First Level 1 rocket?

[RazorConcepts]

What would you reccomend as my first level 1 rocket? I don't plan on going above level 1. Thanks.

[SCE to AUX]

Just finished up a "Wildman Jr." for my L1 rocket. An all fiberglass 2.1" rocket with a 38mm motor mount. Has an electronics bay if you want to go with an altimeter setup.

A pretty easy build, and the fiberglass makes for a RUGGED airframe. Wildman gives a lifetime warranty on these things! :)

http://www.wildmanrocketry.com/default.asp?groupid=1&groupid1=612121482&prodid=344474524070292

[MarkM]

You'll get as many recommendations for an L1 rocket as there members of this forum.
Kits from PML, LOC or Binder Design in the 2.5"-4" range all make excellent and simple L1 rockets.


I don't plan on going above level 1.
Yeah, right. Famous last words. That's what many say and before they know it, they're shootin' for their L3! :)

[Donaldsrockets]

I used a BSD Sprint for my L1. It's a pretty sizable rocket being 5 feet tall and 3 inches in diameter.

Gives excellent flights on H motors and even flies decent on G motors too.

One of these days I plan to fly mine on the H268R or I200W and see just what it's capable of!!!:D

Since BSD is currently down, check out Binder Design. They've got some awesome kits at reasonable prices.

[snaquin]

What would you reccomend as my first level 1 rocket? I don't plan on going above level 1. Thanks.

You'll find plenty of good suggestions in this thread:

http://www.rocketryforum.com/showthread.php?t=661

I used the LOCIV for my first H motor flight.

.

[Handeman]

Mark pretty much hit the nail on the head. You'll get as many recommendations as there are members on this site.

I recommend you answer a few questions.

Do you want to always fly the rocket on H & I motors, or do you want to be able to fly it on F & G motors too? or maybe a small J motor?
Do you want low and slow, or high performance and altitude?
Do you want to try Dual Deployment?
Your answers to that questions will pretty much determine if you get a kit in the 25-50 oz. range or something in the 50-120+ oz. range. Also if it's a near minimum diameter or something short, fat, and draggy.

For something low and slow you can fly with F & G motors, try a Binder Design Thug.
For High performance but still fly on F & G, try a Public Missiles Limited Callisto.
A L1-2 with the ability to use hybrid motors and dual deployment, would be the LOC HYPERLOC 300.
The Performance Rocketry Mad Dog would be a L1-2 fiberglass rocket that would be 5lbs standard, or 7 lbs with DD. Standard can be low and slow on a H and DD version can fly on I while it will scream on a L.

There are literally hundreds of kit you could get. Price is going to be a factor too, at least for most of us. Think about what you want to fly, how high, how you'll fly it after your cert, and what your budget it.

One piece of advice I have, get the largest motor mount tube you can, even if you don't think you will use it. You can adapt down, not up.

BTW, Mark is right about the famous last words.

[Handeman]

double post???

[GaryT]

LOC HI-TECH

[BsSmith]

Yank Mystic Buzz, if you can find one.

If not, Talon 2 or 3

[fox_racing_guy]

Yank Mystic Buzz, if you can find one.

If not, Talon 2 or 3

These are available from LOC/Precision :dark:, you have to call though it's not in the catalog.

[BsSmith]

These are available from LOC/Precision :dark:, you have to call though it's not in the catalog.

Ahhh... So that's why the Mystic Buzz is in LOC's folder on Rocksim! It's a great rocket, flies arrow strait and whistles, and it will fly on a G. I got mine from Magnum just before they stopped selling stuff.

[Viperfixr]

If I had to redo my L1 in the most simple way today, I would go for a 2.5-4" body tube diameter LOC, PML or Binder rocket. I recently flew my LOC Graduator on it's first H powered flight on an H165, and it was a perfect cert-like flight. Here are some other choices:

- PML X-caliber, Tethys, Ariel or 1/4th Patriot (https://blastzone.com/pml/)

- Binder Excel Plus or Isis 38mm (http://binderdesign.com/store/page2.html)

- LOC (http://shop.rocketsbymelissa.com/category.sc?categoryId=14)Graduator, IV, Bullet, Forte, Isis, Shadowhawk, Tweed B or Lil Diter

It's hard to go wrong with most 38mm motor mount rockets. Stubby rockets might present more of a weight & balance challenge than you want in a first HPR. My L1 and L2 rocket was a BSD 38 Special. I highly recommend BSD, but they are on hiatus for awhile--kits not currently available (but Wolfstar says that will hopefully change soon...).

Keep it simple, keep it easy, don't get complicated or fancy.

[bobkrech]

I would suggest a 4" simple 3 or 4 FNC rocket for your L1 cert. This type of rocket is inexpensive to build, and won't go over ~1500' or exceed M ~ 0.4.

I did my L1 with a 4" 4.5 pound 4FNC rocket on a CTI Pro38 H400. It pulled 20+G off the pad so it didn't weathercock, producing a straight and quick up and down flight that landed close to the pad.

Talk to your club members for their recommendations.

Bob

[Pantherjon]

That is pretty much what I did for my L1 as well..Well, the successful one! My first attempt I tried doing dual deploy for the first time as well...But, yeah, what Bob said..I did mine on an Aerotech Sumo rocket on an H123...Use the KISS pricipal, it is your friend! ;)

[Handeman]

That is pretty much what I did for my L1 as well..Well, the successful one! My first attempt I tried doing dual deploy for the first time as well...But, yeah, what Bob said..I did mine on an Aerotech Sumo rocket on an H123...Use the KISS pricipal, it is your friend! ;)

Why didn't you go the DD route on the second try?

I agree with the KISS principle when it's applied to the techniques, methods, and engineering used to obtain your goal, not when it's applied to the goal itself.

I had several rockets I could have done a L1 cert on, but decided I wanted to learn as much as I possible could about L1 rockets and to scratch build a DD rocket for my L1 attempt on an I motor. Once I decided on that, I applied the KISS principle to the design and constructions of the rocket. That design, although as simple as I could make it, did include my goals of DD, an I motor, making my own nose cone, and sewing my own elliptical parachute. I don't think you should let the KISS principle get in the way of achieving goals, you need to use it to help you achieve your goals, there's a big difference.

[Pantherjon]

Why didn't you go the DD route on the second try?
Probably because I was unsure of myself and was shy in asking for help.:o
I agree with the KISS principle when it's applied to the techniques, methods, and engineering used to obtain your goal, not when it's applied to the goal itself.
True..
I had several rockets I could have done a L1 cert on, but decided I wanted to learn as much as I possible could about L1 rockets and to scratch build a DD rocket for my L1 attempt on an I motor. Once I decided on that, I applied the KISS principle to the design and constructions of the rocket. That design, although as simple as I could make it, did include my goals of DD, an I motor, making my own nose cone, and sewing my own elliptical parachute. I don't think you should let the KISS principle get in the way of achieving goals, you need to use it to help you achieve your goals, there's a big difference.

The real problem I had when I did my first L1 attempt along with my 1st DD flight, was that I rushed myself..I could have just as easily flown the same rocket using just motor eject and done fine..But, I think also, I was trying to 'show off' a little? I had done a TON of reading on prepping a DD flight, but actually putting it to practice I stumbled..Hard..Post flight autopsy of the rocket revealed I didn't have enough space between the altimeter's barometric sensor and the sled..But, live and learn..

[RazorConcepts]

Thanks for all the help. I was trying to see if there was a single rocket that most people used for these things, but looks like most rockets are good :cheers:

So now I have a choice... but from the start the wildman jr. rocket just looks great to me. Good price, all fiberglass construction (I never really liked working with wood), and a payload bay. This may be the one :D

[bobkrech]

Thanks for all the help. I was trying to see if there was a single rocket that most people used for these things, but looks like most rockets are good :cheers:

So now I have a choice... but from the start the wildman jr. rocket just looks great to me. Good price, all fiberglass construction (I never really liked working with wood), and a payload bay. This may be the one :D
L1 does not need glass. 4" LOC, Binder Design, or Pole Cat Aerospace kits with 38 mm mounts in the $80-$120 range are simple and easy to build L1 cert rockets.

http://shop.rocketsbymelissa.com/category.sc?categoryId=15

http://binderdesign.com/store/page2.html

http://stores.whatsuphobby.com/-strse-Polecat-Aerospace-cln-4%22-Kits/Categories.bok

You can also get these kits from many vendors.

Bob

Bob

[AKPilot]

Aerotech Sumo is my recommendation.

[FlyBoy]

The Polecat 4" Goblin has a 54mm motor tube and with an adapter can be used for level 1 and 2, just in case you should decide level 1 isn't enough. ;)

[cls]

scratch-build your L1 rocket using a Crayon bank!

[El Cheapo]

I plan on beefing up the fillets on a 2" Diam 100% scratch tube fin I recently built for my L1 in October. It flies great on 29mm G's. After this weekend, we're done w/MPR and HPR launches until September. It get's too flippin' hot to be out in the middle of the desert. I may decide to do it then. I've got other kits that are more than capable but plan on saving one for a glassed L2 dual deploy. For some reason it just means more to me that I've built and designed on my own rather than buying a kit. The L2 kit, which is a Madcow Striker, will be far from stock, fully glassed, dual deploy, handle the longest 38mm motor and have a boattail.

[Bill P]

The Polecat 4" Goblin has a 54mm motor tube and with an adapter can be used for level 1 and 2, just in case you should decide level 1 isn't enough. ;)

I love my Polecat 4" Goblin. It does pretty well on a J-motor, I did my Level 2 on this rocket. It flies respectably on H and I-motors. It loves the Loki I110.

This is a good rocket for K.I.S.S. Level 1 certification flight.



A rocket in the 3"-4" diameter range is a good rocket for certifying L1 and can be used for L2 (it'll happen ;) ). Get the larger motor mount diameter, as others have already said, it can be adapted down, not up.

Consider dual a dual deploy rocket. It can be flow K.I.S.S., motor ejection at apogee. Then after you cert you can play with electronics and get a good handle on dual deploy then.



The best opinion I can share with you is to: talk with the guys that you fly with at the field. They know the field and what works and doesn't work in it. They are your gems.

[Diosces]

Last year I took Hande's recommendation on a Binder Thug as a good medium/high power rocket. Bought it with a 38mm motor mount. Spur of the moment at MDRA launch I did my L1 on it without a hitch. Will also fly well on G78 or 80's.

Extremely STURDY 4" dia rocket so it's got some longevity.
It's next scheduled flight in June is on an I600R :dark:

[Pem Tech]

We would like to suggest our King Kraken.

http://pembertontechnologies.com/images/KingKraken_DSC_4953sized700x466.jpg

She is sleek and sexy and flys great on about everything from a G77 up through H180 and I hope to fly her on a three grain AMW/Pro38 I motor at NSL this year.

[Pem Tech]

Oops, forgot to post the obligatory launch photo.

King Kraken on an H180....

http://pembertontechnologies.com/images/KKH1806579small.jpg

[BsSmith]

I also like the Kraken, I'm just about done with mine. (IT'S SHINY!!! :))

I'm planning on launching it on a 2 grain Blackjack H at NSL. (Get it? Squid squirting ink?)

[RazorConcepts]

Looks sleek but are those fin tubes cut by hand? Something like that is exactly the type of thing I screw up on :o

[Pantherjon]

Looks sleek but are those fin tubes cut by hand? Something like that is exactly the type of thing I screw up on :o

Yes...Actually, it isn't all that difficult of a task to do..Just some patience and making sure you have the proper measurements marked on the tube of where to cut:rolleyes: ;)

[Pem Tech]

Looks sleek but are those fin tubes cut by hand? Something like that is exactly the type of thing I screw up on :o

As pantherjon said, it isn't all that difficult, our Destruction Manual takes you through the process step by step. Measure, draw and cut with an new hobby knife blade. The best bit is that The King Kraken is so different everyone will notice your cert flight.
;)

[MarkII]

As I have been doing for the past 2 years, I am planning on doing my Level 1 flight on a scratch-built upscale of the Estes Javelin mini-brute. Mine will be 2.34" in diameter, 61.7" in length, with TTW plywood fins and a 38mm motor mount. It has a balsa nose cone and a balsa tube coupler at the aft end of the payload section. (I won't be fooling around with DD for this flight, though; I plan on using motor ejection for the recovery deployment.) I can substitute a thick-walled hollow coupler and bulkhead assembly for the balsa tube coupler very easily if I need to. I have all of the parts and have upscaled all of the patterns that I will require; I just need to get going and build it.

The big hold-up for the past couple of years has been getting to a field that is large for the launch of an H. My club's older field has trouble containing an F flight, which we consider to be the maximum for it. (I lost the only F that I have ever launched there. I did launch a G there once, but it was in a saucer.) Our new field is rated for up to a G.

Other than slotting the airframe and mounting the fins through it, I am not planning to do anything special with the construction. It will be a straight-ahead 4.3x upscale, but the materials will already be sufficiently robust (Semroc LT tubing and plywood centering rings, ASP 38mm motor tube, Kevlar and tubular nylon shock cord, nylon chute, appropriate anchoring hardware) for such a flight, and I have verified the design and stability in RockSim 8. The HPR guys in my club have advised me to keep to a dirt-simple design (which I think I have done), to avoid over-building the rocket, and to aim for a quick, low flight. On either an H128W or an H165R, my rocket should just hit 2500 feet, and it will have a nice low DV with a 10-sec. delay. If I find the right field or launch event, this should be fine.

Someone suggested that I get my L1 at LDRS this year, but I am in NAR, not TRA. I have nothing against using a kit for Level 1 certification; I have many kits now and I am always looking to get more when I have some money to spend. However, this is my current plan.

MarkII

[madmax]

No problems to do your Level 1 at LDRS. NAR and Tripoli honor each other's certifications at their launches. All you will have to do is find a couple of NAR certified flyers to observe your launch and sign your paperwork. And at an LDRS there are plenty.

Good luck!

[Handeman]

What he said! Stop by LDRS and do your cert there. If the wind cooperates, you can probably do it on a Aerotech I285R or a Loki I110W without walking off the field. Both would make for a cool flight. You might want to add the DD for the I flight though.

Then you can put an I motor in that saucer back home.

[MarkII]

What he said! Stop by LDRS and do your cert there. If the wind cooperates, you can probably do it on a Aerotech I285R or a Loki I110W without walking off the field. Both would make for a cool flight. You might want to add the DD for the I flight though.
To convert it to DD, it would be easy to just get another piece of LT-225, construct a coupler from some BTH-70 (heavy-wall BT-70, which fits perfectly into the 225), and go from there. I would use the same nose cone, but perhaps reinforce the bottom of it by bonding a bulkhead plate to it. The payload section in my current design is only 14" long. Since my main will be a 30", I'll most certainly have to go with a longer payload section for the DD.

(I recently discovered a glaring error in my RockSim design that I can't believe I overlooked. To make my design be an accurate 4.325x upscale of an Estes Javelin, I need to make my payload section 8" shorter than what I had. My design would now be 53.7" long. Now I just have 100+ flight sims to do over. :rolleyes: But that version of the file with the 22" payload section might be useful after all. It's really great to be able to work all of this out before I ever cut a tube.)


Then you can put an I motor in that saucer back home.
Yup, that's the plan. :D

MarkII

[madmax]

Do you have all your components and recovery gear already? If so, try packing your chute and harness in your tube. As long as you didn't go crazy and get a skyangle or other really bulky chute you should be able to pack that 30" and a generous length of harness in your 14" payload section. I have a 2.26" OD rocket that is dual deploy and 49" long. Upper payload section is just like yours at 14". For a main I use a 36" chute from TopFlight Recovery. Harness is 3/8" flat nylon strap.

[Handeman]

The nylon strap is good, but if you need room, go with the 1/8" tubular Kevlar (https://blastzone.com/performancehobbies/store.asp?groupid=419200512554070). It is strong and small.

[BobCox]

We would like to suggest our King Kraken.
She is sleek and sexy and flys great on about everything from a G77 up through H180 and I hope to fly her on a three grain AMW/Pro38 I motor at NSL this year.

I look forward to seeing that.

[Pem Tech]

Originally Posted by Pem Tech
We would like to suggest our King Kraken.
She is sleek and sexy and flys great on about everything from a G77 up through H180 and I hope to fly her on a three grain AMW/Pro38 I motor at NSL this year.


I look forward to seeing that.

Yeah I was too....
SHould have known better than to put off flying till the last day.

@#%&! 20 mph winds....
:bangbang:

But I got the skidmarks and will shoot photos for you when we launch it here.
It was good meeting you bob.,. FUnny thing is, you don't look anything like your avatar.