Venting!!! (Not Rocketry related)

[kelltym88]

OK...from time to time people come on here and vent about life, well now I guess it's my turn.

I go to work yesterday, and I had to go put something in my boss's office. I noticed a piece of paper that looked familiar sitting on top of his desk. Upon further examination, it was an email response I had sent to somebody else, but it was from my personal email account, nothing having to do with work. Yes, I have the privilege of using a computer at work. Yes I can access my personal email account while I'm at work. But, I only do it during my break and lunch. It is in no way tied into any work emails or programs. I shut my computer off everyday when I leave, when I came in yesterday, it was on (which is fine, my boss uses it to scan documents), but I did not leave it on, or have anything open for him to go "Hmmmm, what's this...." When I turn on my computer, none of my personal stuff automatically comes on. For example, if you click on the Firefox tab, it does not go directly to my email, it goes to a blank page with the Google search box. You'd have to click on my bookmarks, then scroll down to find my email account, click on that. Or, if you click on my Yahoo Messenger, for those that have it, you know how it works. Point is, you have to go looking around trying to get into my personal email.

And the paper that was printed....it was an email saying I could not make an interview. I put in an application for a second job, after hours, away from job No.1, which is none of anybody's damn business! Yes, I had my email setup in such a way as my password was saved. Lesson learned, and I'll fix/have fixed that. I did some research to see if it was legal to do that, and the responses were about 50/50, it's the company computer they can do what they want, or it's an invasion of privacy. Then my boss tells me he wants to have a "Personal " meeting with me. How's he gonna say " Oh went into your personal email and found this." I am furious, but also this is making me a nervous wreck. We talk later today. I want to *&%&^(%%%$&%#%&^%#$^%&%#$^@^!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

[fyrwrxz]

Had something similar happen to me. I updated my resume and hit the print cue without checking to see where the print was routed. Guess what? Boss's office. Behind a locked door. Thank the stars I didn't fill out an on line appilcation! Yeah-he was pretty steamed thinking I was leaving...

[FastCargo]

Most companies pretty much have in their contracts to have no expectation of privacy when using their computers. You could probably fight that, but it probably isn't worth the legal cost.

FC

[AfterBurners]

It's your right to look for another job. I do it here at work and I'm a contractor. Just explain to him that you are staying but need a second job to pay bills and what not?. I don't think it will be a problem.

[cavecentral]

Yeah, I think you're screwed. It is a pretty crappy thing when they do that. I remote to my home computer from work and do personal stuff there. I wouldn't save any personal passwords / accounts on a work PC. Should your job end, that PC is theirs. You may not have an opportunity to clean all your personal files/links/passwords off of it.

[kelltym88]

Me leaving is not the issue....This is my main job and I plan on keeping it. The interview was for a second job. I have signed no contract regarding computer usage. It just stems me he went into my personal account.

[Bravo52]

I guess they allow you to surf the rocket forums as well as personal email. That being the case, It might be prudent not to post about it until it's resolved. Perhaps your boss may get the wrong impression about your venting. Just say'n.

[sunward]

... I put in an application for a second job, after hours, away from job No.1, which is none of anybody's damn business! ...
I would like to put in a comment from an employer's point of view.

First, laws are different everywhere, so if is very hard to give you "legal" advice.

This is almost like photocopying a resume and leaving the original on the machine.

If I saw an employee looking for work elsewhere, that would be a concern. (Yes this is a part time second job, but without more details, it would be hard to comment specifically.)

People have been fired for looking elsewhere.

Keep all personal information off of work computers. Do not use them.

Some systems, such as in government and finance, have all emails and access monitored. So changing the browser so it doesn't remember your password may not do anything.

[qquake2k]

OK...from time to time people come on here and vent about life, well now I guess it's my turn.

I go to work yesterday, and I had to go put something in my boss's office. I noticed a piece of paper that looked familiar sitting on top of his desk. Upon further examination, it was an email response I had sent to somebody else, but it was from my personal email account, nothing having to do with work. Yes, I have the privilege of using a computer at work. Yes I can access my personal email account while I'm at work. But, I only do it during my break and lunch. It is in no way tied into any work emails or programs. I shut my computer off everyday when I leave, when I came in yesterday, it was on (which is fine, my boss uses it to scan documents), but I did not leave it on, or have anything open for him to go "Hmmmm, what's this...." When I turn on my computer, none of my personal stuff automatically comes on. For example, if you click on the Firefox tab, it does not go directly to my email, it goes to a blank page with the Google search box. You'd have to click on my bookmarks, then scroll down to find my email account, click on that. Or, if you click on my Yahoo Messenger, for those that have it, you know how it works. Point is, you have to go looking around trying to get into my personal email.

And the paper that was printed....it was an email saying I could not make an interview. I put in an application for a second job, after hours, away from job No.1, which is none of anybody's damn business! Yes, I had my email setup in such a way as my password was saved. Lesson learned, and I'll fix/have fixed that. I did some research to see if it was legal to do that, and the responses were about 50/50, it's the company computer they can do what they want, or it's an invasion of privacy. Then my boss tells me he wants to have a "Personal " meeting with me. How's he gonna say " Oh went into your personal email and found this." I am furious, but also this is making me a nervous wreck. We talk later today. I want to *&%&^(%%%$&%#%&^%#$^%&%#$^@^!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

Do you have any idea why your boss was poking around on your computer in the first place?

[k-rad du0d]

You have no reasonable expectation of privacy while using company computers and internet access.

[troj]

A couple things...

First and foremost, there shouldn't be an expectation of privacy on company-owned computers or networks. Many employers document this in their IT policies.

Second, saving a personal password on a computer that you don't own is a bad idea.

Finally, I note that you're complaining about a violation of privacy, yet you went into your boss' office and read papers sitting on his desk. While you may have had legitimate reason to go into his office to put something on his desk, that doesn't give you legitimate reason to peruse what's there. What if it had been a personal matter regarding someone else? Or other confidential information?

-Kevin

[H_Rocket]

Heck during the implementation of our Data Loss Prevention system, we wore t-shirts that said:

"DLP Team - We Read Your E-Mail"

[CPUTommy]

Its VERY Simple.

The boss pays for internet, Hence ALL INTERNET traffic is HIS and HIS ONLY... What you do on the work PC is tracked and loged into the router before it leaves the office.

There is NO PRIVACY while on his INTERNET...

Your lucky he dont can you for using his resources, like electricity, Pc usage, Your hourly salary, Internet usage, etc...

Now the acuall document you sent from your work PC is property of the boss, Reguardless if you or someone eles wrote it. It came from his IP.. so ultimatley HIS responsablity.... Try sending a real nasty email to the whitehouse and see if your boss has any responsablity....

A small town around here had an internet problem, (slow)

I loged into the router and disallowed Youtube,Facebook, and a few other sites like comcast's email, verizons email..

A wonderful thing happend, the town hall started to be productive...

When I walk into the building.. The looks I get are AWESOME...

And when someone asks me how come they cant get to this site.. I look at them and say, because your not allowed...

[kelltym88]

Do you have any idea why your boss was poking around on your computer in the first place?

That's what I was wondering




saving a personal password on a computer that you don't own is a bad idea.

Yes..As I mentioned, lesson learned

Finally, I note that you're complaining about a violation of privacy, yet you went into your boss' office and read papers sitting on his desk. While you may have had legitimate reason to go into his office to put something on his desk, that doesn't give you legitimate reason to peruse what's there. What if it had been a personal matter regarding someone else? Or other confidential information?

I was waiting for that question, and you are correct. Only thing is, what caught my eye was the name of the company I was corresponding with. It seemed odd he would have the same company name and info. And it's not like he was hiding it, it was right out in the open. When I looked and saw all my personal email info, then I knew. Don't tell me anyone here on this forum wouldn't do the same. And again, I didn't go looking for it, it was out in the open. On my personal email, there are steps to take to get to it.
-Kevin

And while I understand "the company" has the right to monitor what's going on their computers, they don't have the right to search out someones personal accounts with out some cause or reason (which I am waiting to find out myself). There have to be some limitations.

[AfterBurners]

keep us posted. I would like to know why your boss is snooping around in your system

[Marc_G]

kelltym88-

I wish you luck in your discussion, and share curiousity as to how it goes.

Many folks have already covered the "your employer owns anything you do on a work computer over work internet" so I'll explore a different concept that may be less intuitive:

Anything you do on a work computer, and particularly anything you do using work internet access, should be assumed to be:
Visible to your boss
Visible to your CEO or other executives
Visible to your IT department
Visible to ALL OUTSOURCED IT servicers.

Effectively, this means that Sanjay Krishnavarti or whoever in Mumbai who works for the company that runs your company's proxy server or malware filtering software etc. now has a copy of your mail password or any other confidential info handled on the computer.

Seriously.

It's no big task for unscrupulous folks to sniff the traffic and pull out stuff like that. I've got a good friend who was in corp IT security for a while, and he used to tell me stories about things he sniffed just for fun.

Also, you should expect that your internet use is tracked, both in terms of time spent active on pages and in data usage, and that these will be compiled into buckets labeled "likely work related" and "likely not work related" and subsequently reported up the chain. Folks that do a lot of non-work-related internet access at work are costing the company $$ and tend to be let go.

As the sophistocation with which these monitoring activities has increased, my own usage of company internet / computer for personal stuff has dropped precipitously. That's what my smartphone is for. My own company blocks typical time-wasting sites (all youtube/social networking / personal email services) and even recently prevented our company-issued blackberries from doing many of these things. I got a smartphone when they imposed controls on the blackberry which was previously my only cell phone.

The new normal is that some level of personal use is expected and not to be freaked out over, but that you should assume that your email is being read by your boss and half of the third world if you use a company computer. As for me, if I'm checking whether something is available at the local Bestbuy or whatever, I may use the company computer because I'm not embarrassed about it, and my home page at work is cnn.com, so it's not like I never do non-work-related stuff. But I make sure it's nothing confidential or anything I would be embarrassed about if it came up in a management meeting.

I recommend you do the same.

Best wishes!

Marc

[MaxQ]

So, .......what was the outcome?

[JDcluster]

Do yourself a favor and get a smart phone. That way you can e-mail and txt all you want without your boss looking over your shoulder.


JD


Me leaving is not the issue....This is my main job and I plan on keeping it. The interview was for a second job. I have signed no contract regarding computer usage. It just stems me he went into my personal account.

[o1d_dude]

Do yourself a favor and get a smart phone. That way you can e-mail and txt all you want without your boss looking over your shoulder.
JD

And don't use bandwidth off your employers wireless system, either. Stick with the 3G or whatever your smartphone uses.

[kelltym88]

First of all, let me clarify. While this is a company computer, we only have 4 people who use them, so we don't have a huge IT dept or anything like that. We do have a server and everything is backed up, but nothing set up like a huge corporation, which we are not.

That being said, here's what happened:
As he was turning on my computer to use it, he noticed the little Yahoo messenger icon. He says he clicked on it and up popped all this information. He said he wasn't searching around looking for something. I tried to explain ti him that it doesn't just pop up, the log in screen comes up first. I also said that we don't have that internet service. At any rate, he pulled the "it's the companies computer, and I have the right to see what ever is on it" despite the fact I told him that that was my personal account that I pay for and use at home. Basically it comes down to this: Don't leave anything personal accessible, because the company has the right to see it.

I don't agree with it 100%, people should have some privacy. But from now on, my breaks and lunches are going to spent in a much different way. I wasn't abusing my usage in any way. I've deleted some programs and am in the process of changing passwords. So I guess the moral of the story is, you can have no personal time at work. Anything personal or private, KEEP AT HOME.

[dr wogz]

I feel for ya, but at the same time, I know what both sides are going thru..

Here at work, some may rememer I hate my job.. Nay, I hate some of the policies, the favoritism, the really stupid decisions my boss makes, etc..

But we've also had a clamp-down. In order to improve moral, (and hopefully improve the bottom line) we've had a massive amount of sites blocked. It seems our I-net resources have been used extencively for facebook, personal e-mail, torrent downloads, movie streaming, radio, porn, etc.. The boss don't get it "take care of your employees, and they'll take care of you.."

And here i am, 8:45am typing a responce on a forum that has nothing to do with work.. I still have a few sources for my personal enjoyment (preservation?!)

No, I really don't care if & what they know..

[MaxQ]

Well at least you didn't get sacked...these days businesses may be looking for use any excuse.
Depending on the way your boss delivered the information - maybe he is more concerned about you leaving than using the company computer....which is a good thing.

I work in local Government...they are very strict about computer use, and our IT blocks access to Twitter, Facebook, Youtube etc.
Unfortunate because working cases going to public hearing - a lot of public comment is made on Facebook and Twitter.
I'm working a case right now that has a an illegal use that could jeapardize public health safety and welfare and the evidence against the business owner is on those sites.

As for using a company device for personal use...is a call form my wife on the company phone to discuss groceries list personal use? Is having iTunes to play music when I work weekends a personal use?
Also...why they give us "company computers" with Solitaire games installed and internet links to weather and news and sports is confusing to say the least.

[lab man]

They remove solitaire from our computers.

[dr wogz]

Oh, we're allowed to install anything on our "work" computers. Anything we want, from any sorce..

they keep track of our I-net useage, but don't care if our software is legit.. or current, or...

[Launch Lug]

I use to work at a firm where they had some lock down policies put in place after the night cleaning crew was caught surfing the net looking at "forbidden" sites. I can completely understand a companies concerns about personal use on company computers but there has to be a limit. True, if you store personal files such as written documents or photos on the computers hard drive they have the right to search through those especially if it's outlined in company policy. I would think that they even have the right to fire up your computer to search your browse history as amongst other things. What I cant agree with is the notion that a company has the right to get on "your" computer and log on to a personal non-business related site like an email provider and just rummage through your emails as what sounds to be the case here. If the page was already pulled up as the boss alleges then that perhaps is a different matter. The point is the company owns the computer and pays for the internet usage but they do not own the information on the internet or the sites that a person may visit, in this case an email provider (Yahoo mail, Hot mail, Google etc. excluding a company provided email like Outlook) The company I use to work for had remote access set up for its employees so you could check your work email from home or another site if they were away from the office. Those computers would be linked and it might be necessary to use the work computer to access the home computer too. Would it be acceptable for an employer to use a company owned computer to access an employees personal home computer if it was set up to do so (usernames and passwords saved on work computer)? I cant see how that would be legal and I don't see how this boss could go into an employees non business email provider and look through his emails, again unless the page was already up on the screen and he saw it. Seems fishy to me. That's like saying its ok for the owner of a rental property to open and read its tenants mail. Yes they own the building and the mailbox and even have the right to enter the property if necessary but that does not entitle them the right to read your mail.

Whatever the case may be one thing I learned is there is almost NO privacy nor should there be any expected when using a company computer. Sounds like it worked out in the end for you.

[kelltym88]

My computer was off, nothing left open. When you turn it on, because we use XP pro, you have to enter a password. My wallpaper comes up and all the programs load. After a few minutes, the only thing that pops up is my printer telling me it's ready to use. All the programs I use have the icons on the bottom task bar. Yahoo Messenger was one of them. Clicking on that button in and of itself does not bring up my email, as he claims it did. The log-in screen appears. My mistake was having my user name and password saved there. Once clicking continue, then the friends/contact list loads and also the most recent emails. But, only the subject lines. One still has to click on that, then it takes you directly into your email. Short story, no it wasn't open, and it just doesn't pop up. He went snooping, claiming he had the right because it's the company's computer. When I explained it just doesn't "pop up" and that it was my personal email account he was in, in so many words I was told I was foolish for having personal stuff on my computer. He was never looking to fire me (at least I don't think so), but was more concerned about what he saw (the email about a job interview). But he printed it out, and not just that one, but he went and printed one out from back in February. Now how does that just pop up? B&** S^%#!!!

He was wrong, and is hiding behind the veil of "the company" blah blah blah. But, I've learned from this and am moving forward, albeit much more cautious than before.

[Marc_G]

Kellym88,

I don't think you get it. You set up a work computer with all the passwords needed to access your personal emails, and used that computer and work internet to access them. This made it fair game for your boss, no mantter how many clicks, intentional or not, were required to access them.

In fact, you made work RESPONSIBLE for any emails you sent, or any other information you sent out on that computer.

To avoid issues like this, employers are increasingly simply blocking personal stuff either at the level of the computer itself or their firewall.

You may think he's being nosy, and realistically, he was (sure!), but it's common practice for companies to analyze outgoing traffic using automated tools and report to a human for investigation anything inappropriate.

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but using your work computer to do anything related to finding other work (even a moonlighting gig) is inappropriate.

Fortunately there was no serious consequence (termination) and it's a live and learn scenario.

Marc

[1tree]

I see multiple issues here. But first I put a separation between legality and morality. In my opinion you can be legal an unethical. And you can be ethical and illegal. I choose not to allow legalities to dictate my ethics. But as I see things:

1) You may or may not have had any moral expectation of privacy. Since you share the PC with others and have no log in, saving any password is really a bad idea.The reality could be that a co-worker dug it out and gave it to the boss.

2) If your looking for a second job it is often a good idea to let the first job know about it. In some places you have an obligation to do so. But that would have prevented you from the uncomfortable situation had you told your boss you were looking at a second job.

3) Your boss should not have left the document on his desk where anyone could have seen it. And quite honestly, that is what would bother me the most.

4) When accessing personal stuff from work one should practice some caution. As in use a web browser with an encrypted session. Better yet, put your browser into "porn" mode so that nothing is left in your history or cache. (This is usually labeled as "private" or "incognito")

[kelltym88]

I see multiple issues here. But first I put a separation between legality and morality. In my opinion you can be legal an unethical. And you can be ethical and illegal. I choose not to allow legalities to dictate my ethics. But as I see things:

1) You may or may not have had any moral expectation of privacy. Since you share the PC with others and have no log in, saving any password is really a bad idea.The reality could be that a co-worker dug it out and gave it to the boss.

Ummm...You didn't read the whole thread obviously....a co-worker did not dig it out...it was off, the boss turned it on, and went from there......

2) If your looking for a second job it is often a good idea to let the first job know about it. In some places you have an obligation to do so. But that would have prevented you from the uncomfortable situation had you told your boss you were looking at a second job.

I disagree. What I do after hours is none of their business. One time I did mention I was looking for an additional job, and the first words out his mouth were " make sure it doesn't affect your work here"... blah blah blah. As far as I'm concerned, they don't need to know.

3) Your boss should not have left the document on his desk where anyone could have seen it. And quite honestly, that is what would bother me the most.

Agreed!

4) When accessing personal stuff from work one should practice some caution. As in use a web browser with an encrypted session. Better yet, put your browser into "porn" mode so that nothing is left in your history or cache. (This is usually labeled as "private" or "incognito")

As I mentioned, I've learned from this, and caution will be taken in the future.