Some RC Rocket Planes...

[burkefj]

I usually post on rcgroups, in the pusher propjets section, but I've lately been building my jets with a 24mm rocket pod so I can fly them as a pusher with the electric motor in the rocket pod, or as a rocket glider. Rob Edmonds said I should share them over here. If you read some of the other rocket forums, I hope you don't think I'm spamming, but I'm just trying to share what I've done. I built primarily in depron foam, profiles which has the advantage of light weight, very low wing loading, and you can build them large enough to see, yet they weight from 9-12 oz ready to fly with motor, so you can fly them on E-6 aerotech reloads to pretty good height. I've put most of the plans in the pusher parkjets plans thread on rcgroups for free download if anyone is interested.

For scale the bomarc and the jayhawk are 48" long, the interceptor is 44" long and the X-15 is 39" long. The interceptor was my favorite rocket as a kid, I drew it freehand, upsized and moved the wing forward, and added a tail, but it still keeps the look pretty well.

This might open your horizons to something other than tubes, and maybe encourage you to experiment with some different materials and building styles.

Most of these can be built out of a single sheet of 39" by 27" depron and can be cut out and built in a day or two.

I have a bunch more youtube videos of other rocket planes, Natter, ME-163, XF-91 thunderceptor with airstart motors and electric pusher, etc just surf around.

Here is the test flight of the interceptor before painting on electric:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_eb1BVIDZ4

The bomarc rocket flight:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epsCz1gt4Gs

and the X-15:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koO4XftiLSM


Let me know if you have any questions, or comments, good, bad, or otherwise.

Frank

[rokitflite]

All VERY cool... They're missing the fire & smoke though:(.

[burkefj]

Rockitflite, You just need to watch through the videos, they all fly on rocket(fire and smoke also). They all have a 24mm mount and can fly either electric or composite E-6. Most of the videos show both, except the interceptor which was just the first electric test flight...Or did you mean the E-6 doesn't have enough fire and smoke for you:)


Frank



All VERY cool... They're missing the fire & smoke though:(.

[bsexton]

Frank - Very nicely done and I particularly liked the Bomarc video.

[rokitflite]

Rockitflite, You just need to watch through the videos, they all fly on rocket(fire and smoke also). They all have a 24mm mount and can fly either electric or composite E-6. Most of the videos show both, except the interceptor which was just the first electric test flight...Or did you mean the E-6 doesn't have enough fire and smoke for you:)


Frank


Ahhhh! OK, the actual Bomarc video footage was a bit too long and I skipped over it and obviously I went too far and missed the rocket powered portion... VERY COOL! Thanks!

[burkefj]

Mike, I'd love to see your bomarc and X-15. The depron I normally use is 6mm thick and is around 175 sq inches per ounce, and the 3mm of course is half of that, so a bit lighter than yours. You can do a lot with formers and skinning with 3mm and 2mm, if you want to be more complicated and do a more rounded fuse and cut weight some. I'm sure your planes fly quite well, my airframe weight is around 3-6 ounces without electronics for most of my planes, and I'm carying the rx,servos, and the ignition electrics onboard.

How did you do the balast/cg for your boost gliders, I've found with this size and with the aerotech reload, that the CG shift isn't enough that I need any balast drop, I can compensate with a little elevator and they launch and land fine that way. I would think you need some more forward CG for hands off and then either some auto-up trim or dump the rocket/nose weight.

I'm currently working on an A-4B....Rc...here is the template.


Frank




Very very nice, Frank!

Just how light is this Depron foam you are referring to? I tend to use a foamcore variant that comes in around 125-150 sq in per ounce. Also, since I cant afford RC at this point (especially for the dozens of gliders I have, some very large) all of mine are FF.

I really like the way you 'aircrafted' that Interceptor. Its now a flyable aircraft planform but still looks completely 'rockety'. Quite a nice touch there.

Interestingly enough, I see you have a Bomarc and X-15 that are about the same size as the rocket powered gliding versions Im using. Easily made and the Bomarc glides better than youd think (I actually THERMALLED OFF the last large Bomarc back 3yrs ago).

I'll try to post some of my stuff here on the new TRF if I still may.

[bsexton]

Frank - what "rcgroups" are you specifically referring to?

[burkefj]

Frank - what "rcgroups" are you specifically referring to?

Oh, sorry, www.rcgroups.com

pusher parkjets are here, even though they are rockets, I also fly them with a pusher motor, so post them there....as the rocket thread doesn't seem very active.

http://www.rcgroups.com/pusher-prop-jet-models-237/

[burkefj]

Yeah, I was making an attempt to make the video entertaining, and tried to put the rocket segue with the actual launches:)



Ahhhh! OK, the actual Bomarc video footage was a bit too long and I skipped over it and obviously I went too far and missed the rocket powered portion... VERY COOL! Thanks!

[burkefj]

Here's the A-4B painted and ready to go.

[burkefj]

Here is a compilation of the four maiden rocket RC flights from this morning, enjoy.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzMDwrOtjC0

[MaxQ]

Frank - what "rcgroups" are you specifically referring to?


This particular link might interest you....
http://www.rcgroups.com/rocketry-242/

[Pantherjon]

Here is a compilation of the four maiden rocket RC flights from this morning, enjoy.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzMDwrOtjC0

Nice video! Olivia does a fine job with the camera! ;)

Awesome flights too! I didn't realize those motors had such a long burn time! Nice! :D

[burkefj]

I saw some photos of Rokitflite's Mach 10 upscale and that got me all excited, so I worked up a profile frame and flew it. I'm waiting for the body tube to finish the rest in silver. Most of this post I put in rcgroups rocketry, but that is kind of a slow forum, and thought you guys here might be interested. I tried to keep the look of the mach10 while not having to drop nose weight, and not have to mount the wings on the bottom so it will be structurally stronger with the way I build them(cruciform fuse) and will allow me to keep the thrust line down the middle and not have to have the top fin drag.

I framed it up, and added the carbon last night, did some glide tests, figured out the CG and installed the electrics. So, it is all done except for the body tube, and painting. AUW with electric is 10 oz and a 1320 pack, AUW with rocket installed and a 730 3s pack for igniting/rx power is 9oz. Hoping the tube won't add more than an ounce or two.

WS is 30" and length 22, I made the nose pointed, so imagine the tube covering the fuse, with the wings sticking out the sides, and the pointy nose red, sticking out of the front of the tube. The launch lug is mounted on the xform fuse.

I did some glide tests in the back yard and all looked good, so I did a maiden with the pusher electric. half throttle was plenty, it was a bit roll and pitch sensitive and I had put in too much up trim. So I landed, took out the up trim, toned down the roll and pitch and moved the battery forward an inch. It flew great with that setting, glide was slightly nose down, and very good, roll rate was good, if a little non-axial. Loops with the battery more forward were a little larger than I liked, so I increased the throws on pich a bit again.

The little stub horizontal stab didn't seem to affect the pitch control in any adverse way.

Flew great, landed after 10 minutes, landing was very predicatable.

I then installed the rocket motor with the flight CG marked and found out I could use a lighter battery for the same CG with the rocket, and the burnout CG was only 1/2" forward, so I won't need to drop or move any weight after boost. I think it keeps the look of the mach 10 pretty well, we'll see how it looks when the body tube arrives.

[rokitflite]

Aaaaaaand the launch photos are where???:D

[Fred22]

Thanks very much. I especially enjoyed your BOMARC video and your rocket plane is too cool for words.
Thanks again
Fred

[burkefj]

I've flown it on electric, didn't fly it on rocket yet as I didn't have my daughter here to video, and I'm still waiting for the body tube, I'd rather video once it is all painted, otherwise I feel obligated to re-video after the paint is on:)

Frank



Aaaaaaand the launch photos are where???:D

[burkefj]

Here she is, got the tube tonight, attached it and cut the hatches, tube added 3oz, even for a light tube, that was surprising, but still should be fine for the motors and auw with rocket. I'll try flying on electric tomorrow if the weather is ok. It also added more nose weight, so I had to re-mark my CG with the batteries further rearward. Assuming the flight goes ok, I'll paint the fuse and wings and get her ready for this weekend.

Frank

[burkefj]

Test flight with electric and body tube installed was fine, even though it was windy and snowing:) Painted her up.

Frank

[rokitflite]

OOOOOO! Shiny! VERY good looking! I can't wait to see the performance with a rocket in its tail.:D

[zog139]

Test flight with electric and body tube installed was fine, even though it was windy and snowing:) Painted her up.

Frank

What diameter tube did you use ? Could you show us some pictures of the electronics install setup ? How about your control surfaces? Your pictures of it painted are really nice. The Mach-10 is a candidate for an upscale RC "fun" model I would like to do.

Jim

[burkefj]

Jim, I didn't take a photo before glueing on the body tube, it is a BT101 tube, slightly under 4", I sized my airframe 4" and had to trim slightly once I got the tube to allow it to slide on. I put three small hatches on the right hand side to access the battery, speed control, and receiver, because on mine, I pull out the electric pusher and put in another esc/wire bundle for doing a rocket launch, I simply put a strip of velcro down the side of the lower right receiver and put some velcro on the wiring, and esc, and then just drop it in, connect it to the rx and velcro it down.

I always put the electronics on the lower right, as that weight counter acts the torque of the electric somewhat and I usually don't need any aileron trim.

The receiver is a spektrum so no long antenna, and is held in place with velcro also.


The elevons are simple HS-55's using double back tape for attachment, works fine for the foamies. I've attached a picture of one elevon side and also, the electric pusher bundle with velcro tabs, very simple and works well for multiple models. For a hatch, I just cut it out, and used hinge tape(blenderm) for the hinge and some velcro for the attachment, it isn't really pretty but works ok, once I get it up and running well, I'll probably do something nicer with magnets. The tape on the bottom of the wing is to reinforce the carbon that is inlayed into the foam and CA'd. Normally it isn't obvious but that testors Chrome shows anything that isn't perfectly smooth.


Frank




What diameter tube did you use ? Could you show us some pictures of the electronics install setup ? How about your control surfaces? Your pictures of it painted are really nice. The Mach-10 is a candidate for an upscale RC "fun" model I would like to do.

Jim

[burkefj]

Here she is finished. It just looked too much like a mig to put stars and bars on it, I really wanted to use my "jet intake" and "rescue" decals on it, I tried to convince myself it was a captured russian experimental plane, but in the end just left it "sort of" soviet.

Frank

[zog139]

Thanks for the info and the additonal pics.

Nice Job


Jim

[burkefj]

Here is the rocket flight video and pusher electric video, turned out pretty well, I rolled into a split ess on the rocket flight to keep it from getting too small in the video camera. This was using an aerotech E-6RC reload.

I've since upped my elevon throw and moved the CG back a bit, as I was having trouble flaring on the rocket flight due to a bit forward CG and lack of sufficient throw. Works pretty well and looks great, very stable on boost, in fact, my first rocket flight I had a spektrum lockout during boost, came back on about 5 seconds into the rocket boost, but it was pretty straight none-the-less, given it was a non-responsive receiver:)

Enjoy the video, and thanks to my 11 year old daughter for getting it all on camera.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OyWGVOJKoo

[GuyNoir]

Enjoy the video, and thanks to my 11 year old daughter for getting it all on camera.

Great camera work! (I hope Dad gave her a nice present for her work! ;)

[Fred22]

First off thats a brilliant looking rocket and the camera work was oustanding :) Well done to you and your girl :) I like the red stars as that thing sure looks like a Mig-15 to me :)
Cheers
fred

[burkefj]

Thanks for the compliments, and yes, my daughter got a good "payoff":)

Someone just emailed me that they were just thinking of doing this same design as an electric ducted fan, should work well that way too.

Frank



First off thats a brilliant looking rocket and the camera work was oustanding :) Well done to you and your girl :) I like the red stars as that thing sure looks like a Mig-15 to me :)
Cheers
fred

[burkefj]

Here is a link including the latest plans for the Interceptor, Mach 10, A-4B and jayhawk. Enjoy.

Frank

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=979395#post11284823

[AKPilot]

Well, during retirement I know how my afternoons are going to be spent! These are totally awesome!

Sounds like someone should be doing a business plan at this point.

[burkefj]

Here is my latest, 48" long, 12oz RTF, waiting for maiden this weekend. Made from 6mm depron, 24mm mount, sharpie pens for panel lines and monokote self adhesive trim
for markings plus a few stars/bars from sig and some vinyl lettering, nothing exotic. Full flying tail for roll/pitch control the wings are fixed. Bottom plate to stiffen the fuse and give
some "top view" width to the model, due to the wings being on the bottom, I couldn't do a normal cruciform and still support the wings, so the bottom plate had to be a bit shorter
since the nose curves upward.

Enjoy.

Frank

[burkefj]

Here's the maiden flight video, two rocket launches and some electric flight.

Enjoy

Frank

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gZrboJyUog

[ddmobley]

It's good to see Frank back in hobby rocketry. I am still lovin' his IRIS! Thanks for coming back, Frank!

[burkefj]

Hey, glad to be back, I'm having a lot of fun combining the two hobbies!

That Iris was probably my best scratch built highpower rocket, I gave it to a friend of mine and it was destroyed in a CATO of an experimental motor at black rock:(

Frank


It's good to see Frank back in hobby rocketry. I am still lovin' his IRIS! Thanks for coming back, Frank!

[Fred22]

I really enjoy the videos especially the BOMARC :) It's a neat combination of hobbies and I thank you for bringing it here :)
Cheers
fred

[tdesmarais]

I just discovered this thread on Friday. Great looking planes and flights!
I just finished an F-106 Delta Dart in this same style. I flew it Saturday at the LUNAR launch. Here's a link to pictures:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/xb70man/sets/72157614221847705/
I was planning on making a pusher motor adapter as well.
-Tom

[burkefj]

Hey, that looks good, just like I would do:) If you set up your electronics so that you have velcro tabs on the esc and wiring, you can then just click in the motor, and velcro the esc and wiring down and hook it up to the RX. Once you have that, you can use the same bundle to power any number of planes, so you don't have to invest in the motor/esc any more. That's what I did. The Deltas are great rocket gliders, same as a Draken, or a number of other delta designs, thanks for posting this.

Frank

[ddmobley]

Hey, glad to be back, I'm having a lot of fun combining the two hobbies!

That Iris was probably my best scratch built highpower rocket, I gave it to a friend of mine and it was destroyed in a CATO of an experimental motor at black rock:(
Sorry to hear about the demise of the IRIS. By the way, Frank, I was able to grab a 99.9% complete copy of your old edu website if you would be interested in getting it back. Lots of neat stuff there. I downloaded it to go with your old website review. It is parked athttp://www.rocketryplanet.com/misha.ee.washington.edu/~burkefj/sub/rocketpage.html

[burkefj]

Wow, super, I'll check it out, thanks a bunch.

Frank



Sorry to hear about the demise of the IRIS. By the way, Frank, I was able to grab a 99.9% complete copy of your old edu website if you would be interested in getting it back. Lots of neat stuff there. I downloaded it to go with your old website review. It is parked

[Fred22]

Is the Vulcan bomber or the Canadian arrow a good candidate for this sort of project. How hard are these things to create and fly?
Cheers
fred

[burkefj]

Fred, I've done an arrow and plans are posted on my rcgroups blog(burkefj)
They are very straight forward to build. Print out sheets, tape together cut out, trace on foam, cut out, do a little edge sanding(no airfoil required) and glue together the sides, glue on wing, hinge elevons, and install electronics. They take a day or two to put together if you spend a few hours each night. As for flying, compared to most other rc planes they can fly very fast and very slow and are not difficult, if you haven't flown any rc planes, or can't land a simple rc plane or get confused, you don't want to start with one of these, but if you can fly a trainer type plane and not get confused with directions, these are straight forward, they do not land like you would expect a jet to land, much slower and much more forgiving.
Once you've done one or two, and get the idea then you can apply the same idea to pretty much anything.

Only isue I see with a vulcan is it is fairly short, so you have to watch your tail weight(motor) be able to get your CG correct without having to add a lot of nose weight, and getting a high wing loading. The wings are long also and if you build it too large a span you have to watch wing flex with a simple plate wing like I use. Something in the 30" range would be reasonable.

I normally use the same battery I use for electric flying to ignite the rocket via the xmitter, the aerotech E-6 weighs slightly less than my pusher motor, so my CG for launch is just rearward of flight cg which is ok for initial boost, and the end CG is just slightly forward which is also ok, since I already need the battery on the plane for CG I use it to light the motor. In the 8 or 9 that I've done that fly on both electric or rocket, I do not have to change my battery position at all when I switch between rocket and electric, I did do that on my Mach 10, simply because I was able to use a lighter battery for rocket boost and still have the correct CG.

Frank



Is the Vulcan bomber or the Canadian arrow a good candidate for this sort of project. How hard are these things to create and fly?
Cheers
fred

[Fred22]

Fred, I've done an arrow and plans are posted on my rcgroups blog(burkefj)
They are very straight forward to build. Print out sheets, tape together cut out, trace on foam, cut out, do a little edge sanding(no airfoil required) and glue together the sides, glue on wing, hinge elevons, and install electronics. They take a day or two to put together if you spend a few hours each night. As for flying, compared to most other rc planes they can fly very fast and very slow and are not difficult, if you haven't flown any rc planes, or can't land a simple rc plane or get confused, you don't want to start with one of these, but if you can fly a trainer type plane and not get confused with directions, these are straight forward, they do not land like you would expect a jet to land, much slower and much more forgiving.
Once you've done one or two, and get the idea then you can apply the same idea to pretty much anything.

Only isue I see with a vulcan is it is fairly short, so you have to watch your tail weight(motor) be able to get your CG correct without having to add a lot of nose weight, and getting a high wing loading. The wings are long also and if you build it too large a span you have to watch wing flex with a simple plate wing like I use. Something in the 30" range would be reasonable.

I normally use the same battery I use for electric flying to ignite the rocket via the xmitter, the aerotech E-6 weighs slightly less than my pusher motor, so my CG for launch is just rearward of flight cg which is ok for initial boost, and the end CG is just slightly forward which is also ok, since I already need the battery on the plane for CG I use it to light the motor. In the 8 or 9 that I've done that fly on both electric or rocket, I do not have to change my battery position at all when I switch between rocket and electric, I did do that on my Mach 10, simply because I was able to use a lighter battery for rocket boost and still have the correct CG.

Frank

Well thats some great info thanks man :) I have not flown R/c much so maybe I'll wait but man your stuff looks great so maybe I'll have to get out more with that stuff this year :)
Cheers
Fred