Nike Hercules MMX

[peter_stanley]

I designed a micro scale Nike Hercules, and started working on the sustainer this week. I ordered most of the parts from Fliskits.

I plan to fly the full stack as a single stage, four motor cluster. I did install a motor mount in the sustainer in case I figure a good way to stage it. I might fly the sustainer by itself if it's not too heavy.

Here are some pics of the build so far. I'm also attaching the Rocksim file, but the most current one can always be found on my site (http://www.rocketfreak.com/wp-content/plugins/download-monitor/download.php?id=34).

Rocksim images:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-2W6jnMguziA/T0-4UC8SeHI/AAAAAAAAUGU/KckHwrNoEII/s640/nh_mmx2d_2.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-WMSDHOXyIAE/T0-4TqQSEwI/AAAAAAAAUGM/XZxqh0P3bvI/s640/nh_mmx3d_2.jpg

The motor mount/tail cone assembly parts:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-pHCpete_y7E/T0-viQzRLxI/AAAAAAAAUFg/67OrrwhoRAM/s640/IMG_0800.JPG

I steamed the tail cone wrapper to help form it.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-TqgTKhd1foA/T0-vft5KzsI/AAAAAAAAUFY/6mnIULg0OKg/s640/IMG_0801.JPG

Motor mount: (I'm getting used to these tiny parts)
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Q7nv25mmhLw/T0_GVSgjhyI/AAAAAAAAUIw/K9u-trl3VnQ/s640/IMG_0805.JPG

Some pics of the tail cone assembly:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-iupDq0URx2U/T0_GkR4esJI/AAAAAAAAUI8/1CCjRPPGoxQ/s640/IMG_0807.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-n4p8e9YTKB4/T0_Gwyqtu7I/AAAAAAAAUJE/A0lxPC6bRtM/s640/IMG_0808.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-DYpHj20PKB8/T0_G1J7mPfI/AAAAAAAAUJM/_Nzr4_z-oJk/s640/IMG_0809.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-kPgUECkP-xg/T0_I6nFyRDI/AAAAAAAAUJk/JXGqwbUnGok/s640/IMG_0811.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-lasYSrh05wo/T0_JyCJm7kI/AAAAAAAAUKI/xYU1f8WPjDs/s640/IMG_0819.JPG

The new Fliskits NCB-5K nose cone is pretty close to the shape and length I needed.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6QPBCvLIWvU/T0_y7UI-N5I/AAAAAAAAUKY/Cwj-D7VwE2o/s640/IMG_0821.JPG

Roughly holding it together here:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-scTSFZynSec/T0_z0gy249I/AAAAAAAAULM/dOiMdNYFbt0/s640/IMG_0822.JPG

Fins:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-LbiAmiSFk54/T0_y7JOgqgI/AAAAAAAAUKc/w8bISpAdKgc/s640/IMG_0823.JPG

I'm finally making use of my Ulf's fin jig:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-tTV25Qdo7L0/T0_zSKP9K0I/AAAAAAAAUKo/iKMCFYFsxeo/s640/IMG_0824.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-0Gr7YBQj__s/T0_zu_dVz0I/AAAAAAAAULA/REAzYX-UAkU/s640/IMG_0826.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-4r6DZRblpG8/T0_zu6bW27I/AAAAAAAAUK8/9yWFOhTWHh0/s640/IMG_0827.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-htU-dOhKR9g/T0_0tQP5hyI/AAAAAAAAULo/A2T6NTJaZgQ/s640/IMG_0831.JPG

Starting to look really cool:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-DLTZMzOBUpU/T0_0umuH1dI/AAAAAAAAULw/XYpt_QxZcAo/s640/IMG_0832.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-d9kDawgF5dk/T0_1wk5ImSI/AAAAAAAAUMk/AfLt-65va_s/s640/IMG_0837.JPG

Bottom fins:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-sxtJB9mODd8/T0_-Yd0VUtI/AAAAAAAAUMw/gNy_G6513mc/s640/IMG_0839.JPG

That's pretty much where I'm at with it now.

[hornet driver]

Very nice and a cool subject to pick. Working in such a small scale is a HUGE effort, thanks for sharing,staying tuned. H

[gdjsky01]

Awesome! More More!!!

:wave:

[sandman]

I built mine about 7 years ago.

Here it is on the far right an NARAM 45.

The kit was put together by Carl Talanko.

G-10 fins.

[peter_stanley]

Thanks guys for all the comments. Here are two more pics. I'm officially done for the night. :)

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-dBW127lfUV4/T1AwwrK6vKI/AAAAAAAAUNQ/_ircKgsGNWI/s640/IMG_0842.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-QkO6R13ELI0/T1Aw0FfW5BI/AAAAAAAAUNY/VPvqvmXR-GE/s640/IMG_0843.JPG

[JPVegh]

Nike Hercules MMX :cool2:

You have my full and undivided attention.:pop:

[jflis]

Yep, this is sweet :) Looking forward to how this build goes and how she flies as well...

[Micromeister]

Cool Built:
Been meaning to build on based on T4 tubing for awhile. Look forward to seeing how this size flies.

[peter_stanley]

I'm mostly finished with the build. Here are the pics of what I've done so far.

Nose cone fins:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-cw2q1Pk8tHM/T1PZQlraS6I/AAAAAAAAUTk/ONCzRQ4lj18/s640/IMG_0895.JPG

Booster square to round transition. For a detail description of my convoluted method to produce this see here (http://www.rocketfreak.com/2250/making-square-to-round-transitions):
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-gaY--c8Ei2U/T1PKStNCB4I/AAAAAAAAUOc/P4LmtLtk1Zs/s640/IMG_0855.JPG

BT2.5 booster tubes:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-BaSyKVhbV20/T1PKVckMyzI/AAAAAAAAUOk/F3dcoa2oCGM/s640/IMG_0856.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-_b3ecWbOhps/T1PKW5HrMVI/AAAAAAAAUOs/fxyf849TGaI/s640/IMG_0857.JPG

Booster assembly:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-nTot4dZmXSI/T1PK0FZ4HvI/AAAAAAAAUO4/6cxqBRMhVZY/s640/IMG_0860.JPG

Making a BT-4 coupler:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-fNGWt_VVHco/T1PLDMW1nvI/AAAAAAAAUPI/oxmvQv5Ctys/s640/IMG_0861.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-m5f6zDaTLho/T1PLBbk47UI/AAAAAAAAUPA/Zt8lfB7TpXA/s640/IMG_0862.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-lR0MIt0ljHg/T1PLcp6AnXI/AAAAAAAAUPY/Xh4CMFP1HUA/s640/IMG_0863.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-2fc0_quNjTw/T1PLcbkixNI/AAAAAAAAUPU/bi2Hn4Kv48g/s640/IMG_0864.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-zD6pRlVkGjY/T1PLe-aHd7I/AAAAAAAAUPk/IcD53UA0G7o/s640/IMG_0865.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-HZ7aALn7s8s/T1PL7VKc2uI/AAAAAAAAUPs/ddL6HifahB0/s640/IMG_0868.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-WenAb7Z_YPY/T1PP3ySL6kI/AAAAAAAAUQc/b3OAihUGW1g/s640/IMG_0871.JPG

Tapered 1/16" basswood:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-f6UMBGmPtTk/T1PMaKZmtZI/AAAAAAAAUQQ/zUMw-UUQklM/s640/IMG_0870.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-YmwCePcb6y8/T1PQt9JoPII/AAAAAAAAURA/P6jK_eZ15DA/s640/IMG_0872.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-9J4I7ZiurZQ/T1PP9ie1iYI/AAAAAAAAUQk/3yPswEPDsVM/s640/IMG_0873.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-F_GvQ_iSAws/T1PQVQsxi9I/AAAAAAAAUQw/EVnxIS8M-uI/s640/IMG_0875.JPG

Bottom wrap:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-HLB69944uS0/T1PQukRqg_I/AAAAAAAAURI/-h8-XAJKQ38/s640/IMG_0876.JPG

Motor blocks:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ctlfhu_zhSE/T1PRTk7lWRI/AAAAAAAAURk/YsvM-3I5fkU/s640/IMG_0877.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-7HZVBs7iR9I/T1PRT5-mYdI/AAAAAAAAURc/D3aNSoi8rQ0/s640/IMG_0879.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-EX4cS-HfpEw/T1PSNb4rGRI/AAAAAAAAUSI/i4K5qglNHGw/s640/IMG_0881.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-tPfNWJlN4ww/T1PR9JqXHnI/AAAAAAAAUSA/Km5TTJmRctE/s640/IMG_0885.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-DZTcIG3mL90/T1PS4uuEPBI/AAAAAAAAUSs/S3YVdOHTRc8/s640/IMG_0889.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Q__9yN-UPMw/T1PS2g_1RII/AAAAAAAAUSk/JtwZJ0KKBOI/s640/IMG_0890.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-oF9tcuTZ9Ns/T1PTKEMj3OI/AAAAAAAAUS8/GiM3hAeQsvc/s640/IMG_0891.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-iU80o3_etPA/T1PXjIJuvFI/AAAAAAAAUTU/JQaEkf3zOEk/s640/IMG_0893.JPG

[gdjsky01]

Nice!

:wave:

:wave:

:wave:


Can you post a PDF of the patterns?

[JPVegh]

Man! That is one nice looking rocket. Great job!

[Blakkzakk]

Nice!

:wave:

:wave:

:wave:


Can you post a PDF of the patterns?



X2

That is a sweet looking rocket!

[hornet driver]

Very tiny and very COOL ! Well done. H

[peter_stanley]

Nice!

Can you post a PDF of the patterns?



Thanks everyone for the kind words. I have all the templates and any related files in a Google docs collection here (https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B7RVVljHBinnUEVTUlRTY0FSaTIwNmoyZ29LLU9Cd w). The link should work without requiring a login. If anyone has trouble with it though, let me know and I'll post as an attachment.

[Micromeister]

Very nicely done Peter!
KEWL looking model. Wonderful method on the transition Thanks for sharing the method.

[peter_stanley]

Very nicely done Peter!
KEWL looking model. Wonderful method on the transition Thanks for sharing the method.

Thanks and you're welcome! Glad it can be of use.

[jflis]

Man, this just keeps getting better and better :) That thing is sweet from tip to tail! Can't wait to see it painted!

jim

[peter_stanley]

I started finishing, so far have primed and applied a good base coat of white. I'm going to let this dry a while before doing the detailing.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-sIDX5sifjgs/T1a40NxLFtI/AAAAAAAAUT4/7XMKmmQNIkc/s640/IMG_0908.JPG

I'm probably going use the same scheme as my TLP Nike Hercules (Plan Pak version).

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-PJ8HOye2Lok/TfQcq7t0f1I/AAAAAAAAQ_4/boWK0t_jURI/s640/IMG_1432.JPG

[sodmeister]

I don`t visit this section of the forums very often ,and I can see that this is a big mistake ,as I may have missed this superb build of yours.

Very ,very impressive work and on such a small scale :y:

Lovely work :handshake:

Paul T

[peter_stanley]

I don`t visit this section of the forums very often ,and I can see that this is a big mistake ,as I may have missed this superb build of yours.

Very ,very impressive work and on such a small scale :y:

Lovely work :handshake:

Paul T

Thanks Paul! I'm planning to start detailing it soon.

[peter_stanley]

I finished the detailing and re-did my launcher to accommodate clustering. Everything is ready to go. The weather is a little iffy, so may not launch today. I also want to recheck the CP in Rocksim. It looks marginally stable now, but might add a little nose weight to be safe.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ufuqyfB7faQ/T2N6oSFB9DI/AAAAAAAAUU4/6Wp7nqsKNrI/s640/IMG_1315.JPG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-5uQlJctJ3DY/T2N6uBzcRrI/AAAAAAAAUVY/xe3rXom8Kq0/s640/IMG_1316.JPG

I don't have a lot of streamer stuffing room. Originally I wanted to use 1 3/4 in crepe paper, but had to cut it down to 1 1/4 in. I'm calculating an 18.64 ft/sec descent rate with a 20 in x 1.25 in crepe streamer.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-_As9CD1n7dU/T2N6tX3uppI/AAAAAAAAUVQ/PYhnEwBIj1Q/s400/IMG_1319.PNG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-qt3UWFwL1TE/T2N7G-IS6ZI/AAAAAAAAUVk/viSvItSj1us/s640/IMG_1320.JPG

Motors loaded:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-m0mQZ-E-WGo/T2N7IMV2jyI/AAAAAAAAUVs/r2xMb7C3ptU/s640/IMG_1322.JPG

Next to the deuce:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-CQt815ibpPs/T2N7fu9rsMI/AAAAAAAAUV8/zAg1ILY0Zrc/s640/IMG_1323.JPG

The new launcher:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-dgy4a5y4zQU/T2N7m084LBI/AAAAAAAAUWE/dbHsQk0dOlE/s640/IMG_1325.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-TVd9eiHOtVE/T2N76Pi619I/AAAAAAAAUWY/prq0uJDLcbQ/s640/IMG_1326.JPG

I'm estimating 344 ft, but if I have to add some nose weight, it'll be a little less.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-W7JLIbQZqbs/T2N5tgloizI/AAAAAAAAUUQ/QOHUa4oMHA0/s400/IMG_0918.PNG

I'll post some pics after I launch it.

[NJRick]

what a fantastic job!! The Nike Hercules was always a sweet missile..and you have brought her back to life! awesome work!

[gdjsky01]

Yep... no doubt about it, a sweet sweet missile. :clap::clap:

[hornet driver]

That's a fine job buddy, fine job indeed.:cheers:

[billspad]

Can you explain how the cluster wiring on your launcher works?

[peter_stanley]

Can you explain how the cluster wiring on your launcher works?

It was partly based on Crazy Jim's method described here (http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=9700). Although I deviated from his plan for clustering by twisting the leads together. I made two launch attempts and both failed with only one ignitor/motor working. Both times I tried a variation of twisting the leads. The first time I taped the igniter holders together:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-HVSziDrEM90/T2X95U3yJcI/AAAAAAAAUcQ/LyRLc68Af_s/s800/IMG_1341.JPG

For the second attempt I taped the igniters to opposite sides of spent motor casings and taped the two casings together. This gave me the correct spacing.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-rVEU6Bvdh7g/T2X9RYu9XvI/AAAAAAAAUb4/AqbPPjjPeNY/s800/IMG_1363.JPG

I think twisting the short leads on so many motors is the problem. Something is probably touching where it shouldn't.

I'm going to try CJ's micro clustering method and wire several clips to a terminal block (or maybe just make a tiny clip whip). This will require a trip to Radio Shack.

My liftoff shots are still pretty cool with only one motor lit (at least for the first 10 feet). I did add 3 grams of nose weight to move the CG up some, just to be safe. This affects my predicted altitude for all 4 motors by about 90 feet, and changes my estimated descent rate to 21 ft/s.

Here are my liftoff shots: (These are stills from video taken with my iPhone mounted on a stick)

Flight 1:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-GopLHC1a4Tc/T2X-EPYwiQI/AAAAAAAAUco/HkRBJqH4jpc/s800/IMG_1349.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-pvaUOXxziy8/T2X-GualZ3I/AAAAAAAAUc4/gWtQaJwafJY/s800/IMG_1350.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-13AqjAcl3Og/T2X-IVuXtiI/AAAAAAAAUdE/GDgPquxwX2E/s800/IMG_1351.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-oQjtELXSAls/T2X-MLFAwDI/AAAAAAAAUdQ/uLIOimHZLcE/s800/IMG_1352.JPG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-nWMbBc7-dMg/T2X-L8yFuhI/AAAAAAAAUdM/03a43vDOGCQ/s800/IMG_1353.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-uII882EEZmQ/T2X-NduKqSI/AAAAAAAAUdc/maaugHfrflE/s800/IMG_1354.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-exMivrvrydI/T2X9JMSxwCI/AAAAAAAAUbo/v5u9wg5PXOM/s800/IMG_1361.PNG

Flight 2:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-RrowQcV68EA/T2X7bj2gqCI/AAAAAAAAUZU/eq3S2NI0T4c/s800/IMG_1380.PNG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-CJkZVDF1pnI/T2X7eRjn7ZI/AAAAAAAAUZc/0Zj-ZahIs3I/s800/IMG_1381.PNG

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-3SMq9iR9PgY/T2X7jGloYkI/AAAAAAAAUZk/9Ievpt0FK5k/s800/IMG_1382.PNG

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-FGttJCAa27w/T2X7kwxvCOI/AAAAAAAAUZs/g1sFvVx7pxw/s800/IMG_1383.PNG

[billspad]

It was partly based on Crazy Jim's method described here (http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=9700). Although I deviated from his plan for clustering by twisting the leads together. I made two launch attempts and both failed with only one ignitor/motor working. Both times I tried a variation of twisting the leads. The first time I taped the igniter holders together


Okay. I thought the wires that went through the cardboard tubes somehow connected to the ignitors. But that gives me idea that I want to try and maybe you can use. I've used these things (http://www.allelectronics.com/mas_assets/cache/image/1/a/c/7/6855.Jpg) mounted on a piece of circuit board for a 5 cluster. They work but they're not adjustable. If you solder a pair on those pieces of speaker wire and connect all the speaker wires in parallel. You should come up with something adjustable that won't short. By the way, nice looking flight even if only one motor fired.

[Micromeister]

Peter & Bill:
You might also want to try using a Relay ignition method. I've been using this method for almost 30 years now and since switching to it I can count the number of unlit motors on one hand after litterally thousands of clustered model launches.
Attached below is the Rangebox Relay drawing (just about everything is RS parts), & cluster wiring setups I've used all these years.
Use of the mil-Max connectors could be a fine idea as long as they are used with an adjustable spacing fixture with flexable lead wiring. I use the .100" size with my floating head micro Piston & ignitors.
One thing to keep in mind; Give the motor/igniter connection enough wire to move a bit. NO Two motors will ignite exactly simultaneously no matter how well you match motors, igniters, wire gauge, lengths etc. Clusters NEED a little bit of first motion movement allowance to give the remainder of the motors time to lit before stripping the ignitor from contact with the BP.
I use this method with all type BP motors MMX to E9's in clusters 2 to 12 motors.

Your Nike Herc. 4 motor cluster is exactly like my 4 motor Ranger, which has flown 17 times with all motors working. Heres a pic of one Ranger liftoff to give an idea of the Smoke & Fire you should be getting:)
Hope this helps.

[billspad]

Peter & Bill:
You might also want to try using a Relay ignition method.

My problem has never been getting enough current to the igniters. It's getting the igniters in the right spot with my fat fingers.

[peter_stanley]

Peter & Bill:
You might also want to try using a Relay ignition method. I've been using this method for almost 30 years now and since switching to it I can count the number of unlit motors on one hand after litterally thousands of clustered model launches.
Attached below is the Rangebox Relay drawing (just about everything is RS parts), & cluster wiring setups I've used all these years.
Use of the mil-Max connectors could be a fine idea as long as they are used with an adjustable spacing fixture with flexable lead wiring. I use the .100" size with my floating head micro Piston & ignitors.
One thing to keep in mind; Give the motor/igniter connection enough wire to move a bit. NO Two motors will ignite exactly simultaneously no matter how well you match motors, igniters, wire gauge, lengths etc. Clusters NEED a little bit of first motion movement allowance to give the remainder of the motors time to lit before stripping the ignitor from contact with the BP.
I use this method with all type BP motors MMX to E9's in clusters 2 to 12 motors.

Your Nike Herc. 4 motor cluster is exactly like my 4 motor Ranger, which has flown 17 times with all motors working. Heres a pic of one Ranger liftoff to give an idea of the Smoke & Fire you should be getting:)
Hope this helps.

John,
Thanks for the info! It's very helpful.

[Micromeister]

My problem has never been getting enough current to the igniters. It's getting the igniters in the right spot with my fat fingers.

6'-2" 350lbs....I hear ya!

One of the reasons I always use the Wadding ball/tape method prepping cluster motors MMX & UP. Takes all the fight out of wondering if you have the igniter wire in contact with the propellant.

Drat! page-2 of the 4motor cluster igniter installation is to larger. I've substituted simple wadding-ball tape single motor installation...works exactly the same with the motors already inserted in the model. Not all clusters need to have the motors installed first, Only those with long swept back fins the get in the way when taping. Hope this helps.

[peter_stanley]

John,
Do you think the bare nichrome with wadding/tape method will work with my 4-motor cluster using a non-relay launch controller? I'm currently using a Pratt Hobbies Go Box controller with a 12 volt 7amp gel cell. I'm not sure if I would have enough current. If not, would a smaller gauge wire be better? Also, will any kind of 30 gauge (or higher) bare nichrome wire work for the igniters. I found this on eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/220624385350?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649).

thanks,

Peter

[Micromeister]

John,
Do you think the bare nichrome with wadding/tape method will work with my 4-motor cluster using a non-relay launch controller? I'm currently using a Pratt Hobbies Go Box controller with a 12 volt 7amp gel cell. I'm not sure if I would have enough current. If not, would a smaller gauge wire be better? Also, will any kind of 30 gauge (or higher) bare nichrome wire work for the igniters. I found this on eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/220624385350?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649).

thanks,

Peter

Peter:
30ga (.0100"dia) bare Nichrome is my first choice for MMX igniters. I use them over all others for everything except clusters.

To be as direct as I can. I also Use a Hobbico 7amp/hr 12volt gel-cell for almost all my micro flying if away from our large club launches. It is the battery used with my Rangebox relay system for just about all clusters up to 8no matter what range i'm on. The battery has the power, the problem is the distance between the battery and the igniters and the lag time taken heating the wire.
Dougs Go Box controller is a wonderful little system, I've used one on several occasions and it is touted as being useful for cluster ignition....However this system was devised & designed around Estes solar igniters, That is pyrogen tipped iginters, So i'm afraid the short answer to your question is Not very reliably! Can it work...Sure! will it work each time..not likely.

Somewhat better 2 & 3 motor ignition has been had with a Nitrocelluose Lacquer coated (dipped) 30ga nichrome. but there again until we get the power to the launcher side of the system there is a lag time in igniter heating. It is this wire heating Lag, minute differences in the time taken to bring the BP up to ignition temp and amount of first motion travel that make Cluster ignition with bare nichrome so Iffy.
Two motor clusters No biggie; Three motors..things start getting a bit tougher...4 motors much harder.

I've gone as thin as 38gauge which is far to thin for use even as bridge wires. 34 or 32ga might help a little but they also burn though quicker sometimes before lighting the BP.

The Wadding ball/tape method will ensure the igniter stays in place as long as it can before being dislodged by movement under the power of the early lighting motor(s) but differences in heating still make 4 motor clusters less then a sure thing. The further away our power supply the less likely all well ignite or go as planned. Relay ignition systems and/or low current pyrogen tipped igniters really take much of the fight out of clustering. That is why Quests Q2g2 igniters have made such a difference in larger motor cluster ignition:) Sure wish Mr. Stine had continued to dip the Micro Maxx motor igniters....alas we'll have to continue doing it ourselves for clusters.

[peter_stanley]

Peter:
30ga (.0100"dia) bare Nichrome is my first choice for MMX igniters. I use them over all others for everything except clusters.

To be as direct as I can. I also Use a Hobbico 7amp/hr 12volt gel-cell for almost all my micro flying if away from our large club launches. It is the battery used with my Rangebox relay system for just about all clusters up to 8no matter what range i'm on. The battery has the power, the problem is the distance between the battery and the igniters and the lag time taken heating the wire.
Dougs Go Box controller is a wonderful little system, I've used one on several occasions and it is touted as being useful for cluster ignition....However this system was devised & designed around Estes solar igniters, That is pyrogen tipped iginters, So i'm afraid the short answer to your question is Not very reliably! Can it work...Sure! will it work each time..not likely.

Somewhat better 2 & 3 motor ignition has been had with a Nitrocelluose Lacquer coated (dipped) 30ga nichrome. but there again until we get the power to the launcher side of the system there is a lag time in igniter heating. It is this wire heating Lag, minute differences in the time taken to bring the BP up to ignition temp and amount of first motion travel that make Cluster ignition with bare nichrome so Iffy.
Two motor clusters No biggie; Three motors..things start getting a bit tougher...4 motors much harder.

I've gone as thin as 38gauge which is far to thin for use even as bridge wires. 34 or 32ga might help a little but they also burn though quicker sometimes before lighting the BP.

The Wadding ball/tape method will ensure the igniter stays in place as long as it can before being dislodged by movement under the power of the early lighting motor(s) but differences in heating still make 4 motor clusters less then a sure thing. The further away our power supply the less likely all well ignite or go as planned. Relay ignition systems and/or low current pyrogen tipped igniters really take much of the fight out of clustering. That is why Quests Q2g2 igniters have made such a difference in larger motor cluster ignition:) Sure wish Mr. Stine had continued to dip the Micro Maxx motor igniters....alas we'll have to continue doing it ourselves for clusters.

John, thanks for all the info you've shared. I think I'll be making a trip to Radio Shack soon.

[peter_stanley]

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-fs_fXTPm_AM/T24as-zYiDI/AAAAAAAAUmk/RYcXUBknb3A/s800/9383FAAE-68EA-4999-BD6A-A54C7620360A.PNG

Against good judgement I made a third launch attempt (I was bored waiting for the phone company to fix my DSL). I had four Q2G2 igniters left, so I dipped the tips in pyrogen. I then attempted a wadding tape method, which I think worked fine, but probably taped them in too well, and my retention method was lame.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-KCCAyHf9k0E/T23nH0mpCEI/AAAAAAAAUfc/AmRdODRhHFQ/s800/IMG_1409.JPG

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-wCCwsbIUBc0/T23nLLavc9I/AAAAAAAAUfs/OoL3qVz-IO0/s800/IMG_1411.JPG

I wired them up and used my Go Box. All igniters lit, but only three motors fired, and they didn't all fire at once. It got hung on the pad while the first two burned. Then the other two igniters lit, with one motor firing, and the other pulling out too early. At this point it left the pad.

I really need to build the relay launcher. (And order more igniters and motors) The three motors that fired blew out of the back too, so my retention method needs work. I don't have enough spacing to wrap tape around the motors and mounts. I have some tiny screws and nuts than might work. I would need to dremel off the head of a screw and glue between the four motor tubes, then screw a nut on after the motors are installed. I haven't checked the fits yet, but is what I'm going to look at next.

Here's slow motion video (http://youtu.be/OoUuDF5E_zs) from two cameras.

[gdjsky01]

Still a very cool liftoff picture!
:cheers: