Wadding Alternatives?

[rocketman]

I've got my first club launch tomorrow-and I've just realised that I have lost all my wadding:bangpan::bang:.
So, are there any alternatives to the estes wadding-or will I have to try to borrow some off a club member?

Tom

[WillMarchant]

I've seen people use "dog barf" which is treated *cellulose* insulation used in buildings. Don't use anything fiberglass based as it isn't environmentally sound. You can buy an enormous bale for a few dollars. You'll then spend the next year or two trying to give it away to your rocket buddies. :D

[gpoehlein]

A couple of other alternatives I've heard people here use (I haven't so this is just heresay):

* Decorative Poms (these things are fire retardent squares of tissue paper sold for decorating floats - I've seen them advertised online and at Blick's Art Supplies)

* Toilet tissue soaked in Borax (homemade version of Estes wadding - the Borax makes it fire resistant).

* Leaf Lettuce - the ultimate in biodegradeable wadding and the high moisture content keeps it from burning.

* Recovery Pistons and Baffles - permanent solution that has to be installed in each rocket and is custom designed for said rocket.

(I take it back - I HAVE used baffles before and they do work)

[Peartree]

Lately we've been using recycled/leftover party steamers (crepe paper). After someone's birthday we just bag 'em and take them to the rocket lab.

[Silverfish]

Try these: http://www.rocketstore.co.uk/shop/product.asp?numRecordPosition=3&P_ID=335&strPageHistory=cat&strKeywords=&SearchFor=&PT_ID=81

They are small squares of nomex that your parachute is wrapped up in. They have a small hole in one corner for the shock cord to attach to, and the best bit is they are PERMANENT! You will never need to put one piece of wadding in your rocket again :) All of my rockets now have these installed, and I haven't had one burnt chute :D (I also use rip-stop nylon chutes, as they are far better wearing and more durable than the crummy plastic things most kits come with).

Hope this helps

Silverfish

[quickburst]

I saw a guy use grass.

Readily available, cheap, environmentally safe, fire proof, organic, renewable resource and it worked like a charm. I suppose it would also act as a fertilizer as it decomposes.

Be sure its green, not brown. I suppose green leaves would work as well.

[The EGE]

I saw a guy use grass.

Readily available, cheap, environmentally safe, fire proof, organic, renewable resource and it worked like a charm. I suppose it would also act as a fertilizer as it decomposes.

Be sure its green, not brown. I suppose green leaves would work as well.

I need to try this. I heard some HPR guys use lettuce, too...

[rocketman]

I need to try this. I heard some HPR guys use lettuce, too...

lettuce?!!!

Are you sure it's safe?
If so, then this could well be my choice.

[New Ocean]

lettuce?!!!

Are you sure it's safe?
If so, then this could well be my choice.


It does work but for very small rockets it may be too stiff, and may get jammed in the rocket. You can always borrow wadding at a launch, people usually have too much.

[Bazookadale]

lettuce?!!!

Are you sure it's safe?
If so, then this could well be my choice.
I prefer cabbage but lettuce will work too

[dave carver]

Lately we've been using recycled/leftover party steamers (crepe paper). After someone's birthday we just bag 'em and take them to the rocket lab.


I have to second Crepe' Paper. It's fireproof and it comes in rolls or sheet. Crumple it up real good then re-expand then stuff it in. Quite a few of my rockets the wadding never comes out so I stuff it back in and reuse it:cyclops:

[sunward]

As suggested:
baffles (http://sunward1.com/baffles.htm)
NOMEX flame resistant blankets (http://sunward1.com/nblanket.htm)

[sunward]

As you are overseas:
baffles (http://www.modelrockets.co.uk/shop/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=baffle&x=0&y=0)

[AstronMike]

I need to try this. I heard some HPR guys use lettuce, too...

Great, now I know what I can do with all those stinkin' collard greens Im fixing to be overrun with from my garden. Planted them although I cant stand them, now no one wants any......:bangpan:

[luke strawwalker]

It does work but for very small rockets it may be too stiff, and may get jammed in the rocket. You can always borrow wadding at a launch, people usually have too much.

For small rockets you want to switch to cole slaw... LOL:)

Seriously, though, breaking up the lettuce into a handful of loose 'pieces" (like a salad) should keep it from jamming... but make sure that it forms a long enough wad to keep the particles away from the chute... OL JR :)

[rstaff3]

While we're discussing veggies, it seems a properly sized floret of broccoli might form a decent baffle :o

[powderburner]

While we're discussing veggies, it seems a properly sized floret of broccoli might form a decent baffle :o

Which raises the question (broccoli being a gas generator on its own), exactly what and where are you baffling?

[Gillard]

lettice and cabbage as wadding, i like the idea and will give it a try at my next high power launch. thanks for the tip.

[Larry Curcio]

I have to second Crepe' Paper. It's fireproof and it comes in rolls or sheet. Crumple it up real good then re-expand then stuff it in. Quite a few of my rockets the wadding never comes out so I stuff it back in and reuse it:cyclops:

I third it. Get yer crepe paper at the dollar store - 2 rolls for a buck.

[Micromeister]

another it 1/2" or 3/4" Teflon Plumbers tape. As permanent wadding in the form of teflon tape "Pom-Poms" 12" long straps of tape are tied with a short length of kevlar line. These pom-poms generally outlast the model and can be reused in other models. I generally use one in models BT-5 to 50, 2 in BT-55- BT60 and 3 in BT-70-BT-80 sizes tied to the shockcord.
After each flight simply shake them out, reapply some talc baby powder and they're good to go again.

[hcmbanjo]

"I saw a guy use grass."

Thanks Quickburst - I don't know why, but just that one line struck me as funny. I actually laughed out loud! (And no I don't use the LOL abbreviation, even though I just did.)

[EgbrtV]

Another vote for the crepe paper 2" rolls. I buy it in shades of green so it's never seen in the grass before it is mowed up and decomposes.

Caution: If buying sheets instead of rolls, test it first. Many party decor and gift wrapping sheets that look like crepe paper are NOT fire retardant.

[rstaff3]

Which raises the question (broccoli being a gas generator on its own), exactly what and where are you baffling?

Unfortunately, the resulting emissions are invisible but not odorless...exactly opposite of what you want for rocketry.:confused2:

[rocketman]

Thanks for the helpful, creative, and wacky replies everyone! Sadly, the launch on Sunday was cancelled :(, but it gives me time to invest in a large roll of crepe paper!


Thanks again everyone,

Tom:cheers:

[stanbajacal]

It's got to be cabbage, if it is good enough to cool off Babe Ruth's melon,:)it must be good enough for us.

[MarkII]

I saw a guy use grass.

Readily available, cheap, environmentally safe, fire proof, organic, renewable resource and it worked like a charm. I suppose it would also act as a fertilizer as it decomposes.

Be sure its green, not brown. I suppose green leaves would work as well.Green grass is hard to find underneath the snow. ;) Seriously, pick yourself up a head of iceberg lettuce or a head of cabbage. The water content in the leaves provides excellent fire resistance; the leaves of these two vegetables hold much more water than do the leaves from deciduous trees. It is the easiest recovery wadding to get when you are pressed for time, like when you are on your way to a launch and suddenly realize, "OMG, I don't have any wadding!" :D

Besides Estes, the other major producer of flameproof recovery wadding is Quest Aerospace. Dog barf is undoubtedly the most popular type of disposable recovery wadding in use by experienced rocketeers, though. Kevlar and Nomex blankets are also extremely popular, because they work well and can be reused dozens of times. (Kevlar blankets can potentially be reused hundreds of times.) But the method that I use most often is a baffle from Semroc. I have them installed in several of my rockets, and I have never even gotten so much as a spot of soot on any of my parachutes in those rockets. I coat the baffles with a thin layer of epoxy before I install them in order to make them more durable. I place my completely unprotected nylon parachutes above my Semroc baffles with absolute confidence that they will still be pristine when I recover the rocket.

MarkII

[MarkII]

For small rockets you want to switch to cole slaw... LOL:) I was thinking of brussels sprouts. :D

MarkII

[MarkII]

While we're discussing veggies, it seems a properly sized floret of broccoli might form a decent baffle :oWith the thick stems (even on the branches), it might be kind of heavy, though. It might also be hard to create a good gas seal with it. (Insert joke here.)

I wonder if you could use a section of corncob (without the kernels) as a piston?

MarkII

[luke strawwalker]

Hmmm... corncobs would smolder quite efficiently so I don't necessarily think that's a good idea... farmers typically used to keep two pails of corncobs in the house-- one by the woodheater for 'fire starters' and another in the bathroom, for, well, other reasons... :p

As a farmer/rancher who provides his farm to the local club (Challenger 498) I really prefer dog barf if one chooses to use paper wadding, which probably accounts for 98% of all flights... (never seen anybody use vegetation first hand). I don't oppose using 'toilet paper' sheet wadding (Estes wadding), in fact in my high school days when the whole place was plowed up and cotton fields, I typically used regular toilet paper since there was virtually NO fire risk landing on bare dirt). However, sheet wadding does come down in unsightly 'litter' lying about on the field, and is slow to decompose. Dog barf settles through the grass to the soil surface and is rapidly broken down with the next rain... sheet wadding tends to stay up off the ground and survive a few rains before it starts to disintegrate.

But, then again, I get some 'free wadding' roaming around the pastures picking it up after a launch, which you don't get with dog barf... :) Neither one bothers me in the least-- it's actually a fertilizer since our soils (as are most in the US) are deficient of boron, an essential micronutrient.

Of course for those going green, the leaf lettuce surely is the lowest environmental impact and is readily decomposed or eaten (if the animal in question can get past the sulfur stink).

Later! OL JR :)

PS.... NEVER use fiberglass insulation like some folks were thoughtlessly doing a few years back... that stuff NEVER disintegrates... OL JR :)

[dragon_rider10]

Question re: PomPoms, are these attached to the tube somehow? How do you keep them from ejecting and being lost?

Input on wadding alternative: DO NOT use dryer lint. Bright idea I had one day. My girl scout wife scolded me. It's extremely flammable (they used it to start campfires.)

Tip 1: Always keep your wife around when flying rockets.

[luke strawwalker]

Question re: PomPoms, are these attached to the tube somehow? How do you keep them from ejecting and being lost?

Input on wadding alternative: DO NOT use dryer lint. Bright idea I had one day. My girl scout wife scolded me. It's extremely flammable (they used it to start campfires.)

Tip 1: Always keep your wife around when flying rockets.

Robbing the cradle aren't ya?? (grins)

"Well, she LOOKED 18 officer... " LOL:)

J/K

Later! OL JR :)

edit PS... I think they're attached to the shock cord... (the pom-poms, that is...)

PPS... hmmm... pom-poms... don't get me started on cheerleaders... LOL:)

[Micromeister]

Question re: PomPoms, are these attached to the tube somehow? How do you keep them from ejecting and being lost?

Input on wadding alternative: DO NOT use dryer lint. Bright idea I had one day. My girl scout wife scolded me. It's extremely flammable (they used it to start campfires.)

Tip 1: Always keep your wife around when flying rockets.


Teflon Tape Pom-Poms are attached to the shockcord below the recovery streamer or chute. I geneally tie a second butterfly knot 6 t0 8" below all other recovery system attachments this keeps them out of the way during deployment.


Your certainly correct about drier lint, it's one of the ingredients Boy Scouts use when making fire bugs (fire starters) it's an extremely flammable mixture of fluffed shreaded fabric bits. NOT at all suitable for recovery wadding.

[dragon_rider10]

Robbing the cradle aren't ya?? (grins)

"Well, she LOOKED 18 officer... " LOL:)

J/K

Later! OL JR :)

edit PS... I think they're attached to the shock cord... (the pom-poms, that is...)

PPS... hmmm... pom-poms... don't get me started on cheerleaders... LOL:)

Let me please clarify. "My wife who was formerly a girl scout."

[luke strawwalker]

Let me please clarify. "My wife who was formerly a girl scout."

LOL:) :merry-christmas::tree::candy::snowflake: OL JR :)

[fxrs]

Robbing the cradle aren't ya?? (grins)

"Well, she LOOKED 18 officer... " LOL:)

J/K

Later! OL JR :)

edit PS... I think they're attached to the shock cord... (the pom-poms, that is...)

PPS... hmmm... pom-poms... don't get me started on cheerleaders... LOL:)

Now this one I did laugh out loud. Being the father of a boy scout and
active with the troop, I though his wife helped the girl scouts.
I have always been attracted to younger women, I'm 52 and my
wife is 46. That makes the she looked 18 officer funny. Now what
if al gore finds out people are burning gaseous vegetables?
How big of a carbon foot print is burning broccoli ? How long untill
the spent gases from a rocket launch will be declared a man caused
greenhouse climate changing global warming event? If we could
only find some competent scientist to look into this.

[RocketT.Coyote]

For the larger diameter rockets like the Maxi-V2 and TLP Scud B I make a chute protector from Totally Tubular nomex paper square with cuts halfway to the center and a hole punched in a corner (line with looseleaf reinforcers) to tether to the shockline. When inserted into the airframe, the cuts overlap and the nomex paper forms a cup in which your carefully-folded parachute is placed.
:tree:

[luke strawwalker]

For the larger diameter rockets like the Maxi-V2 and TLP Scud B I make a chute protector from Totally Tubular nomex paper square with cuts halfway to the center and a hole punched in a corner (line with looseleaf reinforcers) to tether to the shockline. When inserted into the airframe, the cuts overlap and the nomex paper forms a cup in which your carefully-folded parachute is placed.
:tree:

A friend of mine does magic tricks suggested I use flash paper... I'm going to try it in my next rocket... :)

Later! OL JR :) :snowflake::happydeer::hohoho::tree::merry-christmas:

[gpoehlein]

A friend of mine does magic tricks suggested I use flash paper... I'm going to try it in my next rocket... :)

Later! OL JR :) :snowflake::happydeer::hohoho::tree::merry-christmas:

Please note my signature... :p

[luke strawwalker]

Please note my signature... :p

I KNEW I saw that somewhere... LOL:)

Merry Everything... :) OL JR :) :candy::tree::present::grinch:

[Micromeister]

I KNEW I saw that somewhere... LOL:)

Merry Everything... :) OL JR :) :candy::tree::present::grinch:

Or Corn-starch baby powders, to dust chutes or as tracking powder....much the same effect LOL!!!

[Pem Tech]

Let me please clarify. "My wife who was formerly a girl scout."


*whew*
OK, we can all breath easy...
"HEY TRUDY! You can stop looking on the Sex-offender data base now!"
:hohoho:

[luke strawwalker]

Or Corn-starch baby powders, to dust chutes or as tracking powder....much the same effect LOL!!!

I used to use regular self-rising flour for tracking powder... and I also had a launch pad I built in woodshop in junior high that had a 'flame tunnel' out to the side with a sheet of tin on bottom for a blast deflector... I used to dump a couple tablespoons of flour in there under the motor to get a big 'smoke cloud' at liftoff (dust cloud anyway, but it looks like a big smoke cloud). Looked pretty cool on video anyway.

Never had a 'dust explosion' but my 9th grade science teachere, Mr. Petrash, did a demo in class demonstrating the principle-- used an old Christmas cookie tin, with a 1/4 inch hole in the bottom, with some surgical tubing snaked through the hole with a funnel crammed in the end of it inside the tin, dumped in a teaspoon or so of flour, set a lit teacandle in the bottom of the tin, and closed the lid right quick, then blew a puff of air through the hose to make the flour dust get airborne... POW! The lid flies off trailing a fireball behind it, and flies across the room... WAY COOL!!!

Actually I wouldn't have minded seeing a rocket blow up from a dust explosion... at ejection anyway... that would have been cool to see just once... never happened though...

(note: I'm NOT recommending the practice, just reporting history.)

Later! OL JR :)

[gpoehlein]

I used to use regular self-rising flour for tracking powder... and I also had a launch pad I built in woodshop in junior high that had a 'flame tunnel' out to the side with a sheet of tin on bottom for a blast deflector... I used to dump a couple tablespoons of flour in there under the motor to get a big 'smoke cloud' at liftoff (dust cloud anyway, but it looks like a big smoke cloud). Looked pretty cool on video anyway.

Never had a 'dust explosion' but my 9th grade science teachere, Mr. Petrash, did a demo in class demonstrating the principle-- used an old Christmas cookie tin, with a 1/4 inch hole in the bottom, with some surgical tubing snaked through the hole with a funnel crammed in the end of it inside the tin, dumped in a teaspoon or so of flour, set a lit teacandle in the bottom of the tin, and closed the lid right quick, then blew a puff of air through the hose to make the flour dust get airborne... POW! The lid flies off trailing a fireball behind it, and flies across the room... WAY COOL!!!

Actually I wouldn't have minded seeing a rocket blow up from a dust explosion... at ejection anyway... that would have been cool to see just once... never happened though...

(note: I'm NOT recommending the practice, just reporting history.)

Later! OL JR :)

The Mythbusters did something similar on a larger scale - it was a very impressive fireball. Then they ramped it up using dry milk powder/coffee creamer. Man, that stuff was really insanely flammable!!! :y: Cool episode tho...

[Daddyisabar]

Just opened my Das Model Vostok and the kit comes with it own pack of German Wadding - it looks like pillow bunting - or stuffing. It must be fireproof and reusable if you find it, but I doubt its biodegradable – a big no-no for all the Al Gore fans at the launch who claim future archeologists will just find a large layer of plastic when excavating late 20th Century sites. I would try to use it once but I just can’t read the directions on the package. Frankly, I expected more from the country with a strong Green Party presence like Germany.

[luke strawwalker]

The Mythbusters did something similar on a larger scale - it was a very impressive fireball. Then they ramped it up using dry milk powder/coffee creamer. Man, that stuff was really insanely flammable!!! :y: Cool episode tho...

Hmmmm... :dark: That's good to know... OL JR :)

[ScrapDaddy]

By any chance would double baffling work like one baffle on top o another?

[ScrapDaddy]

Would stacking them increase life

[MarkII]

I'm sure that this has been mentioned before, but a well-designed single baffle is quite effective as an alternative to using wadding. My concerns with installing two baffles, aside from being unnecessary, are that the combination would greatly restrict the amount of ejection gas traveling up to the recovery system with very real possibility that it would cause a deployment failure, and also that two stacked baffles would take up a good deal of space inside the airframe. If the design of a single baffle isn't effective, then adding a second unit with the same design will probably not help very much. The answer is to redesign the baffle unit so that it is more effective. There are a few different baffle designs that have proven themselves to be quite capable of preventing heat damage to the recovery system. Various rocket companies also produce baffle kits that employ these designs and come in an assortment of sizes to fit into various standard body tubes, and they all work very well.

As for adding durability, several methods have already been mentioned. Plus, if your rocket lasts long enough (and hasn't drifted away) for the baffle to wear out from too many launches, consider yourself to be very lucky. You should show your gratitude by retiring that old warhorse to a prominent place of honor on your shelf!

MarkII

[vdotmatrix]

I went to a NOVAAR launch yesterday on one guys and his kids used stainless steel wool as permanent wadding that actually stayed in the tube. Has anyone heard of or can point me in the right direction for this technique.

I like the Teflon POM-POM idea permanently attached to the shock cord.

cheers

[dave carver]

Look no further than Aerotech rockets. Having the scrubber pad further up towards the top is a good idea. The further away from the ejection charge the better. LOC has a steel wire mesh baffle that I've used. I think it's a better mesh to use than the dish sink type though.

[MarkII]

A stainless steel Chore Boy-style pot scrubber, stretched open and fluffed up a bit, can be used within a baffle-type assembly if you remove it and shake it out or completely replace it periodically. It is the stainless steel type that you want, not the brass one. But never use steel wool - it is flammable!

[El Cheapo]

Its almost Halloween. Even grocery stores are carrying bags of spider webs. Its non-flammable but not biodegradeable so make sure to permanently tie it off to the shock cord or nose cone.