Semroc Saturn 1B

[Boosterdude]

Hey guys I need some advice. I started my Semroc 1B and can't decide what motor config to go with. I really do like the cluster layout, but at the same time I like the 24mm reloads.

Can anybody tell me about the performance of the 24mm reloads vs the c6X4 cluster?

[bguffer]

You could do both. I've done 4 x single use estes E motors. Flew fine both times.

Launch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXhRHekurj8&feature=channel_page
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBdhigVYUCY&feature=channel_page

Build:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOq3hQrqwH0&feature=channel_page
Noseweight was added, but i forgot to get it into the build video.

[Dennis Fox]

Hi John, here's mine. I built it as the 4 engine cluster, partially because that's the way the old Estes Saturn 1B was, and to avenge the disastrous flight of mine when I was 15 (only 2 engines lit, both on the same side). Clusters can be tricky, but you minimize (note I didn't say eliminate) the risk by using a good launcher, a 12 volt battery, clip whips, and cherry-pick your igniters. The single 24mm is more reliable, but there's nothing like seeing those 4 flames coming out of the bottom of your rocket.:D

Good luck,
Dennis

[wooden geezer]

I am building my saturn 1B just now and like you couldn't decide on the engine mount so i use a changable engine mount (http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=417)

Have fun

James

[Boosterdude]

It's a tough choice, but I'm going with the single 24mm mount. I really want to use the reloads with this rocket. I do like clusters however....

[Boosterdude]

Antoher question for you guys in regards to paint. I've been looking at a lot of pictures and I can't really tell if they used semi-gloss, or flat paint. In some pictures they look glossy, in others the paint looks flat.

Can anbody help me with this question?

[dwmzmm]

Antoher question for you guys in regards to paint. I've been looking at a lot of pictures and I can't really tell if they used semi-gloss, or flat paint. In some pictures they look glossy, in others the paint looks flat.

Can anbody help me with this question?

Although not the SEMROC kit (but the original Estes K-29 vintage model using the Apogee Apollo Capsule kit) I used gloss paint; the decals will set better.
I've almost finished the model; only got the decals to do and it's done (been
working on this bird since our Christmas Break 2008).....

[Dennis Fox]

Hi John, like Dave, I used glossy paint for the decals and coated it with Future after they were dry. I don't know if the full scale rocket was flat or gloss. I want to say flat but don't know for sure.

Nice Saturn Dave!

Dennis

[Boosterdude]

I'll post some pictures of the build tomorrow. So far so good,and Semroc really put together an excellent kit. I'm sort of going out of sequence since I want to get some painting done in sections. I'm building most of the upper half, and will paint the tanks before installing them.

[dwmzmm]

Hi John, like Dave, I used glossy paint for the decals and coated it with Future after they were dry. I don't know if the full scale rocket was flat or gloss. I want to say flat but don't know for sure.

Nice Saturn Dave!

Dennis

Thanks, Dennis! Just finished with the "larger" decals and some of the markings. Have a few more of the "smaller" decals and the model is just about
done.

[bguffer]

I'm not sure about which type of paint is better for applying decals, but i think flat paint looks better on the rockets. My Saturn 1B was done in flat/matte, while my Saturn V was done with a much more glossy paint. The Saturn V reflects lights a lot more, looks much more glossy, and less realistic than my Saturn 1B.

Maybe i wouldn't have noticed had i painted both rockets with the same type of paint...

Bob

[luke strawwalker]

I'm not sure about which type of paint is better for applying decals, but i think flat paint looks better on the rockets. My Saturn 1B was done in flat/matte, while my Saturn V was done with a much more glossy paint. The Saturn V reflects lights a lot more, looks much more glossy, and less realistic than my Saturn 1B.

Maybe i wouldn't have noticed had i painted both rockets with the same type of paint...

Bob

Do a compatibility test just to make sure, then shoot it with Testor's dullcoat (there are other dullcoats out there too) That will take the shine off it and make it look a lot better. OL JR :)

[FatBoy]

...and cherry-pick your igniters....

Dennis... Can you tell me what you do to cherrry-pick your ignitors?

[Boosterdude]

First couple pictures of the easy mod I made to the top star. I added some 1/8" stock to the top of the start to space the lower CR. Instead of having to mark each of the eight tanks with an 1/8" mark this will make sure they are all aligned/even.
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd96/BoosterDude/Semroc%20S1B%20Build/S1B_UpperStarMod.jpg

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd96/BoosterDude/Semroc%20S1B%20Build/S1B_UpperStarandBT100CR.jpg

[Boosterdude]

These are just some general pictures of the progress I made last night. The tanks have been primed with two coats. I'm planning on having the tanks completely painted before installing them. The capsule is the one from Apogee which is also totally awesome. This is a great building project.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd96/BoosterDude/Semroc%20S1B%20Build/S1B_StufferTubeandTanks.jpg

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd96/BoosterDude/Semroc%20S1B%20Build/S1B_ChuteTubeandShockCord.jpg

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd96/BoosterDude/Semroc%20S1B%20Build/S1B_UpperBT100Installed.jpg

[Dennis Fox]

Definitely do a compatibility test, especially if you use Future. I found out first had that Future and Testors Dullcote don't play well together. The result simulated alligator skin fairly closely in texture. :mad:

And as far as "cherry picking" igniters, I just look at them and try to find 4 or however many you need that look pretty much the same and have the same amount of pyrogen on the tips (I'm speaking of Estes type igniters). I try to stay away from the ones that look like some of the tip is broken off or missing. To go a bit further, get or borrow a multi meter and check the continuity of each one before inserting it and wiring it together with the others. I've had more than one that was broken inside the pyrogen and nothing happens when you push the button. Fortunately I didn't find this out when launching a cluster model. Then just be careful when you insert them, make sure the tip touches the propellant and gently (but firmly) insert the plug. You could even check the continuity of each one AFTER you insert them into the engines just to make sure you didn't break one while putting it in.

Then get someone else to wire them up for you so you can blame them if it doesn't work. ;) j/k

Dennis

[RocketT.Coyote]

My second Semroc Saturn 1B may be constructed with the 4-motor cluster. Possibly fly it on two C6-3s as an original was shown in Sport Rocketry recently.

[Boosterdude]

This picture is of the newly installed upper transition. I had no issues with building the transition piece, or installing it on the rocket. I didn't follow the instructions exactly because I found it easier to install the transition bulkhead on the rocket first. Then I slid the transition down the parachute tube where it joined the BT100.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd96/BoosterDude/Semroc%20S1B%20Build/S1BUpperTransition.jpg

I also cut out the (8) fin covers, and folded/creased them per the instructions. The built up fins have a lot of small pieces, but I'm looking forward to building them.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd96/BoosterDude/Semroc%20S1B%20Build/S1BFinCovers.jpg

[bguffer]

This picture is of the newly installed upper transition. I had no issues with building the transition piece, or installing it on the rocket. I didn't follow the instructions exactly because I found it easier to install the transition bulkhead on the rocket first. Then I slid the transition down the parachute tube where it joined the BT100.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd96/BoosterDude/S1BUpperTransition.jpg

I also cut out the (8) fin covers, and folded/creased them per the instructions. The built up fins have a lot of small pieces, but I'm looking forward to building them.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd96/BoosterDude/S1BFinCovers.jpg

Cannot see the pictures.

[dwmzmm]

Cannot see the pictures.

Well, maybe you can see the pics of my completed Estes vintage (K-29)
Saturn 1-B :D !!

[FatBoy]

It looks great, Dave. What did you use on the Service Module to get that metallic look?

[dwmzmm]

It looks great, Dave. What did you use on the Service Module to get that metallic look?

Same thing I used on the SEMROC Saturn 1-B build last Fall for the Apollo - 7
Celebration; chrome monokote adhesive from BMS. Also used it on my Estes
K-36 Saturn - V Service Module not too long ago :D.

[Fred22]

This picture is of the newly installed upper transition. I had no issues with building the transition piece, or installing it on the rocket. I didn't follow the instructions exactly because I found it easier to install the transition bulkhead on the rocket first. Then I slid the transition down the parachute tube where it joined the BT100.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd96/BoosterDude/Semroc%20S1B%20Build/S1BUpperTransition.jpg

I also cut out the (8) fin covers, and folded/creased them per the instructions. The built up fins have a lot of small pieces, but I'm looking forward to building them.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd96/BoosterDude/Semroc%20S1B%20Build/S1BFinCovers.jpg
Hi John,
Your photos are showing a great build. I see real craftsmanship in how you are doing this. Please post more photos :) I really like the way this kit goes together.
Cheers
fred

[Night Tripper]

Same thing I used on the SEMROC Saturn 1-B build last Fall for the Apollo - 7
Celebration; chrome monokote adhesive from BMS. Also used it on my Estes
K-36 Saturn - V Service Module not too long ago :D.

It looks great. Parden my newbieness. But, where or who is BMS?

I've got a Semroc 1B still in the box, awaiting my completion of a bathroom remodeling project.

[tonypv]

It looks great. Parden my newbieness. But, where or who is BMS?


Balsa Machining Service (http://www.balsamachining.com/)

[lessgravity]

I'm looking forward to seeing this at an upcoming launch. I've been staring at my box for well over a year but just not ready to build it yet. I'm not sure what I'm waiting for but I'm sure that moment will come. It will be nice to review your build pictures before proceeding.

[Night Tripper]

Balsa Machining Service (http://www.balsamachining.com/)

Thanks!

[luke strawwalker]

These are just some general pictures of the progress I made last night. The tanks have been primed with two coats. I'm planning on having the tanks completely painted before installing them. The capsule is the one from Apogee which is also totally awesome. This is a great building project.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd96/BoosterDude/Semroc%20S1B%20Build/S1B_StufferTubeandTanks.jpg

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd96/BoosterDude/Semroc%20S1B%20Build/S1B_ChuteTubeandShockCord.jpg

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd96/BoosterDude/Semroc%20S1B%20Build/S1B_UpperBT100Installed.jpg

Ok, you stink!!! :D Having such a nice, clean, organized workshop, with decals on the doors even... :cool:

How can you get ANYTHING done in there??;)

Have a good one! OL JR

[dwmzmm]

Ok, got more stuff done on my vintage Estes K-29 model tonight; made the
"flight" version dummy nozzles that will be used when my Saturn 1-B takes to
the air.

Pics below: First shows the two interchangable nozzle sections (flight & display). I painted the four flight version nozzles steel/silver as I'm sure they'll get some exhaust debris from the four engine cluster during flight (can
always repaint them as needed).

[Fred22]

Dave how many engines were on the real one and do you think it could be done? Your build by the way it's usual museum quality standard :)
Cheers
fred

[dwmzmm]

Dave how many engines were on the real one and do you think it could be done? Your build by the way it's usual museum quality standard :)
Cheers
fred


Fred, are you talking about an 8 engine cluster?! Probably on my next 1/70
Saturn 1-B build (SEMROC), I'll work out a way to do that, now that we have
the new Q2G2 igniters to "assist" in the ignition. The four inboards can use
the standard C6's, and the four outboards the A10-PT's.

Thanks for the compliments, but if you'd saw my model up close (and in person), the build is really just about "average," not really a museum quality
type. :( If you were to see the finished product of someone like John Pursley's 1/12 scale Mercury Redstone, THAT is a superb museum quality build! Those who are members of this forum that have seen his model know
what I'm talking about......:cool:

[Boosterdude]

Wow, been a while. As an update, I have all the tank tubes filled, primed, and painted. The fins are built, and primed but still need alot of work. The fins slowed me down because I really don't like the way they're built. They seem weak, and they're very hard to keep straight, but I'll get them looking good.

I called Apogee to see about buying a set of his cast resin fins that he sells with his kit, but he doesn't sell them separate. Makes no sense to me considering the Semroc kit and the Apogee kit are priced in such different catagories, but what can you do.

I'll post some pictures later tonight.

[WOOSHPREZ]

I built mine to take the 24mm. motor to make it easier to fly it.
I still had butterflies that felt like hummingbirds when I flew it last year.
An E18-4 was perfect. The rocket flew straight and true, turned over at apogee, pointed it's nose down and ejected the laundry. I shot video of the flight which turned out crummy because I was watching rather than filming but the audio is worth it.
Here's a picture of it on the pad.
SG

[bguffer]

Wow, been a while. As an update, I have all the tank tubes filled, primed, and painted. The fins are built, and primed but still need alot of work. The fins slowed me down because I really don't like the way they're built. They seem weak, and they're very hard to keep straight, but I'll get them looking good.

I called Apogee to see about buying a set of his cast resin fins that he sells with his kit, but he doesn't sell them separate. Makes no sense to me considering the Semroc kit and the Apogee kit are priced in such different catagories, but what can you do.

I'll post some pictures later tonight.

I was concerned about fin strength as well. I strengthened the fins at 8:23 on this video:
ZOq3hQrqwH0
With my modded fins glued onto the airframe they feel very sturdy. Launched twice on 4xE9 cluster. One launch the rocket descended too quickly and broke three fins off from the airframe, but the fins themselves did not break.

[Boosterdude]

Good to know the fins hold up well. Here is a pic of the built and primed fins. Still some final filling and sanding, but they're getting there.
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd96/BoosterDude/Saturn1BPrimedFins.jpg

Not a great pic, but here are the completed tanks that are painted....all eight of them!
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd96/BoosterDude/Saturn1BPaintedTanks.jpg

[Boosterdude]

Well I'm finally making some progress on the 1B, to many projects going on simultaneously. At this point all of the wraps, and transitions have been installed. The wraps were actually very easy using 30min epoxy spread on thin. A few pieces of tape were used to pull and align the wraps. After the tape I used #64 rubber bands to hold them tight.

The lower fairing shroud was tough. It's hard to get it to look right, or should I say to blend it with the tanks. It might be easy if this piece was made from a thin plastic sheet instead of paper.

So at this point I'm doing some final filling, sanding, and need to make some small fillets around the fins to close the gaps. After that it will be ready to paint the white base coat. I'm also building all of the scale details which is something I really enjoy. This is a really cool build, and I must say an excellent value from Semroc.

Can't wait to see it finished, and fly it! With scale r/c airplanes we have a saying a scale model is never really done, you just stop working on it. I think the same applies here.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd96/BoosterDude/Semroc%20S1B%20Build/DSC00128.jpg

[chanstevens]

I called Apogee to see about buying a set of his cast resin fins that he sells with his kit, but he doesn't sell them separate. Makes no sense to me considering the Semroc kit and the Apogee kit are priced in such different catagories, but what can you do.

I talked to Tim about this last fall when we were doing a bunch of these for the Apollo 7 celebration. His reason is pretty simple--he makes pretty good profit selling the Saturn kits, and he can get those prices because he's the only game in town for several critical parts. If he started selling the parts on their own, he'd lose a bunch of kit business to folks who wanted to Apogee-ize a competitors kit. He also invested a big chunk of money into tooling for those parts, and it's a whole lot easier to pay that off by selling kits with $100+ of profit than by selling off parts at $5-10 profit, even. He'd have to charge some pretty insulting piece prices to make up for the net profit difference.

The capsule/tower and the vacu-form wraps are about the only individual parts you can get.

That said, I have bought a fair number of parts, including the cast resin fins, for his Saturns but basically just as replacement parts for flight damage, and I've had to do that contacting them directly. I suspect my account is flagged there as a significant/repeat customer ;).

[Boosterdude]

Might be the longest build thread ever, sorry about that. Here's an update of my Saturn 1B build. Getting much closer now, I have a few more details to add to the upper part of the booster. Then of course painting the fuel tanks and fin can. I'm using the Apogee capsule so thats easy. Great looking rocket to model. This is a really fun project, nothing really tough to build it just takes some time.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd96/BoosterDude/Semroc%20S1B%20Build/DSC00164.jpg

[Boosterdude]

Well I saw Inflight's build thread and decided it's time to get mine finished. Getting ridiculous and embarrassing, :confused2:.

So today I finished sanding the fin can and got it painted white, that only took 4 months! Time to paint the black markings on the fin can and it's almost done. This is one of the Skylab missions so the tanks stay white.

So thanks to Ray for giving me a kick in the butt.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd96/BoosterDude/Semroc%20S1B%20Build/DSC00185-1.jpg

[InFlight]

Hey, looking great, John!

.

[Boosterdude]

Here's today's update, I completed the fin can painting and applied some more decals.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd96/BoosterDude/DSC00188.jpg

[Fred22]

Here's today's update, I completed the fin can painting and applied some more decals.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd96/BoosterDude/DSC00188.jpg

CSM metal finish is amazing:) What about the tower? Are you going to be a real man and fly it with the tower on lol
Cheers
fred

[Boosterdude]

Heck yes, the only way this one flies is with the tower. Just doesn't look right without it.

[Boosterdude]

Well I knew I would finish it one day, only took a year. It's done ready to fly next month at the club fly hopefully.

Overall the kit is fantastic and I enjoyed building it. Scale models are always the most enjoyable projects. I built this one with one 24mm mount to use reloads, most likely an E18-4 for the first flight. I used the Apogee Capsule which has a ton of detail and is very reasonably priced for what you get. Ready to fly weight is 10.5oz which feels light for the size of the rocket. Semroc produces a lot of kit for the money and I'm sure I'll build more of them. I used one of Sandman's Apollo Service Module Wraps which worked perfectly.

Next up is a Apogee Saturn V!

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd96/BoosterDude/IMG_0973.jpg

[Boosterdude]

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd96/BoosterDude/IMG_0975.jpg

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd96/BoosterDude/IMG_0976.jpg

[Fred22]

Great looking rocket and time is irrelevant IMO. Are you gonna het your boy to mash the button on the first launch for it:)
Cheers
fred

[sandman]

I do like the chrome Service Module wrap!

I wasn't sure it would look right compared to the plain silver but I LIKE IT!!!:D

[MaxQ]

I do like the chrome Service Module wrap!

I wasn't sure it would look right compared to the plain silver but I LIKE IT!!!:D


Gorgeous...really fine wokmanship.
I have the Semroc kit...sitting in a box.

What other aftermarket add ons are needed to replicate this...?

[Boosterdude]

Thanks MaxQ!

The only aftermarket items used are the following:

1. Apogee Capsule, this kit includes the reaction control thrusters mounted on the service module.

2. Service Module wrap from Sandman.

3. Kevlar Shock cord.

[sandman]

I think I need to order more chrome ink.:eek:

[MaxQ]

Thanks MaxQ!

The only aftermarket items used are the following:

1. Apogee Capsule, this kit includes the reaction control thrusters mounted on the service module.

2. Service Module wrap from Sandman.

3. Kevlar Shock cord.

Looking at yours I'm inspired to build mine...
The Apollo capsule is very nice...I built a Semroc Apollo Little Joe II which includes the Semroc capsule kit...and I did not think this was the stock capsule...and I haven't seen the Apogeee close up...the blast cover in the picture appears to be more like a vacuform piece or a plastic kit blast cover...adds a real nice touch.

[sandman]

The Apogee capsule is freakin' sweet!

Very very accurate!