Leup's

So...what's the general consensus?

Those of you who've seen my thread on choosing an L1 kit know I'm ready to start building the big stuff. But while thinking it over I remembered that propellant access is changing in a BIG way this May thanks to the Homeland Security Act.

To be honest, I don't want to screw around with a LEUP, no matter how "easy" the gov't says they'll make it. It's one more expense/hassle I don't need just to join the HPR club.

At this point, I'm seriously considering putting off ANY HPR kit or motor purchases until this mess gets sorted out. If it comes to it, I'll just fly G motors for a couple more years, save my $$, and go hybrid when I'm ready for HPR.

...fire away, everybody!:kill:

When I think of what this means to rocketry I can't help but hang my head in shame. I will be getting my level 3 before all this takes affect but after that, well, I don't want to get a LEUP either. Oh, well.... :hanging head:

Gotta admire you for going all the way before it's too late!
I've considered getting L1 just so I can say I did it, even if I never get to again. But that'd be a lot of $$ just for bragging rights, which could be spent on a couple of good mid-power kits plus motors. If I'd already started building it'd be different.

There's been some encouraging posts to the ROL forum about congressional relief specific to HPR, and there's always the lawsuit. But does anyone think it'll be settled by May? I don't. Makes it hard not to fight the urge to spend my money on LMR or modrocs until the dust settles.

Since the "fire" I have passed on my Solid commercial motor hardware, and have converted solely to HyperTEK and R.A.T.T. Works Hybrid outfits. Hopefully I will convert my recovery hardware to the non Pyro system offered by Aerocon. The only Solid fuel hardware I own now is for Experimental use.

...I do still have my 24mm hardware, cause my Estes stuffs loves those small E & F reloads, and so does my RATT Motor...but for me, as the Ad once read in the back of HPR magazine..."The Future Is Not Solid" (except for "EX")

Johnnie Paul
NAR #73740 SR L2
TRA #08705 SR L2
HARA, NAR #403 / TRA #80

Unfortunately, Ex is not exempted either to the best of my understanding. On John Wickman's site about the HSB, he mentions that while, yes, you can make EX motors without a LEUP, you are not allowed to leave your property with them.

That applies to AP based EX motors only (or any AP propellant for that matter). Other propellants (ammonium nitrate, etc) are not restricted. However the BP for ejection charges will also be restricted in state starting in May.

Unfortunately my home is not suited for EX activities, but a fellow rocket club members is, so therefore our "Stuff" is made and stored in his "magazine."
The EX issues I will have to deal with, but the commercial side of things are Hybrid as far as my flying ventures are concerned. I have not read the Home Security Act in any shape or form as I have partialy read multiple posts on every forum I visit. Along mid 2002 I had converted to Hybrid activities because of shortages due to "the Fire"

Our local club meeting happens tomorrow night, and we will talk in depth about the New regulations that face us this year. We will decide accordingly based on the Clubs and in our Nations best interests...we will also talk about the loss of our regular flying field.

Regards

Johnnie Paul

Fortunately, I already have a LEUP so I don't have to worry much about what is going on. However, at least in our area I want to let everyone know that your local BATF agents are there to work with you in obtaining what you need if you so desire. They have been very helpful here to many members that have aquired LEUP's to include myself and are willing to work with you if needed.

I have one because of the ammount of propellant I plan on burning each year, mostly L3 motors, and my oppinion is if you can afford L2 and L3, you can afford a LEUP. Just my oppinion guys...but if worse comes to worse, I am sure that those wishing to fly will do what is called for...in the meantime, let's let the courts decide what is really going to happen as all of this may be moot point.

Carl

>>>That applies to AP based EX motors only (or any AP propellant for that matter). Other propellants (ammonium nitrate, etc) are not restricted. However the BP for ejection charges will also be restricted in state starting in May.<<<

You are correct;
The propellant I'm working on does not qualify
One (1) Currently it is in the theory stage, and
Two (2) It is a KNO3 / Epoxy based formula

Ex activities are kind of off topic topic for this forum for understandable reasons, but it still falls under the same rulings that all of us HPR, Mid Power guys must now adhere

Johnnie

As a new applicant, figured I'd share.

I sent in my paper for an LEUP in Nov. Heard from the BATF week between christmas and new years.

They were very nice, very informed and very easy to work with. I applied for a variance to store in my attached garage. I'm in waiting mode current. Agent said no reason why he would suggest not approving, but he didn't approve the variance was a totally different group.

One thing in GA. They want a letter form the FM either city, county or state depending upon your local juricdition. Saying that what you are doing will comply with the local laws. I had to get one from the County.

Also in GA, you can store 20lbs or less without a state permit, but over 20 and you need a state permit. Once you get that, you can update your LEUP to show 50lbs if you like.

Anyway, I have no idea when I might hear something. But I've got my fingers crossed

Alan

Since I am locked in a battle with the county fire marshall and fire school director, which may soon end up being a legal battle, I will steer clear of the LEUP for some time. The last thing I need is that unimpressive group of government waste to have access to my property.

So I'm in hybrid country soon....got two birds which need to be built and three motors sitting here. It's a pity, the government seems unable to consider one thing......THIS IS A FRIKKEN' HOBBY!!

If the law suit is lost there will be a lot less flights next year. It's amazing on of the brilliant co-sponsors of the bill making all the mess is Hatch of Utah......oh yeah Utah, where Aerotech is located. How brainless is he?

I just sent in my paperwork for my local permit. I'm fortunate where my local agents are cool with rocketry and actually are eager to help out.

I've delayed the LEUP process since I've BAR'd(6 years ago) just because I was in no real hurry to move up the impulse ladder. But now with the our current legal climate I'm want to be certain I will be able to keep flying.

Don't get me wrong as I'm very sure the law suit will go our way AND Mr. Wickman's friends will prevail but I want to prepared for the worst. I want to be proactive at the very least.

I have a question. If the exemption passes, will we still have to get a LEUP for Restricted Acces type motors? I thought I read somewhere that we wouldn't need them at all. That would be great for me as i'm only 19 and my father doesn't do rockets so he won't get one.

back to Chilly's original post

You don't need a leup to get your level 1
you can't purchase a level 1 motor untill after you certify anyway right? mabey you can have a club member supply/purchase the level 1 motor at a club launch site ..get your certification..than decide how far you want to go from there.

The ability to purchase a motor for certification purposes is a NFPA1127 provision, not the ATF's rule. Stymie is right - currently, you can get a HPR motor in-state (if you, the vendor, and the launch are all in state). After may, you will not be able to.

I also plan on sending in for an LEUP pretty soon. My house is definitely not suited for a storage magazine that would be approved, but my uncle that lives 5 minutes away from me has a nice plot of land that is ideal for the purpose. So it should be no problem to get it. I as Carl is, am planning on storing some good quantities of AP as I am planning soon pretty big flights tis coming year! Besides, It's only a $100 the same as a K550. I can make the sacrifice.

Wouldn't your uncle need to get a LEUP too?

I'm not sure, I'll have to do some more research. Something will workout, one way or another

I'm not sure why, but I sent in my application for a LEUP on 9/14/01. It almost a year badgering (politely) the central licensing office of the BATF, but finally I was inspected from the Boston regional office. Everything went smoothly and the inspector was very interested in the rockets too. Life is so much easier with the LEUP. For now, I can order, store, transport to my hearts content.

what does LEUP stand for

low explosive users permit

Low Explosive User Permit...get it now before they change the law (again).

Go check my post. Hopefully you won't need it for AP motors.

I hope!

https://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1853

sandman