Flis TRES "El Grande" style

[sodmeister]

Very, VERY nice! Inspirational, in fact!

Wow ,that is high praise ,thankyou.

It is a cool looking rocket and fun to build.I built the smaller,original version and love to fly it ( got to like those engine bulk packs) so when I saw this 24mm version ,I was sold.

Take care Marc


Paul T

 

[Marc_G]

What really grabs me about it is the smooth job of getting the motor mounts through the body tube , all nice and neat-like. I've been looking for some template creator that would let me:
-create templates for cutting holes in body tubes for this purpose (allowing smaller tubes to come through), and
-in other cases, cut the smaller tube to mount flush to the larger tube (without cutting the larger tube)

I have a couple of concept designs to try out. Anyway, do you have any tips for getting the "mounts through body tube" right?

 

[sodmeister]

What really grabs me about it is the smooth job of getting the motor mounts through the body tube , all nice and neat-like. I've been looking for some template creator that would let me:
-create templates for cutting holes in body tubes for this purpose (allowing smaller tubes to come through), and
-in other cases, cut the smaller tube to mount flush to the larger tube (without cutting the larger tube)

I have a couple of concept designs to try out. Anyway, do you have any tips for getting the "mounts through body tube" right?

No sir, I just read the directions LOL

But I had practice when i did the 18mm version ,I just took my time and used a brand new #11 Exacto blade (Excel actually, I buy them by the box of 100) ,and then as suggested by JimFlis ,I used a dowel with 220 grit wrapped around it (he suggests a used 24mm Estes motor ,but the dowel is longer and easier to use) and sand at an angle and test fit once in awhile.......LOTS of test fitting :eyeroll:

I also think it`s improtant to have the canted motor tubes glued together at the right angles ,even though there are gussets ? to help with this and make sure the lines you mark line up the same on all 3 tubes.

I used 5 min. epoxy to tack things together (ran out of CA) and used epoxy for the seams between the BT and the motor tubes.

HTH

I sure is a great build !

Paul T

 

[Rocketjunkie]

These pics are from my upscale Tres build. I built the fin/motor mounts as a unit, then with lots of careful cutting, sanding, and fitting of the LOC main tube. The fit was smoothed with epoxy.View attachment 108006View attachment 108007View attachment 108008View attachment 108005
Finished Tres in photos is the stock 18mm kit. Build thread is at https://www.rocketryforumarchive.com/showthread.php?t=7169

 

[terryg]

Sodmeister how did you attach the recovery harness to the motor mount? I am debating whether to attach it to the motor mount in some fashion or to build a half moon baffle in the coupler and attach it there. I had forgotten how strong basewood is and after cutting one fin with an exacto blade I got out the scroll saw and cut the rest in no time.

 

[sodmeister]

Sodmeister how did you attach the recovery harness to the motor mount? I am debating whether to attach it to the motor mount in some fashion or to build a half moon baffle in the coupler and attach it there. I had forgotten how strong basewood is and after cutting one fin with an exacto blade I got out the scroll saw and cut the rest in no time.

I kind of did a modified Estes tri-fold thing ,but instead of paper ,I used a piece of body tube BT-70 and cut a piece about an 1 1/2" long and about 1 1/2" wide ,punched two holes in it and threaded some Kevlar SC through the holes and then knoted it and epoxied it into the far aft end.I used 1/8" Kevlar bought from fuddrucker (Gary) so it should last plenty long.I have not flown it as yet (finished it too late for my season) but I plan on it comming down on two chutes, so I made a modification for that also.

I too used 3/16" Basswood for the fins ,so it should be nice and sturdy.If it flies like the 18mm version ,then it`s going to be a BLAST !

Take care

Paul T

 

[terryg]

I will probably do something similar. I have some very heavy industrial tpaper tubes that I have used in the past with no problems. The only issues I have had with this approach is that it easier for the shock cord to act like a cheese slicer and cause zippers with a hard deployment. I though about tying directly to the motor tube but decided that 3 ejection charges pointed directly at even kevlar was not a good idea. My goal is to get ready to fly by our Jan SARA launch (we launch year round and our enemy is the heat, not the cold).

 

[sodmeister]

I will probably do something similar. I have some very heavy industrial tpaper tubes that I have used in the past with no problems. The only issues I have had with this approach is that it easier for the shock cord to act like a cheese slicer and cause zippers with a hard deployment. I though about tying directly to the motor tube but decided that 3 ejection charges pointed directly at even kevlar was not a good idea. My goal is to get ready to fly by our Jan SARA launch (we launch year round and our enemy is the heat, not the cold).

I have the Kevlar attachment point pretty far down the tube ,but also ,I wrap and then shrink tube the area that will come in contact with the edge of the BT to help prevent the zipper.But also ,I am going the two chute route on this one ,as i don`t want those two parts comming in contact with each other and smashing or getting tangled.Besides ,I`m not really going for any altitude records on this one ,so two chute should not be too much of a hike LOL

On my 18mm TRES ,I have about 7 flights on her so far ,and all is in good shape ,as I also did the same procedure for mounting the kevlar.

Take care

Paul T

Paul T

 

[jflis]

One note that will help extend the life of your upscale...

Put a tube coupler inside the tube, right at the top of the engine mount. The larger ejection charge, aimed right at the interior wall of the body tube, will eventually damage the tube. The added thickness of the coupler will protect this quite well

 

[sodmeister]

One note that will help extend the life of your upscale...

Put a tube coupler inside the tube, right at the top of the engine mount. The larger ejection charge, aimed right at the interior wall of the body tube, will eventually damage the tube. The added thickness of the coupler will protect this quite well

Oh....I never thought of that

Paul T

 

[terryg]

I wish I has thought of this before I glued the main tubes together last night. Even a coating of epoxy would have been a good idea. I am used to High Power tubes and it did not occur to me. Something to do for the next version. LOL

 

[sodmeister]

I wish I has thought of this before I glued the main tubes together last night. Even a coating of epoxy would have been a good idea. I am used to High Power tubes and it did not occur to me. Something to do for the next version. LOL

Yup ! it just never occured to me about all those ejection "Estes shotgun" charges going off and burning into the BT wall.So far my original version is holding up, hope this one dies well.

Paul T

 

[terryg]

Launched my Tres today at our Jan club launch. Almost no wind and a balmy 75 degree temperature gave perfect launch conditions. The three D12-5 engines light instantly with quest Q2G2 igniters and the flight was perfectly straight up to about 600 ft. It landed about 30 ft from the pad. The only damage was some paint bubbleing at the exposed forward ends of the motor tubes due to heat. I made thrust rings with masking tape and did not use any spacers. I suspect a spacer would give some extra protection when using shorter then "E" length engines.

 

[sodmeister]

Launched my Tres today at our Jan club launch. Almost no wind and a balmy 75 degree temperature gave perfect launch conditions. The three D12-5 engines light instantly with quest Q2G2 igniters and the flight was perfectly straight up to about 600 ft. It landed about 30 ft from the pad. The only damage was some paint bubbleing at the exposed forward ends of the motor tubes due to heat. I made thrust rings with masking tape and did not use any spacers. I suspect a spacer would give some extra protection when using shorter then "E" length engines.

Good show !

The spacer idea is a good one ,as I guess things can get pretty hot in those tubes.

If I could do it again ,I would have put a coupler near where the 3 motor tubes come together in the body tube ,to help protect the inside from those ejection blasts.

I can hardly wait to fly mine !

Paul T

 

[jflis]

To be honest, I had built my Proto before thinking up that idea with the coupler for heat protection... What I did was to carefully cut the tube about 2" above the motor mount then reassemble the tube using the coupler. Had to clean up some fin work, but it wasn't too bad...

Just a thought...

 

[sodmeister]

To be honest, I had built my Proto before thinking up that idea with the coupler for heat protection... What I did was to carefully cut the tube about 2" above the motor mount then reassemble the tube using the coupler. Had to clean up some fin work, but it wasn't too bad...

Just a thought...

Hmmm...I never thought of that.That idea may be used if/when the BT strats to get too fried to fly.

Or perhaps now ! Is that just a basic estes type coupler Jim ?

Paul T

 

[jflis]

Yep! In the case of the 24mm upscale, it would be the CPL-70-04 (4" long)

I am going to dig up my model and drawings to provide more details later this afternoon and post my results. Stay tuned

 

[jflis]

Following up, as promised.

The question came up about using a tube (stage) coupler inside the tube, just above the Tres engine mount, to help protect the tube from the 3 hot ejection charges. This becomes even more important when you consider that the ejection charges are aimed right at the inside side wall of the tube...

I had mentioned that I had added a coupler to my upscale Tres after I had assembled it and you asked how I had done it. Well, here's the scoop

There are two ways to accomplish this:

1) Cut the BT-70 body tube a couple of inches below where the shock cord mount is glued in. This will then give you a clear path to slide a coupler all the way down the tube until it rests just above the engine mount. You may have to clean the inside of the tube a bit so that the coupler slides easily all the way down. A wood dowel can be used to tap it into place. Once seated (no glue needed), you then use a second coupler to re-connect the tube at the cut line.

2) (Which is the method that I used) Cut the BT-70 a few inches above the engine mount and use the coupler to not only protect the body tube, but also to re-connect the cut tube itself. What was missing were some details, which follow:

When I modified mine, I hadn't painted it yet (well, STILL haven't, but that's a different story... LOL). The best place to cut is about 2-2.5" above the engine mount. That way, with a 4" long coupler (CPL-70-04), you get about half for each body tube segment. What I did was to cut the tube at the very top of the fin, at the fin/strake joint, using a razor knife to separate that joint. This allowed me to separate at this point with minimal impact to the appearance of the model.

NOTE: I made a point of identifying one mating fin/strake so that I could match them up, knowing that no two of them would be exact with respect to each other. This eliminated fit problems when I put her back together.

Once separated into two pieces, I cleaned the inside of the body and seated the coupler into the lower part (fin can) with a liberal amount of glue. When dry, I glue the upper part of the body tube back in place, lining up the strakes with the fins.

It worked out quite well and I have little worries about body tube damage from the ejection charges.

I have attached a pdf that shows a graphic of what I have just explained here. If there are any additional questions, fire away!

hope this helps!
jim

View attachment tres-24mm coupler.pdf

 

[sodmeister]

Jim ,that does help !

Thanks for that and the file ,very useful.

I need to order some stuff from you ASAP !

Paul T

 

[terryg]

Photos of the flight. We have several good photographers that attend our launches.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sararocketry/8403444600/in/set-72157632576513741/

https://fotos.nahcpj.com/sara_01202013/h531a4148#h531a4148

https://fotos.nahcpj.com/sara_01202013/h531A4136#h531a4136

https://fotos.nahcpj.com/sara_01202013/h531a4148#h531a401a

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sararocketry/8403446546/in/set-72157632576513741/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sararocketry/8402357447/in/set-72157632576513741/

 

[sodmeister]

Very nice to see those flight pictures ,I`m getting aweful itchy to fly mine.


Paul T