L1/L2 decision

I was wondering would the PML Ariel be a good L1 rocket? I want something that isn't hard to build. I would like to buy something thats under $100. I want a rocket to do my L1 and L2 cert. so if I do buy a rocket, and cert L1, would I have to make it 2x deployment for my L2? The Tethys looks cool too. I seen on PML's website that a Hobbytown USA sells PML. I'l have to check the nearby Hobbytown, I didn't see any HPR, all they had out were LPR, I'll have to ask if they have some PML kits. What other kits would be good for L1/L2.

How about the Loc IV? The new version has 38mm MM and fins to the MM. The Loc site has it listed as 38mm and to the MM fins, but most resellers have it still listed as 29mm. I guess you'd have to sure which version you were getting. I think I am going with this one for L1/L2, unless someone can give a good reason why not.

I'm sure there are other more educated opinions out there, but I personally wouldn't want to use a single rocket for both purposes. In many cases, the rocket you use for L1 will absolutely go out of sight on a J350, which (I think) is about the smallest L2 motor out there.

I did a quick sim of a LOC-IV. Looks like a GREAT L1 bird. L2 would make me nervous. It sims at just under 5000 feet, but, more importantly, it sims at a max speed of 1139 ft/sec and about 48 Gs max acceleration. Definitely dual-deployment time, and you'll want to glass the tubes too. Make SURE you get one that has the fins meeting the motor mount.

I guess I personally think that once you get the L1 out of the way, you'll find yourself with a million ideas and looking for new challenges. When I got my L1, I was going to use the Sentinel right off the bat for L2, but the more I thought about it, there were some things I wanted a little bit of experience with before I went that far, so I just built it for L1 motors while I became more comfortable with things. I'm just now getting ready to build my L2 bird (materials should be here early next week) and I *still* feel like I'm rushing things and have a lot to learn. Unfortunately for me, time and finances require the test platform to be the cert platform as well.

I agree 100% with Kermie. Get your level 1 and take your time doing a level 2. As Kermie says, your knowledge of bigger rockets will only get better over time and I can guarantee that you will not find a rocket that you will be happy with doing both levels. My preference is low and slow. Do your level 1 with the Ariel but find a heavier rocket for level 2. And :bowing low: that is my opinion...

I think I'll buy just a L1 rocket instead of both L1/L2. You guys are right, it would go outta sight when it comes time for my L2. So lets say I do buy the LOC-IV or the Ariel. Do I have to do dual deployment if I just mek it my L1 rocket?

No, you do not have to do dual deploy for your L1. As a matter of fact, my advice is that you not try to do dual deploy. I would concentrate on just getting the HPR construction done well on your L1 bird.

I guess I'll bite the bullet and cert L1 with the Loc IV and go with another rocket for L2. Darn! Another big rocket!

Yep. I hate it when I have to build another big rocket. Kinda like I hate it when I get paid.

Originally posted by PGerringer
My preference is low and slow.

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Who are you and what have you done with Phil? The rocket gods want to know.

I have seen 2 people certify L1 and L2 on the same day with a PML Endeavor... using an I211 and then a J350 worked well......

The Ariel works great for L1. If you are really looking for a rocket to do both I would suggest the "D" Region by PML. The Kwik-Switch motor mount of the Tethys and Ariel could limit your motor selection ie length of motor for 38mm motors when you decide to do your L2, if you use a 38mm motor. I fly all three and used the Ariel for my L1 and the "D" Region for my L2. I would also suggest glassing the fins of the Ariel or "D" Region if you fly one of those two for your L2, as my J300 flight caused some pretty good fin flutter due to the thin fins (0.0625) of the "D" Region. The Tethys fins are thicker at 0.093, but you are still dealing with the Kwik-Switch motor mount. Check out Great Lakes Hobbies at www.greatlakeshobbies.com for some good prices on these kits.
Good luck on your L1 attempt.
JP

I would disagree with John here. In my opinion, the QS-2000 MMT is great. Although in most rockets the 29mm adapter is useless, being able to switch between 38 and 54 is great. It allows you to fly a J350 for a lvl. 2 and then after that, bump it all the way up to a J415. And, if you plan to fly bigger motors than a J415 (longer), then just get the Extended QS and you can fly everything up to a K550 I believe.

David

Originally posted by KermieD


Who are you and what have you done with Phil? The rocket gods want to know.

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LOL... For certification it is low and slow. For normal every day launches it is BALLS to the WALL...

David,
I would agree that swithing back and forth between 38 and 54 is great, if there were an abundent supply of 54 reloads out there, my comments were geared towards the Pro38 5G and 6G hardware that is too long to fit into the Kwik-Switch 38 mm mount.
Actually the 5G casing could fit but you would need to measure very carefully before assembly and attachment of your motor retainer. The 6G is definetly too long.
JP

The Kwik Switch CAN be modified to accept the Pro38 6G case. I think KenParker modified his to accept the case for his PML Amraam 4.

You have to buy the Extended Quick Switch which is a longer motor mount.

John,
Ahh, of course, I hadn't thought about the Pro38 hardware since I don't fly it. But with the extended it would fit as Phil pointed out and I think extended is the way to go. It is only a $5 upgrade and opens up a variety of motors to use.

Also, what's the average thrust on the Pro38 6G? PML doesn't recommend using quick switch motor adapters with any motor that has more kick than a J350.

Dave

Dave,
There are three reload variations in the 6G category for Pro 38,
the 64.5g J360,
the 62.5g J330,
the Smokey Sam J400.

JP

fyi, the Pro38's are near identical in performance to the AT J350...at least the standard load is....note that the Smokey Sam is going to have slightly less thrust than the standard Pro38, so it comes out in the wash.

PML's recommendations is due to the fact that all pressure is applied to the top "screw-in" part of a motor adapter. I have modified my 54mm to 38mm Quik-Switch to eleviate this problem; I somply screwed the adapter in flush, then glued an oversized CR near the end, so the lip of the CR ia resting on the edge of the 54mm motor mount...problem solved.

Carl

I'm building a tethys kit but im modifying it to house electronics if you are seriously thinking about a PMl kit i would recomend a miranda, tethys or a Pterodactyl Jr for a kit

I certified L1 and L2 on a rocket duo that retailed under a 100 smacks...

L1 was a Vaughn Brothers 2.6" Javelin, which got me an L1 certification first time out on an Aerotech H128 to about 2,000 ft.. Javelin cost $34.00

L2 was on a Public Enemy 4" Extreme Performer w/ the Dual Deployment option riding on a HyperTEK J317 to an Altitude of 4,433 ft. Performer cost was $59.95

Recent pricing in todays dollars shows that these kits can still be picked up for less than or right at 100 smacks.

I do not reccomend an L2 flight in to the "way up wild Blue yonder." But to do an L2 w/o an alt. you are going to need some kind of a hefty rocket to keep it close prximity, and thats gonna cost$$$

Both of my flights were extreme, but thats the way I like them, you see, if I wanted to keep it in sight, I would have taken up Kite Flying

Johnnie Paul