have 24mm CTI cases ,just need to burn off the single use motors,then stock up on CTI reloads for next year ,then have some real fun.

As a side note ,I built the Falcon AIM-4 kit the same heavy duty way and it also flew great on the same motors.It finally came to rest in a big `ole tress a few weeks ago ,and is still there as of today

That rocket had plenty of great flights on it too, but again ,CP/CG was altered for the changes made.

Here`a a pic of my Falcon....RIP

I`m building a new one right now !

Keep up the nice work and have fun !!


Paul T

Thanks Paul. That is one gorgeous Specimen you have created there. What a shame to have it be in a Tree. I'de be gettin' out my Chainsaw. As I've noted, I find your Work quite inspirational.
Tonight, while I was sanding some more on the Nose Cone, I stabbed my Thumb accidentally on the Tip. Decided to flaten it slightly. It did a number on my Thumb.

 

[sodmeister]

Thanks Paul. That is one gorgeous Specimen you have created there. What a shame to have it be in a Tree. I'de be gettin' out my Chainsaw. As I've noted, I find your Work quite inspirational.
Tonight, while I was sanding some more on the Nose Cone, I stabbed my Thumb accidentally on the Tip. Decided to flaten it slightly. It did a number on my Thumb.

That`s alright ,I tried to catch my Xacto knife with my foot one time.

That wasn`t very smart on my part ,just a stupid reaction !

I was tempeted to cut that bugger down ,and so was my brother today ,as his new PML Bullpup landed in a tree just 20 feet South of mine.

Thanks for the good words BTW.

Take care


Paul T

PS- I see you are using rail buttons.......smart man !!

 

[luke strawwalker]

Everyone makes their own way through the hobby. That is as it should be.

I just don't believe, most of the time, these things go cruise missile by accident. People over build for what the designer meant and ignore the due diligence required to check the CP / CG relationship. Then bitch about how the rocket flies. Build it as you will. But if its a tail heavy lead sled that flies like junk, don't blame TLP. And I am not addressing this to the thread starter. I mean it's for those who have overbuilt a TLP rocket then complains about its flight characteristics.

+1... You said it perfectly...

I've seen this time and again... Guys buy kit because they think it looks cool. Guy is disappointed because it's a big "toy rocket" with light Estes-style tubes, balsa fins, and requires them to build paper nosecones/transitions/tail cones. Guy decides to "build it like a "REAL" rocket" by swapping for thick-wall tubes, fiberglassing the things, plywood fins, bigger motor(s), etc... Guy ends up with a heavy anti-tank round that flies like utter crap, loops and attempts to part his hair, "cruise missiles" and ends up digging an expensive post hole... Guy then gripes to high heaven about what a "crappy kit" TLP made...

Usually this happens because someone buys the kit and doesn't find the LARGEST FLIPPIN' MOTOR that can possibly be fitted in the airframe on the recommended motors list. They find this "unacceptable" that a "mid-power" kit not be capable of using the most powerful motor that can possibly fit the airframe, so they start the overbuilding spiral that inevitably leads to something that bears only an outward similarity to the original kit as it was sold.

Oh well... happens time and again. Thanks for pointing that out, Jeff... while "beat it til it fits and paint it to match" and "slather on another layer of filler til it looks good" is pretty typical on HPR builds where they just grab a bigger motor to make up for the extra weight, such crude brute force methods aren't what you want to do with TLP kits... their balance points and stability is very sensitive, and they're very sensitive to weight gain in the build...

Later! OL JR

 

[TopRamen]

Man, that Nose Cone messed my Thumb up good. I used to be a Mechanic, so banging up my Hands seems to be second Nature to me. I sanded the Nose Tip down to a flat spot on the Tip. It will still look good, since I'm painting that section Silver.

 

[gdjsky01]

Cuts as long as not too bad are badges of honor. And yes, Paul is a master.

 

[sodmeister]

Cuts as long as not too bad are badges of honor. And yes, Paul is a master.

At what.....cutting myself ? LOL



Paul T

 

[gdjsky01]

+1... You said it perfectly...

Later! OL JR

I am going to enjoy any TLP build! The interesting thing is the nose cone is not what I expected given the photo the OP found. So please, KUTGW!

I just want to be clear. If a person understands what they are doing, more power to ya. It's just as many many know, we've seen people unhappy with their TLP purchase and I think a lot of the time, it's not TLPs fault.

I've heard when the original owner was on the boards back in the day, he took a lot of heat. And then gave up on online forums. And really, up until Rocketarium started coming out with some unique rounds, TLP was really one of the few giving us something 'more' than 3FNC.

Anyways like I said, I am enjoying your build because I enjoy most TLP builds!

 

[luke strawwalker]

I am going to enjoy any TLP build! The interesting thing is the nose cone is not what I expected given the photo the OP found. So please, KUTGW!

I just want to be clear. If a person understands what they are doing, more power to ya. It's just as many many know, we've seen people unhappy with their TLP purchase and I think a lot of the time, it's not TLPs fault.

I've heard when the original owner was on the boards back in the day, he took a lot of heat. And then gave up on online forums. And really, up until Rocketarium started coming out with some unique rounds, TLP was really one of the few giving us something 'more' than 3FNC.

Anyways like I said, I am enjoying your build because I enjoy most TLP builds!

Yes, what Jeff said...

Didn't want to come across as bashing this build-- but I too have seen a great many threads and a lot of bashing of TLP because their idea of "MPR" is more towards the model rocket end of the spectrum rather than the HPR end of the spectrum where a lot of folks seem to think it should be. Then they overbuild it and modify it without really knowing what they're doing and end up with something that doesn't work well, then blame the vendor rather than their own ineptitude...

This looks interesting and I'm looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

Later! OL JR

 

[TopRamen]

Like I've said before, I WILL NOT BLAME TLP if my Build comes out unstable. I will simply have to address the CG/CP Issue and make it stable. I even Changed the Title of this Thread to reflect the fact that this Kit is being "Modified". I will however, be buying more of their Kits to do as I please with. If this Build dose come out nice, I will probably buy another of the Same and build it with a 2x24mm, or a single 29mm.

 

[TopRamen]

Just picked up my 3/32" Basswood today at the Hobby Store, and ordered my Sunward Ejection Baffle and 18" Nylon Chute' from Apogee.
Also stopped by the Hardware Store to get me a Scew Eye and some Nuts for my Shock Cord.

 

[gdjsky01]

I have 24mm CTI cases ,just need to burn off the single use motors,then stock up on CTI reloads for next year ,then have some real fun.

Paul T

How's come we never get to read a launch report or sees pictures of these beauties flying??? Hmmmm? ;^)
:wink:
Or am I just missing them?

 

[TopRamen]

How's come we never get to read a launch report or sees pictures of these beauties flying??? Hmmmm? ;^)
:wink:
Or am I just missing them?

If I was Paul, and my Rockets looked as good as his do, I'de be afraid to fly them.

 

[Rich Holmes]

If I was Paul, and my Rockets looked as good as his do, I'de be afraid to fly them.

Here`a a pic of my Falcon....RIP

Apparently he did, and look what happened! :cry:

 

[TopRamen]

Apparently he did, and look what happened! :cry:

I know. I'de be going after it with my Husqvarna 445.

Trees be damned!!!

 

[sodmeister]

Apparently he did, and look what happened! :cry:

Indeed,indeed....a pitiful thing it is to see a grown man cry !! LOL

The Falcon was a great flyer on AT/Estes SU E15s ,until the tree incident ,but it had a bunch of great flights.I`m building another right now ,almost finished except for decals.

The MIM23 HAWK is another sweet flying machine ,again on E15s and once on an E30 (went pretty high on that load )

The Martel and Bullpup 12B both have a flight each on the same E15s ,almost lost the martel in tall grass ,took 2 hours to find it ,but i did.

The Gecko has flown once ,that was a very nice flight ,again E15

The Exocet flew this spring on E15, just once ,kind of arched over a bit ,so it needs a bit of nose weight.OH.....it almost landed in a bush ,missed it by 3 feet !

There`s really only 5 that have not flown ,but it`s more of a "time" thing ,as i have so many rockets to fly ,all Low-Mid and High power ,it`s a matter of getting out more often.

So there`s my TLP report ,so yes,I do fly them at least once.

I`m always surprised how well they fly ,cause you know I add a lot of crap to them and only really use epoxy and build them substitute Basswood ,and reinforce the cardstock with finishing epoxy, use my own motor tubes and use thin mill TopFlight chutes (to name a few) but I always end up adding nose weight.

Happy flying gang ,and sorry to hi jack your thread TopRamen !Hope you get that basswood and get back at it.

Hey Mr.Holmes ,you gonna built a TLP kit some day ? :wink:

Cheers

Paul T


.......see Jeff....I fly them ,just no pictures LOL

 

[TopRamen]

Got the first Set of Fins cut out and sanded. They're just stuck in their Slots as a Mock up for these Pics'.

 

[TopRamen]

It's a good thing I repaired my Bench Top Belt Sander recently, really made making the Fins all symetrical easy and was a lot quicker than doing it by Hand. That would have really sucked, as I have Arthritis and suffered an Injury to my Right Hand a few Years ago. I know have what is known as "Gamekeepers Thumb", do to a Mountainbike Accident. Anyhow, I like how they are coming along, and am even going to take the time to Paper them. There is the slightest bit of Warp to the Sheets I used, but I went through the whole Stock of it at the Hobby Store and these were the best available Sheet of Basswood in 3/32". When I paper them, the Act of placing them under Books to flatten and prevent warping should make them perfect. It is impercieveable to the average Eye, but the slightest warp would be too much for me to bear. If they are still not perfect after Papering, I'll have to get new Wood. I'll have to take a Weight Deficit and upgrade to "Lite Ply", and that would limit my selection of Motors I could safely Fly according to Rocksim. Granted, there are still variables that have yet to factor into the Final Weight, but we're likely looking at between 29-34oz. when complete without Motor.

 

[TopRamen]

I also re-designed the Rear Set of Fins. Rocksim said it was just fine.

 

[sodmeister]

Yessir ,things are comming together nicely ,very nice indeed !!

I was just thinking how many years ago ,when I got back into rocketry (2000) I pretty much started scratch building after getting a few estes kits under my belt.It`s when I saw an ad in a magazine for TLP kits I really got the missile/scale bug ,so I looked up TLP`s site and saw the ALARM.

Back then,not many vendors sold the kits,let alone here in Canada ,so I used a compass and a ruler and scaled the kit from the computer screen,along with the dimensions stated on the picture.

I used 2.6" phenolic tubing ,a nosecone I had on hand and 1/8" aircraft plywood for the forward fins and plastic styrene sheet for the aft fins......no TTW ,just surface mount and a PML urethene tail cone:y:

Well as per usual ,even back then,I built it like a TANK...lots of epoxy ,29mm phenolic motor tube ,1/8" plywood centering rings ,36" nylon TopFlight chute ,and swithed from 1/4" lug tubes to rail buttons etc. etc.

Didn`t have no Rocksim back then ,so I had to make an educated guess where the CP was ,and according to my "calculations" ,I needed a TON of nose weight :eyeroll:

Well that was 13 years ago ,and she still flies to this day ,but nothing less than Gs ...38s,35s,80s and various CTI reloads (G106 sparkies are sweet)

After that ,I made a 4" Hellfire and 3" AIM Falcon missile......using the computer and face cards as a starting point.

Ahhhhhhh..the good old days of scratch and guess rocketry


Here`s the old ALARM taking off a few weeks ago.Notice I painted it different and not the real colors....not sure why thought

Cheers


Paul T

 

[TopRamen]

Awesome! I like it when People mention the Fact that there were Scratch Builds before Rocksim. I mostly use Rocksim as an Excuse to justify my Building Techniques, since Folks are Quick to get Snippy when you go and Bash up or overbuild a Kit. Stability Nazis and the Like, or Loyalists that feel you are insulting the Brand.