BSD Horizon or Sprint, or PML Callisto?

Well after a little over a year of low and mid power stuff, all of a sudden the last 24 hours i've been bitten hard by the idea of maybe doing some high power stuff.

I'm looking at the BSD Horizon and Sprint in a 3" body tube, or maybe a PML Callisto.

I want to stay with the slightly smaller stuff for now so that I can still fly 29mm for the small fields I have available. The majority of my flying in a year is in smaller fields.

Has anyone built the 3" Horizon or the Sprint, I'm looking for an accurate weight on a completed rocket as their website is pretty vague on the weights.

I'd like to have something that an AT F20 or F25 could lift for smaller fields, yet something that if I do decide to go level one can make the certification attempt for me.

The Callisto comes into the mix as I'd like to try the piston ejection system they use and I hear the quality of their parts are unsurpassed.

As far as looks go right now I really like the Sprint, but other than that the three seem pretty well tied on my list. Will probably order one or the other in the next day or two.

Any suggestions on what you guys think will fit my wants the best....?

Thanks

Jason

I'll put in my $0.02 on the Callisto.

This is a nice rocket. You'll still get 1000' feet or better on the F motors and it can take the pounding of an H or I if you're feeling pretty gutsy. I got my level 1 on it with an H128.

The Quantum Tube and fiberglass fins make it easy to get a really nice looking rocket without spending your life filling and sanding. Plus these materials are TOUGH, which makes the rocket very durable.

I really like my Callisto, so much so that last fall I repainted it because it was showing some wear and tear from many, many flights. Nothing structural, though, just cosmetic. I even built a matching payload bay for it and can now fly it dual deployment.

As with all PML/QT rockets: 1) follow the directions on sanding epoxy joints A LOT; and, 2) QT shrinks, so if you fly when it is cold, the piston and couplers can get stuck.

HTH, --Lance.

I'd go with the Callisto on that list, as I'm hoping to pick one of those up fairly soon as well. My only concern with using it for a cert is that altitude. If you're concerned with the size of the field, make sure the altitude on the Callisto won't be too much. I'm using a Small Endeavour for my cert 1 as it can fly on G's, and an H238 takes it just above 2000 feet, which I think is a good altitude for a cert flight. I think an H128 is somewhere around 1800 feet or so, which is also nice. Easy to see, shouldn't drift three miles away...

Loopy

I've got a 38mm Callisto, 4" Horizon and older 2.6" Sprint.

Haven't built the Sprint yet, gonna bash it into a 2-stage.

The Horizon was my Level 1 and I've modded it since then. flown it on a variety of 29 and 38mm motors, including J350 for L2. Construction is simple and solid and I'd expect the same from the 3" version.

The weight on the BSD kits will be highly variable depending on construction. How liberal are you w/ the epoxy in general? Gonna run internal fillets? Maybe glass the internal joints? (I did). Gonna use the supplied hardware, or some of your own? (I replaced shock cord and 'chute). Gonna just shoot it w/ primer, or 3 coats of primer, 3 color coats and 2 clear (then wax... )?If you want to fly it on smaller motors, build and load it light and you should be fine, but it might not take the abuse of something w/ more "oomph".

The Callisto is a great kit and less variable as far as construction goes. I've flown it from on most of the AT 29mm motors, from G64 on up to H238 (fun!). Haven't flown it on a 38 yet, am waiting for a day when I want a LOT of excercise. I've seen one flown on an I195 and a I357. I don't use the piston. It's a tough bird, very durable.

If you want to fly on small motors, you might also want to look at the Callisto's little brother, the IO as well. It'll weigh even less, but still take the abuse.

I'd say you'll be fine w/ either the 3" Horizon or the Callisto. The Callisto is an easier build and more durable. The Horizon more "traditional" and open to modification depeding on the way you build.

Something else to consider if you want to make HP flights on small fields is to get something big and fat (LOC MinnieMag??) that you can fly on HP motors, but that won't hit high altitudes.

FWIW,
-bill

Thanks for the replies so far guys.

Anytime I'm making high power flights i'll be at organized launches with plenty of field.

When not at a launch I still want to be able to launch the rocket on smaller fields on the 29mm stuff.

Right now i'm leaning toward the 3" Horizon the most, and somewhat considering it in the 4" version, would then use the G motors on small local fields and fly high power at launches.

I won't do any glassing, but will probably run internal and external fillets on the fins.

Again if I didn't make it clear earlier the main duty will be to fly on 29mm motors on small fields, with the option of having a high power bird for organized launches the few times I make it to one.

Jason

ps. the callisto isn't out, i want a pml kit, if i go with a bsd kit the callisto will just be delayed.

I wouldn't recommend the 4" Horizon. You'll have to build it pretty light to get acceptable flights on a G64. I know what the BSD says, but I wouldn't fly mine on a G64 and RS shows sketchy velocity off the pad on that motor.

See if you can talk to someone who's actually flown one on that motor before you go that way....

My $.02
-bill

One point of clarification. You said "the 29mm stuff". Are you referring to the model rocket loads (29/40-120 case) or the RMS loads? (H128,H180,H220,H238, etc..). It's a pretty big range depending on what you mean....

-bill

Model rocket loads.....mainly.

I've yet to acquire an RMS. Basically hoping for a rocket that will fly in small fields on an F20 or F25... of course that puts me back to the 3" Horizon or Sprint. Again would also depend on finished weight etc..

Jason

I loaded a 29mm PML Callisto into RockSim, and it predicted that altitudes for an F20 or F25 would be around 1,100 ft. That's not too bad for a small field.

PML's Quantum tubing and G10 fins make for one tough bird!

If the Horizon weighs anything like a LOC EZI (I think the Horizon would be lighter?), than the G64-4W would work. I flown my EZI, which was built heavy, with G64-4W on several occations with no problems.

Living here in New England, there are not that many places to fly rockets, so I try to keep them below 1000 ft on the small stuff, 2000 with the mid power, and 3000 with the H through J birds. These altitude limits for me are realistic because I loose site of the birds otherwise. And if they fly off the field... I will never be able to recover them.

Per the manufacturers' websites:

BSD Horizon 4" - 2 3/4#-> 3# (44->48 oz.)
LOC EZI-65 - 35oz (it was designed for the AT I65, hence the name... should be fine on an x64)

If you wanna go LOC, you might wanna take a look at the EZI or Caliber ...

FWIW,
-bill

Well I went with both BSD kits, couldn't decide between the two I guess, at least that's what I told the Mrs.

Here's the Horizon, now completed.

<img src="https://members.aol.com/firemanup/horizon.jpg">


Jason

Jason, Your Horizon looks great. Your son looks like he is feeling quite proud of his father and his new rocket Good job!

Cutt~

firemanup,

great pic! you did a fine job on that rocket! heck, the dang thing is bigger than YOU!

hey folks, is it just me or does it seem like rocketeers are getting younger and younger every year????

His spell that he cast on himself is still working... give him a few hours

Great looking ship. You must video the first flight.

Well the Horizon is 3" by 38" and came in at 21 ounces.

Now the Sprint is done 3" by 58" and weighs in at 32 ounces.

Here it is

<img src="https://members.aol.com/rocketcollector/images/sprint5.jpg">

Jason

My money is on the BSD Horizon. Mark Saunders is great to work with and the kits have good instructions even if you don't have much experience. I chose the 4" Horizon for my Level 1 and plan to get my Level 2 with it also. I would expect the 3" version to be just as good. Attached is a picture of my Level 1 flight.