hybrid motors

If I decide to get into HPR, which hybrid motor should I buy? and how much would the motor cost?

I think the question really is one of which support equipment you have avalaible. Startup costs for hybrids are pretty steep if you don't have access to the equipment through your club. It sounds like Hypertek has a pretty good hold on the market right now, though.

Someone else will have more info, though. I have no experience with hybrids and I'm hoping to learn from what others have to say as well.

Well... it depends on what you want.

Hybrid motors range from the RATT Works H70 to the HyperTek M1040 in size, so that shouldn't be an issue.

If you want a huge range of available motors with some interchangeability and the fastest turn around times, then I would choose the HyperTek system. The GSE is a bit steep, but the system is sound and it works really well. The buzz is a neat feature of this as well.

If you want 29mm or 64mm hybrids, or plan to get into EX hybrids, then I would choose a RATT Works/Propulsion Polymers/West Coast Hybrids motor. These designs incorporate a U/C Valve which is the easiest method of ignition. These systems also have cheaper GSE than the HyperTek.

HyperTek motors have non-pyro ignition. RATT/PP/WCH motors don't. Both systems require you to have long motor mounts and drill vent holes at the right locations.

Bottom line: do a little research and decide which fits your application best. I love both systems, and I fly them both regularly. You can get more info at https://www.flyhybrids.com and at the respective manufacturer websites https://www.hypertekhybrids.com, https://www.rattworks.com, https://www.propulsionpolymers.com, and https://www.westcoasthybrids.com.

Fun, aye?

I personally have a Ratts Works H70 hybrid motor. You can read about it at https://www.gardei.com/Projects/Mirage/Mirage.html.


rstaff asked me today what I thought about the Homeland security crap ... my response was... hybrids are beginning to look very appealing to me.

Looks like my L3 will be using a hybrid Not the M1939 of my dreams

Hey, hybrids aren't all that bad! The Maxi-M from HyperTek has almost the same Ns as a M1939, but then again... you don't get the roar... or the smoke... or the low frequency rumbling... aw shucks, I just talked myself out of it

But hybrids are cool in their own right.

Kermie really posted the $10,000 question. Your choice really depends on how much you want to spend, where you are going to fly it, and what Ground Support Equipment (GSE) you already have available to you. Once you can answer those questions, then you can choose a motor.

Hey Guys,
Come on now. The Homeland Secruity act isn't that bad. I mean, I'm not promoting it but there are ways around it. Consider, it's only $100 for the LEUP which is like 1-2 launches worth in motors. The box is only $200 and if you can get someone else, like your dealer, to store them for you then you don't even need that.

David

"The box is only $200 and if you can get someone else, like your dealer, to store them for you then you don't even need that"

I am not sure that is allowed, and even if it is, not all dealers have a magazine. The closest dealer that I know of that has one is 200 miles away. Also, this may affect the ability of Aerotech shipping the motors to the dealer... I'm sure that won't stop them from shipping them, but it will most likely jack the price of shipping up there... Its bad enough paying $30 to ship a 38mm or BJ 29mm Easy Access load... but having to pay more than that for a mear D21.... Thats the worse case senerio... might not be that bad (but with the ATF and HSA, the nievity of these people MIGHT make it that bad).

Also that assumes I could get a permit... If what you said above fails... that would mean that my home is the only location I can store motors. I'll tell you right now... my house does not qualify... and my folks (I live in the basement) would not like ATF agents in the house, so even if my house met the minimun qualifications, it won't go by my folks...

I hope they get their acts together... pretty soon we may need to have regulations on kitchen knifes... relatively safe... but can still hurt someone in the wrong hands.

Well, I went off on a tangent... sry bought that.

Only $100.00...
Well, that might only be enough for 1 or 2 launches, but maybe that was all I could afford!
Only $200.00...
See above, and add, what if I don't have a outbuilding suitable to store the box, and what if I don't care to have Federales appearing at my home without a warrant and having a look around whenever they have a mind to!

Well, I see your points guys. For one, it is possible to have a dealer store the motors for you. It requires a speacial thing, I can't think of the name of it right now...I think it might be a variance letter. I'll check for you. I have the paper work for the LEUP right here...Dad is getting one. Basically, its a buy and burn policy with the backup of having the dealer store anything you don't use.

Second, in my case, we have a shed that we can put the box in
so that is not a problem and I really don't care how the neighbors feel about ATF agents walking around...too bad.

For those people who can only afford those E-G motors than this really does suck. That I will agree with. But, if you're willing to spend $150 on a rocket, then why not just get the LEUP and skip that next rocket for one year.

The $200 box is a bit pricy but if you belong to a club than why not have everyone pitch in to get an LEUP and box for one person and have everyone store theirs with him. I think this would work...maybe not...have more reading to do.

David

Doug,
Could I get Ryan's emaill address, he looks under 18, and could be in GYRO.

Hello all

The major draw back from hybrids is still the cost of GSE, we are currently working on this with our new Pyro-free coaxial fill stem and hope to be make a very pleasing announcement soon (hint hint, low Cost GSE!!!) Thanks for mentioning the company "daveyfire" every little bit helps, please check us out at https://www.westcoasthybrids.com , Cheer's Scott ...

Hybrids are the way to go, ...We need some EFX grains. I have been watching your site closely, in hopes we will here about your sparky/white smoke grains.

Currently I fly a R.A.T.T. Works I80, and all the Hypertek 54mm motor combos. I swapped fully over to Hybrids shortly after the Fire. At the time I was concidering it because the Solid prices were outrageous, and once the Fire totaled Aerotech, that pushed me full into Hybrids. Now that Aerotech is on the verge of coming back on line, the Homeland Security act may change even their future. All the more to go Hybrid Commercially. As for my Solid motor fix, I will continue to make my own from scratch. 8)

Johnnie

p.s. I'm a horrible speller...oh well

Hello Johnnie

I can see the pyrotechnic ignition sequence of my motors becoming a problem and individuals having trouble obtaining black powder with the new regulation being put into place in the States. Testing on the effects grains are coming along great and should be available soon. Tests on the new Pyro-free ignition sequence are coming along spectacular, with over a hundred motors tested and not a single miss-fire, I'm more than pleased.I think that with the addition of West Coasts Pyro-free coaxial fill stem to the hybrid market, this could also draw a few "solid lovers". The stem speeds the turn around process, adds a very reliable and simplistic ignition sequence, limits the amount of clean up, to almost nothing. Most important the GSE should be more affordable for the average "joe".

I've been thinking about getting a Hypertek motor system as well, on the premiss that there's usually Hypertek GSE at the Orangeburg launches.

The major costs as I see them; the motor system and electronics. Hybrids, as you well know, do not contain a means of recovery system deployment. The simplest electronic device to use would be a timer, but altimeters with deployment at apogee seem to be much more popular [as well as eliminating some of the guess work of calculating coast time].

Another "cost" would be a hybrid-ready rocket. I'm sure there are more than a few people on here who could share with us their knowledge of making an existing rocket hybrid-ready [extending the motor tube, sealing off the recovery area, installing a vent hole, installing an electronics bay, etc]. OTOH, there are a few rocket kits available on the market that you can build hybrid-ready.

As for me? The way I would like to go would be to modify a PML Ariel [not hybrid ready in stock kit form], and use dual-deployment. That's going to be a loooong ways off, though. I've still got a car to pay off...

gothique_97

I guess I forgot to mention that West Coasts new coaxial fill stem fill stem is fully compatible with Pratt M-RTLS or Hypertek GSE.

As far as making a rocket hybrid ready, if you check out the site there is more than a few ideas on the "Resource page" under "West Coast Vent Instruction" West Coast supplies a 1/8 tube that attaches to the vent and can be routed through the airframe, centering rings or taped to the side of a MMT.

With electronics involved in hybrids the simplest things I have seen used is the Magnetic Apogee Detection device, designed by Robert Galejs, and available at Aerocon systems. Cheer's Scott ...

The only problem I see with PML is the cost.

Here is my PML Endeavor, ready to yake flight on the new HyperTEK I222.

I bought this Bird as a replacement for my Public Enemy Extreme Preformer which shredded not moments ago due to an Altimeter failure on a HyperTEK J317. The endeavor was a cost od $106.00...ouch!!

The PE Estreme Performer was a Bargain at $56.00.

Most rockets with 54mm mounts can be Hybrid ready.

Johnnie

Here is my Performer on my L2...

Johnnie

Sorry so many posts, I can't figure out how to post more than one pic per post...

Here is a write up as posted on www.starrocketry.com:

HARA Sport Launch Ardmore, Alabama 27 March 1999. Johnnie Paul's Level 2 Certification flight on a Hypertek J300 (835cc with .172 orifice). Reached 4333' in altitude.

The J300 is the Old designation for the now well known J317

Johnnie

Hi Johnnie

I sure like the looks of the Public Enemy stuff too!! The 4" Predator rocket that clusters 3-38mm motors, Hummm? 3 - I-110 yikes!

Scott,

We need to talk, purple is my favorite color, as you can tell

I may have to auction off the RATT motor and send some spare change your way for that I110...

Johnnie

Johnnie

The new color is really nice! The other nice thing is once you have the internal components then will fit into the H & J cases. Cheer's Scott..

Hmmmm, this is sounding very interesting. I have the 300cc and the 440cc HyperTek system. I also have the micro-hybrid by Rene Caldera, which I haven't flown yet (but will real soon). I really am fascinated by hybrids. I may have to check into the West Coast Hybrids soon.