Gassaway 2 Minute Egg

[JAL3]

The 2 Minute Egg is a rocket designed by George Gassaway for egglofting competitions. It is posted as a free download at the NAR site and I found it by posing a general question on TRF and following the many helpful links provided in response.

I chose this particular design because I like the look of the conical shroud, I had an idea for a modification (more on that later) and because it looked easy. The competition for which I build it is not a formal affair; its just some guys who get together for fun. Winning, while desirable, it not really my first goal. I just want to participate and, hopefully, learn something along the way.

The 2 Minute Egg can be made with a piece of cardstock, some 3/32" balsa, a 4" piece of BT20, a centering ring and an egg capsule. Additionally, you will need a parachute and shock cord. The plans can be downloaded here: http://www.nar.org/competition/plans/eggloft.html

Construction of the 2 Minute Egg began with the simple expedient of printing out the PDF file. I used 110# cardstock and a laser printer. Then it was a matter of cutting out the desired shroud. The second page of the plan provides 2 different options. One is for 1.75" diameter capsules and the other is for 1.9-2" diameter. I chose the smaller because of an idea for a modification, alos gotten from TRF.

After cutting out the shroud, I did some pre-rolling by dragging around the corner of a desk and then rolling it into a tube and setting inside my stock of BT20 while I attended to the fins.

[JAL3]

The plans have a cut out template for the 3 fins and instructions to use 3/32" balsa. I checked my stocks and found none of that thickness. I did have 1/16" and I planned to laminate the fins so I went with that. I cut out the template and traced the pattern onto the balsa, making sure to align the grain properly. The fins were then cut out with an X-acto guided by a steel ruler.

It doesn't usually get too cold in Texas but it was cold when I was doing this. It was just enough to make the fingers a little less sensitive and more clumsy. I drew the blade across the tip of my left index finger and managed to slice a chunk out. It was mostly skin but got a bit of meat as well. It did not hurt or bleed at first but then the blood started to dribble out and would not stop. I held a paper towel against it to staunch the flow for about a half hour and stopped work on the rocket because I had different plans on the coloring. I mixed some epoxy to fix a piece of trim platic garage cabinet and dribbled some on my desk. I clean such spill from a gallon container of ethanol I keep under my desk. Without thinking, I poked my left index finger into the grain alcohol and the pain nerves chose that moment to wake up.

When i finished knocking over furntiture and generally making an @$$ out of myself, I started sanding the fins. I can't really say I put an airfoil in them but I did round the leading edge and tapered, somewhat, the trailing edge. Each fin was then pressed down on a sheet of self adhesive label paper and the X-acto was used to trim away the excess. The fins were then flipped and the label stock applied to the other side in the same manner.

[JAL3]

The rocket needs a 4" length of BT20. I did not have any 4" pieces so I marked off the distance on a full length piece and then used tape to mark the circumference. The razor knife was then used to slowly score around the tube and cut it. The end was sanded down and then an Estes marking guide was used to put the 3FNC lines in place.

[sandman]

John, you are a rocket building machine!!;)

[JAL3]

John, you are a rocket building machine!!;)

Its how I relieve stress...and I have plenty to relieve.

I didn't getto work on any for about a month around Christmas and I could really tell.

Now I've got some built and I need to get them up in the air!

[JAL3]

I had some trouble rolling the shroud. This was due mainly to my own clumsiness and lack of facility with the origami arts. I placed a thin layer of white glue along the tab and then tried to press the sides together and get the lines aligned. I met with very little success and had to give up for the day. The following day, I placed another small amount of glue on the tab and started again from the wide end. This time, the glue set a bit faster because I had a double joint. I used a long piece of BT20 in the central cavity to press the seam together and it (mostly) lined up fine.

[JAL3]

The plan calls for a BT20 to BT50 centering ring to help steady the shroud on the tube. I didn't have one so I stole one from a Fliskits motor mount kit. Whe glue was used to attach it to the 4" piece of BT20. The ring was filleted and, after drying, a length of Kevlar was tied to the tube just abaft of the centering ring and anchored down with more glue.

[JAL3]

When the glue on the centering ring had dried, I tested fitted the BT in the shroud. It looked fairly straight so I took it out, swabbed some glue and re-installed the motor/body tube.

[zog139]

John

I am not sure about the newer ASP kits but the older ones from Apogee
( Lacroix ) had you use 3m double sided cellophane tape on the shroud and seal the edge with thin ca.

A couple other things that might have helped you can try next time. Take a fat dowell maybe 3/4 or 1" and roll the shroud around it putting a "curl" into the paper which will make it smooth and not create any folds or wrinkles. Watching somebody do this really helps. Our club use to have build sessions around contest events, but have slowed down recently. The other tip I would offer is to tape your pre-curled shroud down to your work table just above the seam line on both ends. Roll the shroud over and beyond the tab then align it and push down. If you dont use the tape you have to hold it long enough for the glue to grab. Either way once it is attached use your dowell again along the inside of the shoud to bear down on the seam and roll it at the same time to get a good seam the entire length.

Jim

[JAL3]

John

I am not sure about the newer ASP kits but the older ones from Apogee
( Lacroix ) had you use 3m double sided cellophane tape on the shroud and seal the edge with thin ca.

A couple other things that might have helped you can try next time. Take a fat dowell maybe 3/4 or 1" and roll the shroud around it putting a "curl" into the paper which will make it smooth and not create any folds or wrinkles. Watching somebody do this really helps. Our club use to have build sessions around contest events, but have slowed down recently. The other tip I would offer is to tape your pre-curled shroud down to your work table just above the seam line on both ends. Roll the shroud over and beyond the tab then align it and push down. If you dont use the tape you have to hold it long enough for the glue to grab. Either way once it is attached use your dowell again along the inside of the shoud to bear down on the seam and roll it at the same time to get a good seam the entire length.

Jim

I very much appreciate the advice. I'm sure it will come in handy.

I was thinking seriously about dousing the shroud in thin CA to strenghten it. Do you think this would be advisable?

[georgegassaway]

>>>>>
I was thinking seriously about dousing the shroud in thin CA to strenghten it. Do you think this would be advisable?
<<<<<

Since you said you used #110 cardstock (and not regular paper), no, it is plenty strong.

- George Gassaway

[Fred22]

Threads like this are why I love this place :)
Cheers
Fred

[JAL3]

>>>>>
I was thinking seriously about dousing the shroud in thin CA to strenghten it. Do you think this would be advisable?
<<<<<

Since you said you used #110 cardstock (and not regular paper), no, it is plenty strong.

- George Gassaway

Thanks!

That stuff gets me in trouble each and every time.

[JAL3]

THe fins were place with a double glue joint of Elmer's yellow. After they had dried, the sides were filleted with white glue.

[JAL3]

I figured I was ready to start finishing. I know that many contest rockets remain unpainted to save on weight but I wanted to paint mine. First, because I think it looks better and second because my contests aren't all that serious anyway.

I wanted to keep in the "egg" theme so I chose a yellow that was already open. I began spraying light coats. The printing from the shroud was still showing through but I figured 2 more coats should take take of that. That's when I noticed that I had not installed the launch lug.

[JAL3]

After the paint had a day to dry, I took the rocket back to the bench and cut two pieces of 1/8" lug. I used a piece of rod to find a place on one fin where the lug would just clear the upper end of the shroud and then used a razor knife to scrape the paint away from the fin there. The lower lug was then glued in place with white glue.

[JAL3]

I looked around for a piece of scrap balsa with the grain running in the right direction, perpendicular to the lug, and found one which I trimmed to the length of the upper lug. I purposely left it to long so that the correct length could be cut when the glue on the lower lug was dry and it could handle a rod for alignment. The upper lug was glued onto the standoff.

[powderburner]

I used a long piece of BT20 in the central cavity to press the seam together and it (mostly) lined up fine.

Another way to do this is to use a piece of 5/8 inch wooden dowel, sized to fit through the BT20 end of the finished shroud (try to select one that is actually round, and smooth). If you are rolling a big enough shroud you can also use scrap lengths of metal electrical conduit.
Roll and press on top of a thin (like 1/4 inch thick) layer of stiff foam for better results.

[JAL3]

Another way to do this is to use a piece of 5/8 inch wooden dowel, sized to fit through the BT20 end of the finished shroud (try to select one that is actually round, and smooth). If you are rolling a big enough shroud you can also use scrap lengths of metal electrical conduit.
Roll and press on top of a thin (like 1/4 inch thick) layer of stiff foam for better results.

Thanks for the tip.

Not long after doing the above, I went out and got a mess of dowels in various sizes. I had been threatening to do that for a long time and had finally gotten fed up enough to do it.

THe foam is a new idea though. Do you think the rubber, self healing hobby mat would be suitable?

[powderburner]

I don't know how 'hard' your rubber mat is---sounds like it might not have much give, if it's a cutting mat.

I used a piece of soft foam for a while because it was cheap (free; packing material for a stereo) and it worked OK. When I came across a piece of stiffer foam sheet (higher density, but you can still pinch it easily between your fingers) I traded up.

If you have to work a piece of cardstock into the shape of a conic, hold one end of your roller/dowel in place (at the center of the conic pattern) and slide/roll the other end up and down across the cardstock. The foam backing will gently bend the cardstock to fit against the curve of the roller and usually gets you a better bend, without wrinkles. The thicker the foam and the harder you push down, the faster the cardstock bends (but the more chance you have of getting wrinkles). I like to use a piece of foam about 1/4 or 3/8 inch thick.

But do give your rubber mat a try on a cardstock test-piece, and let us know if that works too?

[JAL3]

I don't know how 'hard' your rubber mat is---sounds like it might not have much give, if it's a cutting mat.

I used a piece of soft foam for a while because it was cheap (free; packing material for a stereo) and it worked OK. When I came across a piece of stiffer foam sheet (higher density, but you can still pinch it easily between your fingers) I traded up.

If you have to work a piece of cardstock into the shape of a conic, hold one end of your roller/dowel in place (at the center of the conic pattern) and slide/roll the other end up and down across the cardstock. The foam backing will gently bend the cardstock to fit against the curve of the roller and usually gets you a better bend, without wrinkles. The thicker the foam and the harder you push down, the faster the cardstock bends (but the more chance you have of getting wrinkles). I like to use a piece of foam about 1/4 or 3/8 inch thick.

But do give your rubber mat a try on a cardstock test-piece, and let us know if that works too?

If my wife could read this, she would say you have given me an excellenct excuse for unburrying my mat.

The explanation you gave makes sense and I want to try it.

THanks,

[CharlaineC]

I use a corkboard for working with paper models. cant wait to see this finished i just downloaded it so i could build her.

[Pat_B]

I've had good luck rolling the dowel on top of the shroud while it sat on my thigh. Sounds funny, but works just fine.

[JAL3]

I've had good luck rolling the dowel on top of the shroud while it sat on my thigh. Sounds funny, but works just fine.

It makes sense to me now that I understand what is supposed to be going on. Originally, I was having a hard time picturing it.

[JAL3]

The lower lug got to dry overnight and then I used a short length of rod to line up the upper one. I made a mark on the standoff to slice it a bit longer than the right length and then used sandpaper to sand in the contour of the cone. I then marked the shroud for the proper location, scraped off the psint and installed the upper lug with a double glue joint.

[Pat_B]

Looking good.

Here's the advanced thigh roller 2000.

[JAL3]

Looking good.

Here's the advanced thigh roller 2000.

My thighs would be considerably larger. Probably more cushioning as well.;)

[georgegassaway]

Attached is a GIF for a preview, and four individual PDF's of the Two Minute Egg Shroud.

The shroud was drawn for a relatively large Easter Egg capsule. One version has some extra arcs included, so if you are using a smaller capsule, you can use those to help trim the top of the shroud to fit the capsule.

Two versions have the name “Two Minute Egg” on them.

One is blank.

And one has the NAR logo.

- George Gassaway

[JAL3]

Attached is a GIF for a preview, and four individual PDF's of the Two Minute Egg Shroud.

The shroud was drawn for a relatively large Easter Egg capsule. One version has some extra arcs included, so if you are using a smaller capsule, you can use those to help trim the top of the shroud to fit the capsule.

Two versions have the name “Two Minute Egg” on them.

One is blank.

And one has the NAR logo.

- George Gassaway


Those look nice!

It almost makes me want to start over.
If I ever do some serious competition, I will start over.

THanks!

[JAL3]

After the lugs had an opportunity to dry, they were filleted with white glue and allowed to dry some more. The 2 Minute Egg was then taken back to the booth for a final application of yellow paint. It actually took 2 more light coats to cover the printing.

[JAL3]

The 2 Minute Egg is designed for use with a commercially made egg capsule. Through inattention, I found the day of my club launch upon me and I had not yet ordered the capsule. With that in mind, I fell back on plan B, an idea I had read about and which had intrigued me.

I purchased some balloons and, after a bit of fretting, managed to get one around an egg. A piece of elastic was tied off around the open end of the balloon and the elastic was tied into the Kevlar shock mount. Under this schema, the egg IS the nose cone and relies on a large chute to get down safely.

Tomorrow I find out how well it works.

[JAL3]

The day of the contest dawned and brought with it sustained 20mph winds and gusts to 35. Even so, all were determined to participate. All of the sudden, the 24" parachute I had packed was beginning to look a little small.

The rocket was prepped with a C6-3, some wadding and the egg balloon was carefully placed. The countdown came. The motor ignited and then the rocket went up. As soon as it cleared the wind shadow from the ground support truck, it began to weathercock into the wind. It didn't get all that high but it did eject before the parabolic trajectory started in the down direction. Out came the chute and a problem was immediately apparent. The chute was not opening. It was just acting as a big streamer; but not big enough.

The rocket came streaming down with pretty significant components to both the vertical and horizontal velocity vectors. The result was very "squishy". I'm so glad the egg was enclosed in a balloon.

A video of the flight can be seen here: http://flickr.com/photos/23694991@N03/3280946568/

A Video showing the reason for the balloon can be seen here: http://flickr.com/photos/23694991@N03/3280947288/

The balloon saved the rocket from being subject to a hideous mess but the rocket did sustain some damage. One of the fins broke its joint and remained connected to the BT by only a skin of filleting glue. It will be an easy repair.

[JAL3]

Even though my flight was disqualified, I am prepared to offer a few observations about this rocket design.

Not a single rocket qualified on the day of the contest. High winds made recovery of the eggs problematical. Of all the flights, mine performed best, getting the best altitude and had the added benefit of actually ejecting while in the air.

This is a simple rocket. I would use it again. It requires a bit of luck for the trick to save weight by using a balloon to work but I think it is worth the risk. The rocket is light enough and is designed for a regular egg carrier.

A record of the 2 Minute Egg in photos and videos can be found here: http://flickr.com/photos/23694991@N03/collections/72157613138175478/

[CharlaineC]

jal thought i would share mine made with a 3" diamiter egg

bt50 based so she will be d-e

[JAL3]

jal thought i would share mine made with a 3" diamiter egg

bt50 based so she will be d-e

For Ostrich eggs?

Make sure you don't do like we did and hold your contest in 20-30 mph winds with higher gusts! Unless you like omlettes;)

[CharlaineC]

naaaa its so i can use padding. and jumbo eggs

[JAL3]

and jumbo eggs

...Like i said.:rolleyes:

[georgegassaway]

Charlaine, nice looking model. Looks like a "slightly modified " Alpha.

One thing. It looks like the upper shroud is not centered on the BT-50 by a degree or two. Is it an optical/camera illusion, or really misaligned?

- George Gassaway

[CharlaineC]

its the camera i think the shroud has two centering rings and seems alined but the camera says other wise. . the fins are alpha style as i couldn't get it to sim stablely with the other style.

[JAL3]

After its one outing, my 2 Minute Egg spent some time bouncing around in a box but I finally pulled it out to work on it today.

The major issue is the broken off fin.

[JAL3]

Yellow glue and a double joint was used to put the fin back into place. Upon drying, it was treated to several fillets of white glue.

[Micromeister]

John:
One of the things I've leaned to do to help with securing friction fit motor competition models has been to extend the motor mount tube a least 1/4" below the bottom of the fin root. this allows the addition of a line of External tape along with the tape on the motor to prevent casing ejections (an automatic DQ).

I've had such good luck with this method, I do it on ever model I build regardless of type....Kit, Scratch or Plan. they all get and extended motor mount tube.

Hope this helps a little.

[JAL3]

John:
One of the things I've leaned to do to help with securing friction fit motor competition models has been to extend the motor mount tube a least 1/4" below the bottom of the fin root. this allows the addition of a line of External tape along with the tape on the motor to prevent casing ejections (an automatic DQ).

I've had such good luck with this method, I do it on ever model I build regardless of type....Kit, Scratch or Plan. they all get and extended motor mount tube.

Hope this helps a little.

The advice is appreciated. It would make things easier.

[powderburner]

Ya know, I resisted the chance to make smart-aleck comments the first time, because I have done basically the same things myself. (Who hasn't?) But this is just to good to pass up.


It was just enough to make the fingers a little less sensitive and more clumsy. I drew the blade across the tip of my left index finger and managed to slice a chunk out. It was mostly skin but got a bit of meat as well......Without thinking, I poked my left index finger into the grain alcohol and the pain nerves chose that moment to wake up.

John, we're going to have to start calling you "Fingers" Lee if you don't cut this out....I mean, knock it off.

I do have one small (real) suggestion for making the label paper application a bit easier. Next time, try leaving enough paper extending past the fin leading edge to wrap all the way around there and back onto the other surface. Join them together at the trailing edge and trim, and you don't have to trim the leading edge. If you pre-sand the fin so the leading edge is round, you also get a smoother paper cover there when the paper wrap goes continuously around that edge---and the smooth leading edge (which is fairly critical to getting optimum fin effectiveness) makes the whole fin work a lot better.

[bobkrech]

If you are doing a C egg-loft, I'd recommend using a C11-5 and using 2 layers of 20# paper instead of the 110" paper. It's easier to make and is much less susceptible to wind because of the C11's higher thrust. With a 40" square chute I had a 120 second duration on its first flight with no thermals and a 10 mph wind.

Bob

[JAL3]

Ya know, I resisted the chance to make smart-aleck comments the first time, because I have done basically the same things myself. (Who hasn't?) But this is just to good to pass up.



John, we're going to have to start calling you "Fingers" Lee if you don't cut this out....I mean, knock it off.

I do have one small (real) suggestion for making the label paper application a bit easier. Next time, try leaving enough paper extending past the fin leading edge to wrap all the way around there and back onto the other surface. Join them together at the trailing edge and trim, and you don't have to trim the leading edge. If you pre-sand the fin so the leading edge is round, you also get a smoother paper cover there when the paper wrap goes continuously around that edge---and the smooth leading edge (which is fairly critical to getting optimum fin effectiveness) makes the whole fin work a lot better.


I'd forgotten about that! It seems so long ago.

I appreciate the tip about the labels. I have not done very many this way and am still learning my way around.

[JAL3]

If you are doing a C egg-loft, I'd recommend using a C11-5 and using 2 layers of 20# paper instead of the 110" paper. It's easier to make and is much less susceptible to wind because of the C11's higher thrust. With a 40" square chute I had a 120 second duration on its first flight with no thermals and a 10 mph wind.

Bob

That sounds like a good tip and I might give it a try if I do any more egg lofting.

This one was done in a rush as a club meet was approaching and I had nothing with which to compete. The day of the launch was terribly windy and nobody got a single qualified flight. At least my cargo was encased in the baloon. Some of them were very messy!

[TheAviator]

I've been doing competition for a while now, and I love egg lofters. For reference, I've successfully recovered eggs on 12" parachutes using the egg-in-balloon technique before. Mind you, the ground was rather forgiving (thick grass and soft dirt) and by the fact that you're from the Alamo Rocketeers section, I imagine you're launching on desert or similar hard surfaces, so a larger 'chute would be in order.

The main trick, however is getting the parachute to open. In this regard, it helps to take a little talcum powder and rub it into the 'chute before you fold it up. This keeps it from sticking to itself (which sounds like the problem you had, correct me if I'm wrong). Also, the 'chute should be attached as close to the egg as possible. This allows the booster to hit the ground before the egg, reducing the weight the 'chute supports and thereby the reducing sink rate at the last minute.

[JAL3]

I've been doing competition for a while now, and I love egg lofters. For reference, I've successfully recovered eggs on 12" parachutes using the egg-in-balloon technique before. Mind you, the ground was rather forgiving (thick grass and soft dirt) and by the fact that you're from the Alamo Rocketeers section, I imagine you're launching on desert or similar hard surfaces, so a larger 'chute would be in order.

The main trick, however is getting the parachute to open. In this regard, it helps to take a little talcum powder and rub it into the 'chute before you fold it up. This keeps it from sticking to itself (which sounds like the problem you had, correct me if I'm wrong). Also, the 'chute should be attached as close to the egg as possible. This allows the booster to hit the ground before the egg, reducing the weight the 'chute supports and thereby the reducing sink rate at the last minute.


Thanks for your interest.

Its not supposed to be real desert around here but you wouldn't know that with the current drought.

I sometimes do the talc thing. I keep some in my box for just that reason. I forget to do it a lot as well. I usually switch out the plastic jobs for nylon which don't have the problem. That may well have been a big part of it. As I remember, there was no melt problem. It was pretty cold though. That makes the plastic stiffer.

[TheAviator]

It's not really a matter of melting. With smooth plastics such as garbage bags, dry cleaning bags, emergency blankets (Mylar), grocery bags, etc, the plastic will stick to itself no matter what you do. If it's left in the same shape for any extended period of time the effect will be worse. The problem isn't as bad with aluminized mylar, but it still exists. The talcum powder essentially roughs up the surface to prevent this from happening.

Oh, and I would use nylon/silk, but it's heavier and bulkier, not something that is useful for competition.

[JAL3]

It's not really a matter of melting. With smooth plastics such as garbage bags, dry cleaning bags, emergency blankets (Mylar), grocery bags, etc, the plastic will stick to itself no matter what you do. If it's left in the same shape for any extended period of time the effect will be worse. The problem isn't as bad with aluminized mylar, but it still exists. The talcum powder essentially roughs up the surface to prevent this from happening.

Oh, and I would use nylon/silk, but it's heavier and bulkier, not something that is useful for competition.

Believe me. I have had melting before. I know the difference but, yeah, old plastic develops "memory" and likes to stick to itself. Thats one of the reasons I like the pricier chutes. THe other is that I just hate to put the plastic ones together.

I Used a pre-made Estes in this one because of the room factor and because I already had it sitting around taking up space. My original plan was to cut up a laundry bag but waiting to the last minute provided its usual reward.

[TheAviator]

Well, that's definitely good. I find laundry bags are the worst offenders of the bunch and aluminized Mylar is the best. Mylar is my choice for competition rockets simply because it is light, cheap, and readily available. Emergency blankets cost maybe $3 and give enough material for many, many parachutes (or one VERY large one, as the case may be.) It also folds up nice and tiny, and the smallest amount of talcum powder will keep it from sticking.

Oh, something I forgot to mention earlier: before flying, give your parachute a nice tug in the open air and let it fill. Then re-fold it and pack it normally. This also helps a lot.

[JAL3]

Getting the fin back on was the major priority but one of the other fins also had some damage where a chunk had been taken out of the outer edge.

[JAL3]

Finding my store of Elmer's filler had not been put up properly, I turned to plan B and applied a dab of Squadron Green putty to the affected area.

[JAL3]

I let the putty set for 23 hours and then sanded the original (more or less) shape back into the end of the fin.

[JAL3]

After brushing the dust from the sanded putty away, I gave the rocket a quick touch up with the yellow paint I had used before and its ready to be flown again.

[CharlaineC]

dont forget the egg capsul this time. and padding

[TheAviator]

dont forget the egg capsul this time. and padding


Pssshtt... you don't break records with egg capsules! Eggs in balloons all the way! Besides, I remember when I was 5 or 6 watching "Bill Nye the Science Guy" balance a cinder block on 4 hen's eggs. They are surprisingly strong.

[Micromeister]

Pssshtt... you don't break records with egg capsules! Eggs in balloons all the way! Besides, I remember when I was 5 or 6 watching "Bill Nye the Science Guy" balance a cinder block on 4 hen's eggs. They are surprisingly strong.


That All depends on who's egg capsules your using. I'd be willing to bet the styrene Egg capsules from Pratt hobbies won't add any more weight then the balloon and still offers a second skin for our eggs;) To be honest Ham handed me has broken more eggs trying to get them IN a balloon then I've ever broken on landings in other type capsules. The Balloon trick is a fun gimmick but for ease of assembly, I think I'll stick with Pratt single or dual egg cones.
The only photo I have handy is an old Apogee B-liner that used Pratts .010" vacuum formed Styrene cones. I'm pretty sure Doug still offers them tho I haven't been on his site for several years.
Just giving another source for very good competition parts.
Hope this helps.

[TheAviator]

That All depends on who's egg capsules your using. I'd be willing to bet the styrene Egg capsules from Pratt hobbies won't add any more weight then the balloon and still offers a second skin for our eggs;) To be honest Ham handed me has broken more eggs trying to get them IN a balloon then I've ever broken on landings in other type capsules. The Balloon trick is a fun gimmick but for ease of assembly, I think I'll stick with Pratt single or dual egg cones.

Fair enough. All I know is that I've broken records with eggs in balloons. The biggest thing about the egg-in-balloon for me is not so much weight, but reduction of frontal area, and therefore drag is reduced.

[Micromeister]

Fair enough. All I know is that I've broken records with eggs in balloons. The biggest thing about the egg-in-balloon for me is not so much weight, but reduction of frontal area, and therefore drag is reduced.

I can totally agree with reducing frontal area: That is truely a major concern with Egglofters, but I've not seen a big enough difference between the
Pratt(old CMR) capsule and the outer dimeter of the eggs to justify the "dragger surface" of the balloons. I believe both use the same diameter body shroud. Since we can polish the Pratt styrene cone super smooth if we wish, I can't see an advantage with the not so slick balloon surface or generally pretty uneven transition between balloon to shroud. At least the few Egg/Balloon models l've flown seemed to distort this transition area. I'd have to try to stretch the balloon around the bottom of the egg and tape it really tight to get it to seat and still more often then not, had more then the thickness of the shroud top poking out here and there. Not trying to say the Egg-in-Balloon is a bad way to go; as I haven't really competed for the last few year, but there are always tradeoffs to be make, and more information and options one has the better don't ya think.
What motor class record did you hold... altitude or duration? You must have been flying with a Team.

[JAL3]

In anticipation of my first ever sanctioned competition coming up, I found and dusted off my 2 Minute Egg. It seemed to be in pretty fair shape and I wanted to take the opportunity of my club's SNAP launch to do some experimentation. With that in mind, I stopped by my local grocery store on the way to the field.

I bought a dozen large eggs and then spent some time looking for balloons which I could fit over the eggs. I was completely unsuccessful in the latter and I could not find the stock of balloons I had bought for the purpose 2 years ago. Then I happened upon an idea for an alternative product.

For those of you who do not know it, I am a pastor. The grocery store I stopped in is the same one I stop by in the mornings to purchase communion loaves. The people know me and have for almost 50 years. I got some strange looks when I plopped a package of a dozen Trojans on the counter without thinking about it. I tried to explain but that was a fruitless endeavor. WHat was even more fruitless was trying to explain the itemized receipt to SHE WHO MUST BE OBEYED when I got home last night. I finally had to bring in the rocket with the egg still encased to explain things and my step-daughter asked some uncomfortable questions when I left the thing sitting on the table overnight.

I have digressed too far.

[Brent]

In anticipation of my first ever sanctioned competition coming up, I found and dusted off my 2 Minute Egg. It seemed to be in pretty fair shape and I wanted to take the opportunity of my club's SNAP launch to do some experimentation. With that in mind, I stopped by my local grocery store on the way to the field.

I bought a dozen large eggs and then spent some time looking for balloons which I could fit over the eggs. I was completely unsuccessful in the latter and I could not find the stock of balloons I had bought for the purpose 2 years ago. Then I happened upon an idea for an alternative product.

For those of you who do not know it, I am a pastor. The grocery store I stopped in is the same one I stop by in the mornings to purchase communion loaves. The people know me and have for almost 50 years. I got some strange looks when I plopped a package of a dozen Trojans on the counter without thinking about it. I tried to explain but that was a fruitless endeavor. WHat was even more fruitless was trying to explain the itemized receipt to SHE WHO MUST BE OBEYED when I got home last night. I finally had to bring in the rocket with the egg still encased to explain things and my step-daughter asked some uncomfortable questions when I left the thing sitting on the table overnight.

I have digressed too far.

I am sorry but that is pretty funny :rofl: Almost like something you would see in on TV or a movie.

[Rex R]

try explaining that you want to put a radio receiver in one... you'll get similar results :).
rex

[JAL3]

One of my goals was to test the difference between the longer thrusting Quest C motors and the standard Estes C6. With that in mind, I packed the chute (a spare Estes) loaded a Quest C6-3 and slipped an egg into a condom, tying it off. The guys at the launch looked at me even more strangely than normal as I took it out to the pad.

[JAL3]

FWIW, post 65 was started right after post 63. I was in the middle of uploading the attachments when I was summoned before SHE WHO MUST BE OBEYED and SHE WHO WISHES TO BE OBEYED in order to more fully explain things. That is resolved, I hope. Now we're going to see the Green Hornet so I guess I'm still married.

[JAL3]

The movie was mediocre. Wife hated it, daughter loved it, I saw a few neat tricks but it was tiresome.

We now return to our regularly scheduled rocket thread.

[JAL3]

Liftoff with the Quest motor started well. It boosted straight for the first 40 feet or so.

[JAL3]

After the initial spike, though, the thrust died down and the rocket began to noticeably arc over. By the time ejection occurred it was pointed more down than up, a bit below horizontal.

[JAL3]

Much to my surprise, though the egg landed without any harm. My "protection" had not been needed. It was a "qualified flight" as I understand the rules but did not stay in the air very long at all.

[JAL3]

I hoped for better results with an Estes C6-3. The new motor was installed and the same egg was reseated on the rocket and set up on the pad.

[JAL3]

Liftoff was again perfect.

[JAL3]

This time, however, the boost phase was perfect as well. The rocket continued to climb straight up.

[JAL3]

The coast phase was also close to perfect. It continued up for almost the entire 3 seconds of the delay.

[JAL3]

At the last second, the rocket fell on its side and the chute ejected.

[JAL3]

When the chute opened, the fun began. Even with one broken shroud line, it just stayed up. It caught a thermal and started drifting. I got in my vehicle and chased it down the highway.

[JAL3]

When I found it, it was on the shoulder of US 87. The egg was fine. I can't wait to see what happens when I put in a "good" parachute.

[dlazarus6660]

John,

Nice flight, that parachute looks a lot like a shirt I used to wear.:blush::D

[JAL3]

John,

Nice flight, that parachute looks a lot like a shirt I used to wear.:blush::D

Thanks.

The chute was some premade Estes for a long forgotten kit. It just went into a "just in case" bag until I had some need of it. It kind of reminds me of a tie dyed t-shirt I still have around here some place except that the colors are much more subdued.:wink:

[HotRod Rockets]

JAL3: I got some strange looks when I plopped a package of a dozen Trojans on the counter without thinking about it. I tried to explain but that was a fruitless endeavor. WHat was even more fruitless was trying to explain the itemized receipt to SHE WHO MUST BE OBEYED when I got home last night. I finally had to bring in the rocket with the egg still encased to explain things and my step-daughter asked some uncomfortable questions when I left the thing sitting on the table overnight.
:roll:
Possibly the most hilarious rocket post ever.

Possibly beaten by the photos of egg in-protection .:D

.....now I must clean the coffee I spit all over my confuser screen.

.

[MrGneissGuy]

:roll:
Possibly the most hilarious rocket post ever.

Possibly beaten by the photos of egg in-protection .:D

.....now I must clean the coffee I spit all over my confuser screen.

.

Agree 100% on the enjoyment of this series of posts. Maybe my mind just goes places it shouldn't, but I especially laughed at the mention of thrust with picture of said protection for the egg.

But seriously, nice flight.

[green dragon]

Great classic design .

My brother used a Two Minute Egg model to set the B division - B Egg Loft Duration record at , iirc, 54 seconds.

Does not sound too long, but hey, they don't boost very high on a B either.


am surprised to see the 'pretty' contest birds in this thread, al the added weight :P . and launch lugs ? * gasp * ..... I could enjoy competition if we could make em nice ( and get em back :) )

~ AL

rocket craftsman .

[JAL3]

Great classic design .

My brother used a Two Minute Egg model to set the B division - B Egg Loft Duration record at , iirc, 54 seconds.

Does not sound too long, but hey, they don't boost very high on a B either.


am surprised to see the 'pretty' contest birds in this thread, al the added weight :P . and launch lugs ? * gasp * ..... I could enjoy competition if we could make em nice ( and get em back :) )

~ AL

rocket craftsman .

I hear you about the lugs and such. I built this one for an informal contest of my local club. It was not worth the effort to me to try some type of exotic launch guidance. I am recycling it for the competition I am going to in March. Most of my time and effort are going into the glider and copter rockets. Even those, I was do do some rudimentary finishing. I just don't like the ugly nekkids...

[Peartree]

Before you, um, elegant solution I wondered if one of these would open wide enough to put an egg in a balloon.

http://www.medical-tools.com/shop/images/D/elastrator-L-01.jpg

You can pick them up at most any Tractor Supply or Farm and Fleet store...

[JAL3]

Before you, um, elegant solution I wondered if one of these would open wide enough to put an egg in a balloon.

http://www.medical-tools.com/shop/images/D/elastrator-L-01.jpg

You can pick them up at most any Tractor Supply or Farm and Fleet store...

I was looking for the one I had for something else last year but couldn't find it. It wasn't for rockets. It had more to do with my stepson's antics at the time.:dark:

I'm happy to say now that he has vastly improved.

As for the egglofter, Mary in the bakery dept. is still looking at me funny when I come in. I think i need to take the 2me in with me to show her, without the protection.

[JAL3]

I took my 2ME out again at my last club launch on the 13th so I could check out a few things. Knowing that I was heading to a competition in March, my club decided to hold a mock C eggloft duration contest. After the previous month's performance, I was feeling pretty smug. All my previous launches had been without any type of containment for the egg except for some sort of balloon. This time I wanted to try an egg capsule ordered from ASP. I put in a little dog barf to cushion the egg and sealed the capsule with some electrical tape. The capsule was then put into another balloon. I also wanted to try out the 24" "Over Easy" parachute I had ordered from ASP. It is octagonal and has the shrouds going all of the way over the canopy. I loaded a C6-3 and took it to the pad.

[JAL3]

My rocket was set up right next to Art Applewhite's entry. His was based on the 2 Minute Egg but made completely from cardstock. His went first and turned in a quite respectable time.

[JAL3]

Then it was my turn and I just knew I was going to beat Art and the only other entry thus far which had streamered in.

[JAL3]

Mine took off and seemed to cock just a bit at first but was quickly flying straight and true. My victory was in the bag.

[JAL3]

The ejection event occurred right at apogee and my victory seemed assured right up until people pointed out that my chute was not opening. It streamered all the way down and landed with a thud. Strangely enough, the egg did not break. It also failed to break twice when it was thrown across the field. It finally managed to break on the third throw. It seems that one of the shrouds got hung up in a fin. This was the "over the canopy" part.

[JAL3]

I had one more chance under our rules so I very carefully repacked the chute and installed another C6-3. This time I also ditched the capsule. The rocket was taken to the pad to await my turn.

[JAL3]

The second flight was in all respects a repeat of the first. The rocket flew well. The chute ejected at apogee. The shroud caught in a fin and failed to open. The rocket streamered in and the egg survived the crash, although one of the shrouds did not.

Art garnered the victory.

[JAL3]

Strangely enough, my 2ME survived two flights without proper deployment but somehow suffered a broken fin while sitting on my launch table. It also had just a bit of a zipper to contend with. I needed to get it fixed before the sanctioned competition my club planned (its first) to give me some more experience before heading to Dallas.

[JAL3]

The fin was glued back into place with some Titebond II.

[JAL3]

When the glue was dry, I applied some Titebond Molding and Trim fillets.

[JAL3]

The zips were repaired from the inside with some tape.

[JAL3]

One of the events at my first sanctioned competition was a C eggloft duration. This time the payload compartment consisted of a nylon stocking in order to maintain the family friendly atmosphere we strive for (we had 4 A Division competitors). I did not use a capsule and I packed a 24" garbage bag chute. The motor was an Estes C6-3.

[JAL3]

The boost was nice and straight but too high for the cloud cover we had.

[JAL3]

We didn't see the ejection because it was in the clouds but eventually somebody saw a chute and we could all track it down. When the time passed the current first place, I got a bit excited.

[JAL3]

When I picked it up, the egg was undamaged. I had 75 seconds. It was enough for first place.

[JAL3]

In preparing for the DARS Bloomin’ Open, and all other contests I might ever enter, I order some decals from Gordon of Excelsior. The main thing I ordered was a bunch of NAR logos with my membership number but I also asked if he could design something to make the 2 Minute Egg a bit more distinctive. He came through, as always.

I cut out one of the membership numbers and soaked it in water and then applied it to one of the fins. It looked much better than the peel off price tag I had scribbled my number on before.

[JAL3]

I then cut out the logo Gordon had made for me. It may not be the Mona Lisa but it was just what I was looking for.

[JAL3]

Both decals were applied to the body cone on opposite sides of each other. In both cases, I let one edge curl under a little bit and did not notice the problem until things were too far along to rectify without damaging the decal. Even so, my 2 Minute Egg looked better than any others I had seen.

[JAL3]

OOPS! I just realized I never finished this!

[JAL3]

The C Eggloft was one event at the DARS Bloomin’ Open where I thought I had a real shot at placing. It was windy but the wind would affect everyone else as well. My examination of the soil indicated that it was not as hard as the field I normally fly in at home so I decided to adopt my high risk strategy of encasing the egg in a nylon stocking and nothing more. The rocket was prepped with a 24” chute and an Estes C6-3 and taken to the pad.

[JAL3]

The liftoff and boost was all I could have asked for. It weathercocked a little bit into the wind but not as much as many of the others I had seen. Deployment was the problem. When the chute ejected, it failed to open up. It came hurtling down with nothing more than a “streamer” and I knew the egg was doomed. That’s when the miracle happened.

[JAL3]

Instead of slamming into the ground, the entire rocket got snagged in a low branch and just bobbled up and down. I was informed that, as long as the egg was OK, it would be a qualified flight since deployment had occurred and it was ruled a safe flight. I walked out to recover it and saw that the egg was indeed intact. I untangled it from the branch and carried it back to the return desk to unpack. Though it was not a great flight, I was inordinately pleased with myself right until I returned it. That’s when fate took back what the miracle had given.

A strong gust of wind grabbed the rump of a chute as I held it out. The wind slammed the stacking against the lens of the camera around my neck and it was no longer intact. Since I had not yet handed it over, it was a DQ.

[JAL3]

I still had another shot so I loaded another C6-3. My nylons had blown away so I reverted to a condom. I replaced the chute with a 24” mylar one and took it out to the pad.

[JAL3]

The second liftoff was much like the first with no apparent problem.

[JAL3]

The flight seemed even better than the first one.

[JAL3]

Ejection and deployment, however, revealed that the fickle finger of fate was not yet done with me. 3 shroud lines parted instantly and I had another streamer on my hands. The rocket and its fragile payload came down with a thunk in the North Texas dirt. To my amazement, though, the egg was unbroken. I took it back to the return desk and was credited with a qualified flight. It even managed to place 6th. Others were having a hard time with the wind as well.