Aerotech Sparkies

[terryg]

Aerotech is coming out with a sparky propellant. There are images of it's burn on Aerotech's face book site. Hope it is out before the NSL and LDRS, since it looks like a good formula for night launches.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/AeroTech-Consumer-Aerospace/159005948954

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3445044&id=159005948954#!/photo.php?pid=3445044&id=159005948954&fbid=343095003954

[Viperfixr]

Looks more like a Silver Streak than a traditional skidmark to me.

[stickershock23]

how original..

[cjl]

That's a very different look than most of the sparkies I've seen. I'll need to try one. Unfortunately, our main launch site just banned sparkies, but there's still some other sites that allow them that are not too far.

[cjl]

how original..

Here's a good rule of thumb: never complain about more available rocket motors :D

[cobra1336]

I've been waiting for these

[The EGE]

Looks more like a Silver Streak than a traditional skidmark to me.

Agreed.

[jim fustini]

I say the more different motors the better.
CTI Aerotech, Loki, Whatever, It just makes the hobby better.:clap:

[Viperfixr]

I say the more different motors the better.
CTI Aerotech, Loki, Whatever, It just makes the hobby better.:clap:

Absolutely. I think the political battle between AT or CTI fans is unresolvable, and carries a lot of emotion. Anything that divides the community isn't good, long term.

What *is* good is competition, and that's what CTI is clearly providing. Consumers (us) only stand to benefit from this competition. AT will answer CTI's call, and may surprise us--this would not be a bad thing.

Just me, but I think we should look at these developments positively. We should hope for both companies to give us their best...and that our small hobby thrives and grows from it.

[tomar]

What *is* good is competition, and that's what CTI is clearly providing. Consumers (us) only stand to benefit from this competition. AT will answer CTI's call, and may surprise us--this would not be a bad thing.

I agree. However, I wish CTI were more price competitive in their 29mm reloads. AT prices are better on the 29mm line.

We are soon going to have a much wider choice of motors in the 24mm space thanks to CTI. Again, competitive pricing here is important.

[ScrapDaddy]

Absolutely. I think the political battle between AT or CTI proponents is unresolvable.........

What On Earth Is a proponent? :confused::D:confused:
Anyway areotech is a little late on the sparky Propellent market; CTI has been making them for years..... The more the merrier :cheers:

[Handeman]

Absolutely. I think the political battle between AT or CTI proponents is unresolvable, and carries a lot of non-constructive emotion. Anything that divides the community isn't good, long term.



I don't know about that. This reminds me of the muscle car wars of the 60's and early 70's, Chevy, Ford and Dodge. It sure helped NASCAR, NHRA, etc. and put a lot of great cars on the market.

[madmax]

Anyway areotech is a little late on the sparky Propellent market; CTI has been making them for years..... The more the merrier :cheers:

Correction, AMW was making sparky propellant for years. CTI only started to produce when they purchased/merged with AMW a couple of years ago. It also appears that they improved on the formula.

[stickershock23]

I agree. However, I wish CTI were more price competitive in their 29mm reloads. AT prices are better on the 29mm line.

We are soon going to have a much wider choice of motors in the 24mm space thanks to CTI. Again, competitive pricing here is important.

I agree and disagree

Price is important. but I'd pay twice as much if i was given better service and better quality! thats worth more than a few buck any day.. not to mention easy cleanup.

Have you ever fired a AMW skidmark? I flew 2 and would never fly one again.. why? CLEANUP WAS A BEAR, my cases never were the same. and those are the thick AMW cases I can't imagine what cleanup will be like in AT.. now CTI. one twist and its clean.. heck you can go 20 firings without cleaning them and would never know the difference.. thats worth a little more cost too. less time cleaning means more time flying!

[tomar]

I agree and disagree

Price is important. but I'd pay twice as much if i was given better service and better quality! thats worth more than a few buck any day.. not to mention easy cleanup.

Have you ever fired a AMW skidmark? I flew 2 and would never fly one again.. why? CLEANUP WAS A BEAR, my cases never were the same. and those are the thick AMW cases I can't imagine what cleanup will be like in AT.. now CTI. one twist and its clean.. heck you can go 20 firings without cleaning them and would never know the difference.. thats worth a little more cost too. less time cleaning means more time flying!

I agree. A FEW extra dollars for convenience is worth it. However, $38 for an I224 vs. $28 for an I200 is a little more than a few dollars (36% more). I'll pay it, but a little harder to part with. Even the 38mm J330 at $60 vs. a J350 at $50 is 20% higher.

I've got full sets of AT from 18mm to 54mm and CTI 29mm to 38mm (soon to include 24m), so I have lots of choices. I fly what ever my on site vendor has AT or CTI.

I have never fired any AMW load and I've had a 2550 case for at least 5 years. I have fired lots of Ellis Mountain loads. They too are a bear to clean, especially the graphite nozzle for re-use. I love them, but hate cleaning them.

Sparky motors do not interest me. I do think they are cool to see, but just not my thing.

I do thing CTI is setting the bar rather high for the other rocket motor manufacturer (all of them). For that (competition and motor selection) I am thankful.

[bguffer]

I have flown a AMW 315SK in a AMW 38mm case. Cleanup was more difficult. Part of that was due to no use of an insulation tube. The propellant grains (along with their casting tubes) are slid directly into the AMW snap ring case.

Bob

[daveyfire]

The smokeless formula delivers an additional 7 sec of Isp vs. the original "Skidmark" in a 3 grain 38mm (or so it appears) case. That's pretty cool, and quite good for a motor that dumps 10% of its propellant mass out the nozzle unconsumed. I doubt cleanup will be too bad, too, because all the junk should come out with the liner. And I'm quite glad that both CTI and AT are using phenolic nozzles with their sparky motors... otherwise there might be a shortage of graphite from which to make new nozzles :D

I'm glad the competition on the market is breeding new ideas from both manufacturers. It's healthy. I just wish the fanboi-ism would die down, to some extent. (A little prodding is fun. Too much gets a bit ridiculous.)


What On Earth Is a proponent?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=define%3Aproponent

[cjl]

I have flown a AMW 315SK in a AMW 38mm case. Cleanup was more difficult. Part of that was due to no use of an insulation tube. The propellant grains (along with their casting tubes) are slid directly into the AMW snap ring case.

Bob

I flew a couple of I315s, and they were among the most difficult motors to clean up out of all that I have ever flown (only a K555 has been more difficult).

[Handeman]

I flew a couple of I315s, and they were among the most difficult motors to clean up out of all that I have ever flown (only a K555 has been more difficult).

I guess I was very fortunate. I borrowed a case to fly a J365SK at LDRS. Before got a chance to clean it, the person I borrowed it from wanted it back and said they would clean it. Thanks Ben!

[cjl]

That's one area where I definitely prefer the new CTI skids. I flew a couple of K675 (Pro54 6g) skids at LDRS, and they were MUCH easier to clean than AMW. One of them melted the liner a bit though, so it was a tiny bit harder than most CTI motors (not bad at all though, considering).

[MaxQ]

Looks more like a Silver Streak than a traditional skidmark to me.

That's FINE by me....

[Viperfixr]

That's FINE by me....

Me too...I think it's a great addition, and adds even more variety for us.

[Viperfixr]

What On Earth Is a proponent? :confused::D:confused:
Anyway areotech is a little late on the sparky Propellent market; CTI has been making them for years..... The more the merrier :cheers:

Merriam-Webster says: "one who argues in favor of something" :neener:

Funny thing is that when I first wrote this I mis-spelled the word, and the spell checker's suggestion was "propellant". Almost the same thing in this case.

Yes, the more the merrier! I am not against either company--I am for both os them. I certified L1 with Aerotech and L2 with CTI; I hope they both succeed and compete in the long run. I just wish we wouldn't constantly spit this small community on political/emotional issues that don't HELP it.

[The EGE]

Oh man.... I can't imagine how fun clustering AT + CTI sparkies would be. Orange sparks + white sparks + black smoke.....

Or is that like combining matter and antimatter ? :p

[cjl]

You could get a similar effect with a central Smoky Sam surrounded by AT sparkies (I would bet that both types use Ti as the spark material, so there's probably not much difference in the color of the actual sparks).

[cha05cat]

As an Aussie rocketeer I think this is great news! Currently, both importers (Ausrocketry and Dawn Trading) only import Estes and AT motors, and everyone is keen on sparky reloads! So this means we get a totally new type of motor to play with now!!!

With any luck Ausrocketry will eventually get some CTI stock moving to OZ but until then this is good news for us!

[Donaldsrockets]

I can't wait until these are available.:D

Now I don't have to buy new hardware to fly sparky motors.:D

[Initiator001]

Anyway areotech is a little late on the sparky Propellent market; CTI has been making them for years..... The more the merrier :cheers:

The first AeroTech White Lightning motors (F41 motors, approximately 1988) had a 'mild' sparky effect which was eliminated in a change made to the propellant.

[Mikus]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=define%3Aproponent

Let Me Google That For You.com??? OMG, that is great! Thanks for the link, I totally missed that site. :roll:

Boy howdy is my sister going to hate that..... :gavel:

[UPscaler]

Let Me Google That For You.com??? OMG, that is great! Thanks for the link, I totally missed that site. :roll:

Boy howdy is my sister going to hate that..... :gavel:

:roll:
you've never heard of that before? I love it.

it's helpful and ignorant.

[FlyBoy]

If you want value fly the KBA's, $10 Gs, $15 Hs and a $30 J-520.

[harsas]

I can't wait until these are available.:D

Now I don't have to buy new hardware to fly sparky motors.:D

I don't think hardware is the issue....
:dark:

Right DONALD?
:y:

[Donaldsrockets]

I don't think hardware is the issue....
:dark:

Right DONALD?
:y:

Um Harold, it's not necessarily a sparky, it's more of a Metal Storm!!!:D

[The EGE]

117Ns single-use G75M :headbang:

And loads coming for 29/240, 38/360, 38/720, and 54mm, 75mm, and 98mm cases.

[UPscaler]

117Ns single-use G75M :headbang:

And loads coming for 29/240, 38/360, 38/720, and 54mm, 75mm, and 98mm cases.
Single use sparkies?:y:

and one for my 29/240 case! Great, except Tripoli Idaho doesn't allow sparkies :(

[BsSmith]

Single use!

These sparkys look great! They will be the first motors on my list for this years launches!

[Donaldsrockets]

It was also mentioned on the AT Facebook that the G75M will come in 4, 7 and 10 second delays.

I'd love to fly the G75-4M in my AT G-Force and Sunward King Tut pyramid and the G75-7M would be ideal for my soon to be finished Wildman Drago.:D

I'm not normally a fanatic of SU motors due to cost but these sure grabbed my attention. Actually, never mind the cost, the MSRP is $19.99 each. An excellent price for a SU sparky G motor.:D

Now if only I could convince my TRA prefect and flying buddy Harold that they are not a sparky but a Metal Storm, we'll be all set!!!:D

Seriously, the club FLASH that I fly with does not allow sparkies due to high and dry grass but I intend to fly these at a club that does allow the use of sparky motors.

[madsen]

Single use!

These sparkys look great! They will be the first motors on my list for this years launches!

I second and third that. For pure visual effect--these "metal storm" motors have it all over any sparky. (PS--just heard from Balsa Machining Service--my 1320 case and J510 reloads are on their way--except for K550 and above--I will not need 54MM in the future.)

[harsas]

Now if only I could convince my TRA prefect and flying buddy Harold that they are not a sparky but a Metal Storm, we'll be all set!!!:D

Seriously, the club FLASH that I fly with does not allow sparkies due to high and dry grass but I intend to fly these at a club that does allow the use of sparky motors.


GRRRRR
:mad:

Seriously, Donald, if you want to fly some fireworks, I mean sparkies, you can fly them in Tampa. I go there frequently. So buy a couple and I will be happy to have you accompany one Saturday...
:cheers:

[rockie]

Bit confused , do i need cert to buy the G75M ?

[Donaldsrockets]

Bit confused , do i need cert to buy the G75M ?

Yes because it will most likely contain more than 62.5 grams of propellant. Note that this is no longer an ATF requirement but any motor containing more than 62.5 grams of propellant is considered a HP motor and ALL sparkies regardless of size are considered HP motors due to the sparks.

[rockie]

Yes because it will most likely contain more than 62.5 grams of propellant. Note that this is no longer an ATF requirement but any motor containing more than 62.5 grams of propellant is considered a HP motor and ALL sparkies regardless of size are considered HP motors due to the sparks.

Ok, kind of guessed thats how it was. One more reason to get L1 now :P

[ben_ullman]

Yes because it will most likely contain more than 62.5 grams of propellant. Note that this is no longer an ATF requirement but any motor containing more than 62.5 grams of propellant is considered a HP motor and ALL sparkies regardless of size are considered HP motors due to the sparks.

Please show me where it says sparks=high power?

Ben

[5x7]

That is only for non-retired rocketeers :)


Please show me where it says sparks=high power?

Ben

[terryg]

http://www.rocketryplanet.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3183&Itemid=29

This change will allow for the existence of sparky E or F motors joining the current sparky G motors down the road, all of which would automatically be classified as high power rocket motors, and comes with a requirement for any high power rocket motor of G-impulse or lower to have an "HP" prefix added to the motor's letter designation to eliminate consumer, vendor and RSO confusion, a requirement that will be stated on motor labeling and in accompanying instructions. Markings to add the words "high power rocket motor" and "for sale only to certified users 18 years of age or older" on all high power packaging will also become mandated in 1125.

[ben_ullman]

That is only for non-retired rocketeers :)

ouch :p I can still know rockets even if I dont fly them haha

Ben

[ben_ullman]

http://www.rocketryplanet.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3183&Itemid=29

This change will allow for the existence of sparky E or F motors joining the current sparky G motors down the road, all of which would automatically be classified as high power rocket motors, and comes with a requirement for any high power rocket motor of G-impulse or lower to have an "HP" prefix added to the motor's letter designation to eliminate consumer, vendor and RSO confusion, a requirement that will be stated on motor labeling and in accompanying instructions. Markings to add the words "high power rocket motor" and "for sale only to certified users 18 years of age or older" on all high power packaging will also become mandated in 1125.

So let me make sure I understand this, I would need an L1 cert to fly E,F, and G sparkies? and also need to be 18 to purchase? What confusion is there between RSO's vendors etc. ??

Ben

[UPscaler]

L1 for E,F and G motors...

That's a little disappointing.I suppose it won't matter when my dad gets his L1. but it kinda eliminates non certified sparky fun.

[n3tjm]

At narcon, during the safety meeting, they made it clear why they wanted sparkies to be considered HPR. At our launches, we have ppl that understand that sparkies can start fires, we are ready for that, capable of saying no if we feel that the conditions are not ideal to fly them, and if there is a fire we are good at putting them out. If a sparky E, F, or G was a mod roc motor, somebody who does not know all of this or does not think its a big deal may buy it, take it to their park, and start a big huge fire.

[The EGE]

At narcon, during the safety meeting, they made it clear why they wanted sparkies to be considered HPR. At our launches, we have ppl that understand that sparkies can start fires, we are ready for that, capable of saying no if we feel that the conditions are not ideal to fly them, and if there is a fire we are good at putting them out. If a sparky E, F, or G was a mod roc motor, somebody who does not know all of this or does not think its a big deal may buy it, take it to their park, and start a big huge fire.

That makes a lot more sense now.

[ben_ullman]

That makes a lot more sense now.

I mean I can see both sides of the stories. You would have to be using the motor not for its intended purpose to start a brush fire, but then again, you can do that with any motor. There is not way some 150 mesh Ti is going to cause a fire. Theres probably 3grams of Ti in an E motor (just a rough, never made one hah)

Ben

[cjl]

I mean I can see both sides of the stories. You would have to be using the motor not for its intended purpose to start a brush fire, but then again, you can do that with any motor. There is not way some 150 mesh Ti is going to cause a fire. Theres probably 3grams of Ti in an E motor (just a rough, never made one hah)

Ben

You've clearly never launched at a site with any decent amount of dry grass. A sparky motor, used entirely in the intended fashion, can definitely start a brush fire. Even if the sparky motor is small. It may not be very likely, but why take the risk?

[UPscaler]

I mean I can see both sides of the stories. You would have to be using the motor not for its intended purpose to start a brush fire, but then again, you can do that with any motor. There is not way some 150 mesh Ti is going to cause a fire. Theres probably 3grams of Ti in an E motor (just a rough, never made one hah)

Ben

Yeah. I see what they are trying to get at. Sparkies can easily set things on fire.

I do agree with Ben however, Even an estes E motor could start a fire if launched from a bad area.

It's clear that they just want to make sure sparky motors stay in the hands of responsible rocketry enthusiasts.

[ben_ullman]

You've clearly never launched at a site with any decent amount of dry grass. A sparky motor, used entirely in the intended fashion, can definitely start a brush fire. Even if the sparky motor is small. It may not be very likely, but why take the risk?

If the safety rules are followed with a blast deflector there shouldn't be any fire. The spark trail is going to be maybe 6" long. I just don't see it. I would love to isolate a 3x3 foot space and do some testing though. Would be pretty intersting cause I have never seen any true hard testing done

Ben

[UPscaler]

[

I can't see it being a problem either.

Even with a lot of dry grass around, the TI should be out by the time it hits the ground, and if clubs are concerned about it, there is always the kevlar blanket below the launch pad option.

[ScrapDaddy]

You've clearly never launched at a site with any decent amount of dry grass. A sparky motor, used entirely in the intended fashion, can definitely start a brush fire. Even if the sparky motor is small. It may not be very likely, but why take the risk?

Why not just use a large nomex blanket? And I do see the huge safty issue, can you imagine if an idiot like me got my hands on one? That ALONE should be the reason to not to sell this to the little people :D while you are at it why not make it legal to sell BP to minors.And launching with a fire hazard isn't a problem when launching from antartica :D

[cjl]

If the safety rules are followed with a blast deflector there shouldn't be any fire. The spark trail is going to be maybe 6" long. I just don't see it. I would love to isolate a 3x3 foot space and do some testing though. Would be pretty intersting cause I have never seen any true hard testing done

Ben

6 inches? You clearly haven't seen the video AT posted of their G motor. It has an impressive plume of sparks that's at least 6-8 feet long (likely more, but you can't tell with the camera angle).

[harsas]

If the safety rules are followed with a blast deflector there shouldn't be any fire. The spark trail is going to be maybe 6" long. I just don't see it. I would love to isolate a 3x3 foot space and do some testing though. Would be pretty intersting cause I have never seen any true hard testing done

Ben


Before we banned sparkies at our site, we tested them. Our club President loaded a small K (1400 case, I think) and we launched from the center of a two lane road, probably 30 feet across. We had several small fires light up on both sides of the road, as far as 50 feet in from the road. Sparkies DO start fires.
:y:

[The EGE]

Why not just use a large nomex blanket? And I do see the huge safty issue, can you imagine if an idiot like me got my hands on one? That ALONE should be the reason to not to sell this to the little people :D while you are at it why not make it legal to sell BP to minors.And launching with a fire hazard isn't a problem when launching from antartica :D

Nomex blankets are very pricey. A 5-foot blanket is about 100 dollars; you'd need several to protect against a large sparky G. Most folks who are uninformed enough to fly a sparky on flammable grass are not the type to get the blanket first.

There are reasons why minors cannot buy high-power motors like sparkies. They are orders of magnitudes more dangerous than BP motors.

Last I knew, you don't launch in Antarctica. That happens, let me know.

[terryg]

I am not sure the metalstorm is using titanium for the effects. As I understand it, the high cost of the titanium is the reason the skidmarks are more expensive then other reloads. The aerotech sparkie is supposed to be priced at the same level as other loads of a similar impulse.

[MarkII]

http://www.rocketryplanet.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3183&Itemid=29

This change will allow for the existence of sparky E or F motors joining the current sparky G motors down the road, all of which would automatically be classified as high power rocket motors, and comes with a requirement for any high power rocket motor of G-impulse or lower to have an "HP" prefix added to the motor's letter designation to eliminate consumer, vendor and RSO confusion, a requirement that will be stated on motor labeling and in accompanying instructions. Markings to add the words "high power rocket motor" and "for sale only to certified users 18 years of age or older" on all high power packaging will also become mandated in 1125.The label on the G75 that Gary was showing at NARCON already had that wording.

MarkII

[MarkII]

I am not sure the metalstorm is using titanium for the effects. As I understand it, the high cost of the titanium is the reason the skidmarks are more expensive then other reloads. The aerotech sparkie is supposed to be priced at the same level as other loads of a similar impulse.Magnesium sponge was what Gary said, I think.

MarkII

[tomar]

Why not just use a large nomex blanket? And I do see the huge safty issue, can you imagine if an idiot like me got my hands on one? That ALONE should be the reason to not to sell this to the little people :D while you are at it why not make it legal to sell BP to minors.And launching with a fire hazard isn't a problem when launching from antartica :D

Come on folks, it's not about you and I and our good judgement when it comes to flying sparkies. It's to keep it out of the hands of nimrods that haven't a clue about safe distances and clear of flamables zones around the launch pad. It is about safety, not simply safety at our rocket launches, but for Joe Blow minor who buys motors and goes to the local park or field to fly.

Read the NFPA procedings where this was decided.


Which would you rather have?

All sparkies treated as HPR motors with the same purchase requirements

--OR--

Sparkies only H and above (no E,F and G sparkies)

This is my understanding as to what the choices were.

Just be happy we can have sparkeis in the MPR motor ranges. We've lived with worse restrictions.

[falingtrea]

Be glad you can fly sparkies at all. If I remember correctly, there was initial discussion when sparky motors were released as to whether they could be classified as rocket motors or fireworks. I also think there was an initial recommendation for NFPA 1125 that "special effects" would not be allowed unless they contributed to safety or performance of the motor. So smokey motors were ok because the trail allowed you to follow the trajectory.

And a Rocktry Planet article on the issue can be found here:
http://www.rocketryplanet.com/content/view/3162/29/

[rocket999]

Magnesium sponge was what Gary said, I think.

MarkII

I don't make motors, bit I am pretty sure that the magnesium couldn't be used in a composite sparky because it would all burn in the motor. They would have to use ridiculously large mesh magnesium to get the sparky effect. I know that BP motors can, but I read that it won't work in composites.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Sam

[ben_ullman]

I don't make motors, bit I am pretty sure that the magnesium couldn't be used in a composite sparky because it would all burn in the motor. They would have to use ridiculously large mesh magnesium to get the sparky effect. I know that BP motors can, but I read that it won't work in composites.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Sam

No you can use sponge it will work.

And harsas: I am talking E-G sparkies. I know K sparkies and even J and I sparkies will start fires. I have started fires with them!! :roll: Apparently you didnt realize I was talking about the lower end of them.

The nozzle throats are so small that the Ti can't be very big which means it doesn't burn very long!

Ben

[MarkII]

Oh, Geez, I guess that I had better jump in there and row this one completely back to shore. In fact I'm not completely sure what Gary said about the propellant. There was a question shouted from the audience about it. I was sitting way in the back and I couldn't hear the speaker all that well, but it had to do with whether the Metalstorm propellant used some kind of metallic sponge. I thought questioner said magnesium, but now I'm not entirely sure of that. (I was pretty beat by then after having left my house during the wee hours and driving 5.5 hrs. to get there that morning.) All Gary said in response was "Yes" or "That's right" or something like that. I'm sure that we'll know more when the motor is actually released. Earlier, Gary was showing the G Metalstorm motor off at his table in the Vendor Exhibition area. I did pick it up and look it over.

MarkII

[Donaldsrockets]

And harsas: I am talking E-G sparkies. I know K sparkies and even J and I sparkies will start fires. I have started fires with them!! :roll: Apparently you didnt realize I was talking about the lower end of them.

Sparkies are banned at our site due to dry grass. Size doesn't matter. I once asked Harold about a G sparky and he still said no.;)

I definitely respect his decision because quite a few times we've had small fires pop up from regular non-sparky HP motors. I couldn't imagine what a sparky would have done!!!:y:

Fortunately we were easily able to stomp them out before they got to the point to where the use of a fire extinguisher would be required.

So much for me doing a L3 at our site with a big M sparky. C'mon Harold, how could you say no to that!!!:D:D:D

[ScrapDaddy]

Nomex blankets are very pricey. A 5-foot blanket is about 100 dollars; you'd need several to protect against a large sparky G. Most folks who are uninformed enough to fly a sparky on flammable grass are not the type to get the blanket first.

There are reasons why minors cannot buy high-power motors like sparkies. They are orders of magnitudes more dangerous than BP motors.

Last I knew, you don't launch in Antarctica. That happens, let me know.

Well my dream is to conquer antartica :D but I compleatly agree with minors not being able to purchase sparkies and I have seen the pricing on nomex blenkets :y: how bout a field of estes wadding? :D

[jsdemar]

It doesn't look like titanium. Probably around 100msh steel or Mg. In a small motor, the Mg will not all combust. I made an AP motor will a similar-looking effect about 10 years ago... I always liked the BP Silverstreaks and wanted to make something with the same effect. Steel is great, but it really needs a single-use nozzle.

-John

[ben_ullman]

Sparkies are banned at our site due to dry grass. Size doesn't matter. I once asked Harold about a G sparky and he still said no.;)

I definitely respect his decision because quite a few times we've had small fires pop up from regular non-sparky HP motors. I couldn't imagine what a sparky would have done!!!:y:

Fortunately we were easily able to stomp them out before they got to the point to where the use of a fire extinguisher would be required.

So much for me doing a L3 at our site with a big M sparky. C'mon Harold, how could you say no to that!!!:D:D:D

Actually alot of those small fires are caused by still hot/burning ignitors falling to the ground. Seen it happen up close.

Ben

[dlb]

Their just a keep a eye on motor type, and not to act foolish, and we can all bet somebody out there has that dumb gene.

Just a way to try to curb or try too protect, at lease try!

All I want to see is a sleeved/linered Sparky at a reasonable price, love sparkys, but my cases too!

Never flown a CTI motor, they look nice, till the price tag gets in the way.
So hopefully AT will be cheaper

[cjl]

Their just a keep a eye on motor type, and not to act foolish, and we can all bet somebody out there has that dumb gene.

Just a way to try to curb or try too protect, at lease try!

All I want to see is a sleeved/linered Sparky at a reasonable price, love sparkys, but my cases too!

Never flown a CTI motor, they look nice, till the price tag gets in the way.
So hopefully AT will be cheaper

CTI motors are more expensive than AT (at least in the small sizes), but the difference isn't that large.

[harsas]

So much for me doing a L3 at our site with a big M sparky. C'mon Harold, how could you say no to that!!!:D:D:D


Very easily, just ask the neighbors.....
:p

[harsas]

Actually alot of those small fires are caused by still hot/burning ignitors falling to the ground. Seen it happen up close.

Ben


Ben, you are right. We have small fires started by igniters all the time. Not to mention Estes motors and standard hp motors. But sparkies don't just start a fire, they can start many fires, and that is not compatible with our site. I have never, nor would I ever suggest banning the use of sparkies in general. Each club needs to understand their own site and regulate it as needed. However, I do think it is a good idea that access to sparky motors is limited to folks that understand the risk.

[bguffer]

CTI motors are cheaper than AT (at least in the small sizes), but the difference isn't that large.

Where can i get those cheaper CTI reloads? www.wildmanrocketry.com lists 29mm 4 grain Aerotech reloads as $20, but CTI 29mm 4 grain reloads as $26. www.giantleaprocketry.com was offering the CTI 29mm 4 grain reloads for $26 as well.

Bob

[dlb]

I find the same as well.

So far the best bang for the buck is Kosdon KBA and or Kosdon TRM.
"G" 29mm motors for 11.00 bucks, now thats a deal, and it's the list price!!!

[cjl]

Where can i get those cheaper CTI reloads? www.wildmanrocketry.com lists 29mm 4 grain Aerotech reloads as $20, but CTI 29mm 4 grain reloads as $26. www.giantleaprocketry.com was offering the CTI 29mm 4 grain reloads for $26 as well.

Bob

Sorry - I had a disconnect there between my brain and my hands. I meant to say that they were more expensive. The casings are cheaper though.

[MarkII]

I find the same as well.

So far the best bang for the buck is Kosdon KBA and or Kosdon TRM.
"G" 29mm motors for 11.00 bucks, now thats a deal, and it's the list price!!!I don't know about the KBA (Kosdon By Aerotech) reloads, but aren't the Kosdon TRM reloads all old stock? (Really old stock?) They are cheap because that was the price back when they were legally sold the first time.

MarkII

[daveyfire]

They are cheap because that was the price back when they were legally sold the first time.

Frank last updated his price list in 2000. Last I spoke with him, he doesn't intend to update it anytime soon :D

(His pricing on larger motors is still fairly in-line with today's, e.g. $157 for a 2550 load, $278 for a 6000... things haven't changed all that much.)

[terryg]

G75 Metalstorm

[Donaldsrockets]

That looks awesome!!!:D:D:D

I gotta try a few of these. I hope that they release them in LMS format eventually. Then you could get them without having to pay HAZMAT.

[terryg]

J340M

[terryg]

and the K540M:

[Marsman]

What's that "explosion" of sparks that occurs about midway thru the K burn?

Also, what do these motors sound like for anyone with firsthand knowledge?

[terryg]

http://www.rocketryplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6194

[Viperfixr]

Also, what do these motors sound like for anyone with firsthand knowledge?

ur8rU85NkSU

[Pantherjon]

Very cool!:cool: Added to my ever growing list of motors to try!:roll:

[ben_ullman]

What's that "explosion" of sparks that occurs about midway thru the K burn?

Also, what do these motors sound like for anyone with firsthand knowledge?

Its looks like it spit a chunk of propellant or a casting tube.

Ben

[The EGE]

What's that "explosion" of sparks that occurs about midway thru the K burn?

Also, what do these motors sound like for anyone with firsthand knowledge?

On Facebook Gary said

"I think the burst of sparks is from a build-up of metal slag in the nozzle."

[n3tjm]

I think it looks more like a slug of propellant, a sparky clog usually interupts the smoke trail before coming unclogged.

I seen this effect in the RMS 29/360 redline load. It had a bad grain but it was flown anyway. The motor ignited, rocket rose a foot, the spat a huge red fireball, and the flight continued normally.

[Viperfixr]

I think it looks more like a slug of propellant, a sparky clog usually interupts the smoke trail before coming unclogged.

I seen this effect in the RMS 29/360 redline load. It had a bad grain but it was flown anyway. The motor ignited, rocket rose a foot, the spat a huge red fireball, and the flight continued normally.

This flight over-achieved in terms of maximum altitude reached--beat the RS9 prediction by a 20% margin. I'd be surprised if any propellant was wasted!

[bobkrech]

I don't make motors, bit I am pretty sure that the magnesium couldn't be used in a composite sparky because it would all burn in the motor. They would have to use ridiculously large mesh magnesium to get the sparky effect. I know that BP motors can, but I read that it won't work in composites.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Sam
Sparky motors have very large mesh particles. In the case of titanium, the particle size is just over 2 mm!

The particle size in standard motors can not exceed 150 um (0.006"). This insures that the propellant burns primarily inside the motor. To get a sparky effect the metal fuel particles must be large enough to exit the nozzle largely unburned, and then afterburn in the air.

Magnesium particles will burn with the oxygen in the air, while titanium will burn with both the oxygen and nitrogen in the air.

Bob