Pyramid rocket

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rocketmanMV

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I'm just finishing up a 75mm motored 1/2 scale patroit missle and I'm looking forward to the next challange. Does anyone have any experience building and flying a pyramid? How do I calculate cg and cp? I'll probably start with a small H-powered craft and work out the kinks at this level. Any input would surely be appreciated. And I'll post a report on the maiden flight of the Animal Works Green Gorilla L1060 in the current project. Shazaam!
 
HERE

This is an old item, not updated and the contacts do not work, but there is some information that may help you.

I'm still waiting for someone to submit a pyramid article to EMRR!

Nick
 
There is a short article about building a K powered pyramid in the latest Sport Rocketry. It doesn't talk much about design considerations, but might still be interesting/useful to you.

Nathan
 
Originally posted by rocketmanMV
How do I calculate cg and cp?
I pulled this quote from the link that Nick posted above.
Originally posted by Rick Dickinson at the above mentioned link
First, CP is not a fixed point, as we generally assume. It actually varies with angle of attack. Also, the Barrowman equations are based on some simplifying assumptions, which the FPoD violates.

Barrowman assumed that the rocket wuld be "conventionally" shaped -- a tube with a pointy bit at the front, and fins at the back, with somewhere in the neighborhood of a 10:1 length:diameter ratio. He also assumed that the only "significant" portions of the rocket would be the nose and fins, with the body contributing only marginally to the CP, since the angle of attck (AoA) would be assumed to be less than 10 degrees. Based on these assumptions, 1 to 2 calibers of margin between the calculated CP and the CG of the rocket would yield a stable design.

In reality, the "margin" is only there to ensure Dynamic stability. If the CG is in front of the CP *at all*, the rocket is statically stable. As the rocket hits larger AoAs, the CP moves forward due to larger contributions by the body tube. With 1-2 calibers of margin, there is enough "headroom" for the rocket to swing straight again before the CP moves too far forward.

Real long rockets (Mean Machine, etc.) need *larger* stability margins, since the body tube moves the CP farther forward for the same AoA. Conversely, shorter rockets need smaller margins. A stock "Fat Boy" has about 0.5 calibers of margin on a C6 engine, and flies fine.

The FPoD is a special case. Not only is it very short compared to the "diameter" (which diameter to use is an interesting question, since it obviously tapers), but it also reacts differently than a tube would to varying AoAs. A symmetrical cylinder would have it's CG and CP at the geometric center, regardless of AoA. But a Pyramid or Cone would have it's CP about 1/3 of the way from the rear at a 0 AoA, and, in my opinion, further back at slightly larger AoAs, up to the point where one side becomes "vertical" compared to the direction of travel.
 
One of the guys in Cincinnati is notorious for his Pyramids, in a good way that is...Jim has made H sized, J-K sized and just finished his Level 3 Pyramid, which stands 6 feet tall and will launch on a M2400, maybe next week. Maybe I can talk him into posting some info.

Here is a pic I caught of a J350 launch of his:

<a href="reviews/pyramid1.jpg"> Pyramid Pic1</a>
<a href="reviews/pyramid2.jpg"> Pyramid Pic2</a>
<a href="reviews/pyramid3.jpg"> Pyramid Pic3</a>
<a href="reviews/pyramid4.jpg"> Pyramid Pic4</a>
<a href="reviews/pyramid5.jpg"> Pyramid Pic5</a>


Carl
 
Carl...
Could you repost the #4 pic? Unless I'm not looking close enough, it appears to be cutoff or just a pic of sky. I would imagine it's the launch pic.

Tnx...
 
Stones, yes it is the launch pic...it does work, try refreshing, but I will also upload it again...

Carl
 
Working now... tnx
One would think the drag coef. would be substantial with this shape. Any idea what kind of alt. it reached on the J?
 
The rocket has extremely high drag...he got about 1000 feet...his L3 is expecting around 2500'.

Carl
 
The first high-power pyramid I saw was Brett Wynn's K-powered pyramid at LDRS 15. He had the motor recessed a little bit up into the pyramid so that when it was in flight [and I'm sure many of you have seen the photos], the flame came out of the entire base of the rocket. Not only that, but the rocket amplified the sound of the motor like a megaphone. VERY cool. I missed seeing his M-powered pyramid [not] fly Monday.

My question is [since I'm all about variations on a theme], has anyone seen/built/flown a cone rocket?
 
Seen only. Shadow Composites off and on sells a Sprint ABM kit. This seems to fly well. Quest used to sell something similar called the Point, which didn't fly so well. I saw Andy Schecter's M powered Pinhead (shredded at LDRS 19). I've also seen photos of several others.

The stability issues appear to be about the same as for pyramids. I *think* the CP is about 1/3 of the way down from the nose if I remember right.
 
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