FlisKits: Sneak peek! (Scale!)

[jflis]

Here's a sneak peek into our next kit announcement. We're a little nervous about this one... The closest we've come to a scale model to date is the Thunderbird. While it has been a very successful kit it wasn't NEAR the work of this one....

Here are some photo's (ignore the scale shown on the decal sheet, it's really 1:282)

First pix: decal sheet. Water slide (silk screened)
Next: overall pix of the model
Next: Closeup of the nose cone (nothing special, just a conic cone)
Next: close up of the mid-body detail

Thoughts???

[jflis]

That "T-121" is from Jay Marsh's team from NARAM in 1992. This was his actual entry in that event, for which he took first place. He gave the model to me as a thank you for designing it for him (actually, he came to me about the model I had already designed. Jay then helped me work out the scale inconsistencies I had with the design)

Our current goal is a mid-late June release. All of the documentation is complete and is being reviewed/proofed at this time. I am working on the final proto build while having another built elsewhere.

This was a staggering amount of work and I hope everyone is as pleased with it as I am.

For specs, it is 9.31" tall, 0.976" diameter, 1.73" fin span, 13mm power.

This will be listed as a Skill Level 4 but will include hints and tips to build it as a SL3 and a SL5 also.

I have attached an example of what the cover art is going to look like and I welcome feedback from the rocketry community. If this kit meets the needs/desires of the rocketry community we will do more of this caliper. I just have to gear myself up to grind through the work that goes into such a project LOL

As I said, this is just a sneak peak. We have no firm announcement date at this time, just goals. Most custom parts have been ordered and I am awaiting additional feedback on various things, but keep watch and feel free to provide feedback on what you have here and to ask questions.

Have fun,
jim

[JRThro]

Looks great, Jim! Any idea on pricing?

[Pantherjon]

SWEET! I will be in line to get one or three!:w::wave:

[harsas]

Beautiful. I only have one queston. Who is going to build that tower for me? Seriously, I would love one. Better start my (old, fat, shaky) finger excersizes now.

So, when do you start on the Saturn V?

Wait, that's 2 questions.
:D

[dcastle]

Looks great Jim...just what I need, another Saturn IB for in my build pile to join the Estes 1/100, the Semroc, Apogee and a Dr. Zooch all waiting for glue and paint....

I will absolutely buy one or two of these! Great work, I am looking forward to seeing this kit in production!

Dan

[powderburner]

Are you going to offer an alternate MMT for eight MMX motors?

[chanstevens]

Are you going to offer an alternate MMT for eight MMX motors?

I tried that angle on him, but the tanks are T-2 and fitting MMX's would be pretty darned tough to manage without little slip-on (and tape) adaptor tubes, which would probably not be legal in NAR competition.

--Chan Stevens

[AKPilot]

Sweeeeet!

I saw this up at NARCON (under glass) and it's a cute little thing!

[Phred]

Awesome. I am in!!

[jflis]

Beautiful. I only have one queston. Who is going to build that tower for me? Seriously, I would love one. Better start my (old, fat, shaky) finger excersizes now.

So, when do you start on the Saturn V?

Wait, that's 2 questions.
:D

This kit will come with a wealth of potential detail and offers a major feature in that the instructions allow you to build at 3 different skill levels (3, 4, & 5). It will be billed as a skill level 4 but with big mention that it can go either direction in that respect.

For the Skill Level 3 version you have a cut-out *image* of a tower that you score and fold and use that instead of building a complex tower. The Launch Escape Tower part will have a long shoulder on it that gets glued to the nose cone with the paper wrap around it. Looks great on display and in flight but takes only a few minutes to make :) (see the attached figures from the instructions)

As for the Saturn V... ...I hope to have the proto type at NARAM :D

jim

[jflis]

We're very excited about this kit release and are hoping it goes over as well as we think. Only time will tell.

I first designed this back in the 80's and when I started FlisKits I had plans to put it right into production. Then I started working on it... It got to the point where I was doing nothing else *but* work on this kit and had to set it aside to get other real work done... :)

This happened about 4 times over the years and this year I finally decided it had to get done. Heck I even lost my previous 3 proto type builds over the years... I was thrilled when, in February, I finished the figures for the instructions LOL

Originally we were going to announce this at NARAM until we noticed peanut scale event being held there so we figured we would get it out earlier in the hopes that some would consider this for NARAM competition.

I know we're not giving you folks very much time but June was the best we could do in the way of an accelerated release date. This one is getting looked at 6 ways from Sunday before we put her out there... Heck, there are 13 figures spread over 3 pages just for the complex launch escape tower! (oh man, what have I done now??) You can see one of those attached here. The complex launch escape tower has 46 parts and stands about 1.5" tall (with 1 of those 46 parts being the 1" tall turned balsa part on top...)

The overall kit, if you apply all of the surface detail shown, amounts to well over 110 parts. It has the same level of detail as other Saturn 1B models done in far larger scale.

The advantage is that it can be greatly reduced down in detail and still look absolutely fantastic :)

We even provide decals for the reaction control thrusters on the service module (or you can opt for the 4 part, assembled (3D) RCS motors, if you have the eyes for it :) )

All in all, you will be getting your moneys worth.

Price will be under $25, but we're still working out the details there. Stay tuned.

[SwingWing]

Looks like you have a winner there Jim!!!:) I'm not a big scale nut, but this looks very interesting to me. Just what I need is a project that will take lots of time........

[billspad]

I tried that angle on him, but the tanks are T-2 and fitting MMX's would be pretty darned tough to manage without little slip-on (and tape) adaptor tubes, which would probably not be legal in NAR competition.

--Chan Stevens


But four should fit with a little internal surgery.


Hey Jim, if you hurry up in finish them in time for the 5/30 CMASS launch I'll bring my credit card.

[mjennings]

Awesome! yeah Jim! :D :D looks really good, I'll have to grab this one when it comes out.

[sandman]

I seem to recall a Little Joe II Micro Maxx model you have all the plans and patterns for that is almost the same scale.:rolleyes:

[jflis]

I seem to recall a Little Joe II Micro Maxx model you have all the plans and patterns for that is almost the same scale.:rolleyes:

You know... while doing this kit I pulled those out and have them setting on my monitor... only a matter of time (time... I used to know what that was... now it's all just a blur...) :)

jim

[troj]

You know... while doing this kit I pulled those out and have them setting on my monitor... only a matter of time (time... I used to know what that was... now it's all just a blur...) :)

You know, Jim, being the generous guy that I am, I'd really hate to see you losing that valuable space to those parts.

So, please, feel free to put them in a box and ship them my way, where they'll be given a loving home, and Daniel will thoroughly enjoy them! :)

-Kevin

[dwmzmm]

You got one sold on me, Jim. Make sure you save one for me :D . Looks incredibly detailed for the scale! Gotta have one!!

[FatBoy]

Very impressive, Jim! It looks like it should be a winner.

[harsas]

This kit will come with a wealth of potential detail and offers a major feature in that the instructions allow you to build at 3 different skill levels (3, 4, & 5). It will be billed as a skill level 4 but with big mention that it can go either direction in that respect.

For the Skill Level 3 version you have a cut-out *image* of a tower that you score and fold and use that instead of building a complex tower. The Launch Escape Tower part will have a long shoulder on it that gets glued to the nose cone with the paper wrap around it. Looks great on display and in flight but takes only a few minutes to make :) (see the attached figures from the instructions)

As for the Saturn V... ...I hope to have the proto type at NARAM :D

jim


Well, while my fingers are truly pleased, the builder inside me just won't let me do it. It would not be right. After seeing the next post, I have doubled up on my finger excersizes....
;)

So when is NARAM again?

[RoyAtl]

it was this one? This was Jay's entry at NARAM 32 in Chicago, 1991.

[jflis]

it was this one? This was Jay's entry at NARAM 32 in Chicago, 1991.

OH KEWL! I don't have any pictures from the event! Yep, that be the one :) Have had her under glass for over 17 years now :)

Is that Ed Lacroix looking on?

Anyone else with pix from this event? It would make a great addition to the photo album I will be putting together for this kit.

[Rocketcrab]

Put me in line with everyone else!! :)

[Micromeister]

I'm in for one Jim!
It will be Micro Clustered for sure;) Any idea on a release date?

[jflis]

I'm in for one Jim!
It will be Micro Clustered for sure;) Any idea on a release date?

If I were to make a guess I would say the week of June 22nd.

[falingtrea]

OH KEWL! I don't have any pictures from the event! Yep, that be the one :) Have had her under glass for over 17 years now :)

Is that Ed Lacroix looking on?


Yup! It sure is the Ed'inator. And that is the "old" Apogee tower in the bottom corner.

[jflis]

Yup! It sure is the Ed'inator. And that is the "old" Apogee tower in the bottom corner.

Ed an I go back a ways. I helped him with a couple of designs (an egg lofter shroud with custom logo's/decoration for example). When Brian and I started FlisKits we called Ed to talk about "rocket companies" as we knew we would value his feedback.

He had only one piece of advice for us...

..."don't do it"... LOL

We didn't listen... :)

[Pantherjon]

If I were to make a guess I would say the week of June 22nd.

MAN, we gotta wait a whole month?!:shock:;)

[dwmzmm]

MAN, we gotta wait a whole month?!:shock:;)

You could just build more models while you're waiting......
:D

[n3tjm]

You could just build more models while you're waiting......
:D

True :p Estes and Quest has several nice new kits, many include PLASTIC Nosecones :P

I'm kidding :P Build a Nantucket Sound, Tiddlywink, and/or a Dead Ringer while you wait!

(I have a feeling I am a Dead Ringer now!!!)
Jim -> :bangpan: <- Doug

[sandman]

Who would have thought...

The first time I saw that model was in the motel room at the Whitaker launch in 2000.

I just sold Jim one of my Saturn 1b kits, yes, there was a time when Jim Flis bought kits!:)

Then mine was the only Saturn 1B kit available. KOSROX had just discontinued his 1/70th scale kit.

Now there are (I think) about 8 different scales of Saturn 12b kits available.

This truly is the "Golden Age"!;)

[jflis]

Who would have thought...

The first time I saw that model was in the motel room at the Whitaker launch in 2000.

I just sold Jim one of my Saturn 1b kits, yes, there was a time when Jim Flis bought kits!:)

Then mine was the only Saturn 1B kit available. KOSROX had just discontinued his 1/70th scale kit.

Now there are (I think) about 8 different scales of Saturn 12b kits available.

This truly is the "Golden Age"!;)

What would be REALLY kewl would be to put together a display at NARAM showing all of the scales currently available of the S1B, or perhaps all of the scales that have *ever* been available. That would be awesome!

[cosmodrome]

Ed an I go back a ways. I helped him with a couple of designs (an egg lofter shroud with custom logo's/decoration for example). When Brian and I started FlisKits we called Ed to talk about "rocket companies" as we knew we would value his feedback.

He had only one piece of advice for us...

..."don't do it"... LOL

We didn't listen... :)

Now that's funny!!! He gave the same piece of advice to me. Guess I listen just about as good as Jim does. :roll:

[chanstevens]

I'd love to see a pic of a Flis 1b next to a Sheri's 1b. The Flis could probably fit inside one of Sheri's F-1's.

[troj]

Sheri - Can you identify each of the Saturns in the comparison pic?

I'm curious....

-Kevin

[mikeyd]

Sheri - Can you identify each of the Saturns in the comparison pic?

I'm curious....

-Kevin

This is just a guess, but I would guess, from the left to the right

Dr. Zooch's 1/245?, Appogee's 1/70, Sheri's 1/48, and Estes 1/100

Happy Flying
Mike Dickinson

[dwmzmm]

This is just a guess, but I would guess, from the left to the right

Dr. Zooch's 1/245?, Appogee's 1/70, Sheri's 1/48, and Estes 1/100

Happy Flying
Mike Dickinson

Yeah, that's what I think, too, but was going to let Sheri answer that herself.....:rolleyes:

[DTRocket]

I will definitely be buying one. The 1B is one of my favorite rockets.

[jflis]

Well, we have another club launch tomorrow (CMASS) and I just finished another rough boilerplate to test the nose weight option. This is an option where you have two choices on the type of stability options you want:


Use a separate "stabalizing fin unit"
Add enough nose weight such that the scale fins will be enough (best for scale competition)



In the instructions (if you opt for nose weight) I have you drill a 1/4" hole 1 1/2" deep into the base of the nose cone. Based on today's findings, that will now become a 3/8" diam hole 1 3/4" deep (to hold enough clay). It takes a lot of nose weight to get the CG right for the fins to work. The beauty is that this is not intended to be a high flier. Rather it is intended to *look* good.

I have only ever flown this design with the separate fin unit. I know she will fly with the scale fins as that is what Jay did for his competition entry of this kit. I added enough nose weight to bring the CG about 1/10" *higher* than what Jay has on his build (just a little buffer to be safer :) )

I will be flying this tomorrow and we'll see how she does.

Here are some pix of the latest boilerplate build (note, a very rough build to test some steps in the instructions):

One fin cut and shaped
Fin with the fin wrap (imagine this *times* eight... :) )
The "skill level 3" launch escape tower (cut out pattern, folded and glued)
Here is a close up of the tower attached to the model
Actually looks quite good at arms length :)


I'll post more tomorrow!
jim

[jflis]

Well, we have success!

The first flight was unstable, but not by much. Adding a little more nose weight solve that problem in a big way and I got some great flights on 1/2A3-4T and A3-4T motors. I am very pleased!

Here are some pix (from different flights)

Saturn 1B on the pad
LIFTOFF! right past the CMASS flag
Under full (8") 'chute
Soft landing, ready to go again :)


We had a great day of flying. You can see the whole photo album by clicking this link. (http://fliskits.com/photo_album/2009/cmass_may/index.htm)

[billspad]

Here a a few of mine. I got a sequence of four or five frames of it in the air without being able to see the rocket in the viewfinder.

[jflis]

NIce, and thank you. It was good having a few camera's on that little beast :)

[Saluki]

jflis, have any news or updates on the release of the Saturn 1B?

[jflis]

Just "new kit nerves" for such an involved little rocket... :)

Here's the scoop:

Documents printed and received
Body tubes in
2 custom parts ordered and expected soon (see below)
Web pages should be done this weekend


NOTE: A couple of custom parts were ordered a bit later than I had hoped. As a result they won't be in until we leave for LDRS. That being the case we won't be able to kit the kits up until we return on Sunday.

I would expect to be able to begin shipping Wed or Thurs after LDRS.

My hope is to put the kit up for pre-orders before we leave. This will only happen if I get the shipping confirmation on the missing parts. Keep watch :)

One of the parts we just got in last week were the plastic rods needed for the Launch Escape Tower. The attached picture shows the 0.020" (thick :) ) and the 0.010" rods used in this assembly.

We've also made a decision that results in a change to the kit that was made AFTER the documentation was printed (so we will be including an errata sheet...).

For stability we provide 2 solutions:

Separate (removable) fin unit
Adding nose weight to allow the scale fins to stabalize the model


In our flight testing we discovered that clay wasn't dense enough to get the CG in the correct place so we switched to lead shot. Unfortunately we will not be able to supply the lead shot in the kit, so the kit offers that option (the nose cone is even pre-drilled), but you will have to supply your own ballast.

Keep watch over these forums and our web site for coming announcements :)
I hope this helps!
jim

[Pantherjon]

Oh my word those plastic rods are thin!:eek:

[Saluki]

Jim,

Appreciate the update. You make it sound like we are going to get a great Saturn 1B.

Thanks in advance.:roll:
Frank.

[jflis]

Well, after much work (spaning 7 years, actually) and gnashing of teeth, the Saturn 1B is now ready for pre orders :)

You can find out more By clicking this link to the S1B thread. (http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?p=36257#post36257)

Thank you all for your strong support as we worked to get this kit out. I have several other scale models of the US manned space program on the board for future release. This is our most complex to date (not just the "kit", but getting such a kit into production). I am glad that it is now out there.

Hopefully all that work was worth it :)

jim

[chanstevens]

Oh my word those plastic rods are thin!:eek:

I've been working on the tower using those plastic "rods" (the fat one's the size of a hair, and the skinny one's, well...) and finally found something even more painful and frustrating to build than the Estes/Semroc Saturn towers. You'll definitely need magnifying lenses on the ol' eyes when building this. I can't imagine how Jay Marsh pulled it off on his, soldering with wire no less!:eek:

[BobCox]

In our flight testing we discovered that clay wasn't dense enough to get the CG in the correct place so we switched to lead shot. Unfortunately we will not be able to supply the lead shot in the kit, so the kit offers that option (the nose cone is even pre-drilled), but you will have to supply your own ballast.
Why can't you provide the lead shot? Is it because lead is toxic? Could you use BB's instead? Or maybe a screw with a washer?
Maybe switch from balsa to basswood for the nose cone. Solves the weight problem, and also makes it easier to finish.

[jflis]

Why can't you provide the lead shot? Is it because lead is toxic? Could you use BB's instead? Or maybe a screw with a washer?
Maybe switch from balsa to basswood for the nose cone. Solves the weight problem, and also makes it easier to finish.

basswood doesn't weigh enough so you would still need nose weight and basswood is a bear to cut and keep clean.

Looking into the problems of shipping a product containing lead became too much of a headache so I stopped in favor of meeting our release date.

Steel (bb's, screw's and such) not dense enough. The weight needed to balance the model is nearly the same as the model weight itself. You will be surprised at how heavy it is with the nose weight. The nose weight needed is about 19 grams or about 0.67 oz....

Remember, most Saturn 1B models either have over sized (non-scale) fins or a lot of nose weight...