Get rid of Post Count

[madsen]

Too many posts are for the purpose of raising the Post Count of a forum member. They even come out and state that this is their intent. I think it is a waste or my time to read a post where someone says that they really have nothing to contribute--but this post was to reach a magic number of posts. It's kind of like a little kid jumping up and down screaming "look at me". I do not understand the need for keeping track of the number of posts that someone makes. Often, it is treated as a "status thing" and appears to encourage silly posts. Now that we are starting over--this is a good time to stop counting. I just got a stroke of genius--I should post a poll and see how many people agree with me. The only problem is that I hate polls even more than I hate post counts.

[mach7]

Sorry you feel that way.

In my case I titled the thread clearly so no one would think it worth anything.

(69)

[Indiana]

Well, I guess I won't post that poll regarding what people think of my post count after all.


:P

[madsen]

Sorry you feel that way.

In my case I titled the thread clearly so no one would think it worth anything.

(69)

Huh? I guess I am missing something.

[mach7]

sorry,

I was referring to the thread I started

"truly useless thread"

The (69) was my post count after my post.

[madsen]

sorry,

I was referring to the thread I started

"truly useless thread"

The (69) was my post count after my post.

Sorry--I never saw it. I shall go look for it.

[georgegassaway]

I agree. I can recall in the past on the old TRF, some people saying they were posting in a thread to increase their post count. And for sure only rarely would anyone who really was posting for that reason would they actually bother to admit to that.

Number of posts made means.... number of posts made. Does not mean how useful the posts are.

Sometimes, a large number of post made does reflect a lot of very useful posts made (Jim Flis). Other times, a large number of posts made....just means a number.

But it seems a lot of people think that raw number of posts does mean something. So I realize the post count will probably stay. And the signal to noise ratio will not improve as it otherwise would if there was not as much incentive to post for no reason.

Having said the above, I have been participating in the Word Association thread, and thereby artificially raising my post count more than it would otherwise be by now.

- George Gassaway

[o1d_dude]

Most forums describe the behavior Madsen is objecting to as "spamming".

I have nothing further to add.

[luke strawwalker]

Too many posts are for the purpose of raising the Post Count of a forum member. They even come out and state that this is their intent. I think it is a waste or my time to read a post where someone says that they really have nothing to contribute--but this post was to reach a magic number of posts. It's kind of like a little kid jumping up and down screaming "look at me". I do not understand the need for keeping track of the number of posts that someone makes. Often, it is treated as a "status thing" and appears to encourage silly posts. Now that we are starting over--this is a good time to stop counting. I just got a stroke of genius--I should post a poll and see how many people agree with me. The only problem is that I hate polls even more than I hate post counts.


I agree... folks who post only to run up thier post count aren't really contributing much.

Personally I don't even look at the post counts... I could care less. I judge the content of the person's post as to whether there is any useful information or a well thought out response that I can either agree or disagree with, or maybe even be persuaded into changing my mind (not easy since I'm usually always right, but I digress :D)

Good and useful information is no less valuable just because it comes from someone with only ten posts, and incorrect or bad information is no less useless even if it comes from someone with 10,001 posts... :rolleyes:

Now, that said, some folks DO use the post counts to help weigh the information, figuring that stuff coming from a 'gray beard' or "wise old man" is more correct or valuable than something else coming from a 'noob'. That may usually be correct, but far from always true...

On the whole I agree with you... post counts start turning into 'peeing contests'... good information will be corroborated and bad information will be challenged, so they really don't serve much purpose at all...

JMHO! OL JR :)

[rstaff3]

Ironic that talking about increasing post counts also increases your post count. Also, many posts saying that are a form of sarcasm in response to something else.

[Peartree]

My personal suspicion is that the post count thing is more of a symptom of everyone's post counts being restarted at zero. It is a novelty that will wear off. As the new database grows it should become less of an issue. On the other hand, if and when the old database gets re-integrated it should likewise go away.


Now has anyone seen Marvin the Martian and his re-integrator?

[AKPilot]

Ironic that talking about increasing post counts also increases your post count.

I was thinking the same thing. A person's post count doesn't bother me in the least. I don't even look at them, unless someone's joking around with something.

What makes the difference to me is the username, followed by good information. I know usernames - I don't know anyone's post count.

[madsen]

A person's post count doesn't bother me in the least. I don't even look at them,

Perhaps I was not clear. I was not objecting to the actual number of posts that someone has--I don't care. I was objecting to posts where someone says "I have nothing to say on this subject--I just needed the increase in my post-count so I could get closer to my goal of 1,000,000 posts". My point is that I would like to see less clutter in the forums. When I come upon a thread with 5 pages of posts, and I want to go back and review what has been said on the subject, I hate to have to wade through posts which have nothing to do with anything--and are only there to give the poster a bigger number.

[AKPilot]

I hear what you're saying Madsen.

Help me though to understand though, how we can determine what content in a post has "nothing to do with anything"? Something of no value to one person, may be of value to another.


And how can we equally police such topics and enforce that?

[cjl]

Perhaps I was not clear. I was not objecting to the actual number of posts that someone has--I don't care. I was objecting to posts where someone says "I have nothing to say on this subject--I just needed the increase in my post-count so I could get closer to my goal of 1,000,000 posts". My point is that I would like to see less clutter in the forums. When I come upon a thread with 5 pages of posts, and I want to go back and review what has been said on the subject, I hate to have to wade through posts which have nothing to do with anything--and are only there to give the poster a bigger number.
There's definitely truth to this, but AK is right that it is nearly impossible to determine. Some forums I'm on have attempted to solve this by making post counts invisible to all but the poster themself, but even that doesn't always seem to work. Honestly, it seems like one of the inherent downsides to forums, and I doubt there's that much that could be done about it.

(51)

[georgegassaway]

Madsen wrote:

>>>--->>
Perhaps I was not clear. I was not objecting to the actual number of posts that someone has--I don't care. I was objecting to posts where someone says "I have nothing to say on this subject--I just needed the increase in my post-count so I could get closer to my goal of 1,000,000 posts".
<<<---<<

AKPilot replied:
>>>>>
Help me though to understand though, how we can determine what content in a post has "nothing to do with anything"? Something of no value to one person, may be of value to another.
<<<<<

I do not think that is what Madsen was asking because indeed, that would not be practical.

But for some, their incentive to post is noting more than to increase the post count, so they post more for the sake of adding another post to their totals (noise) than to post something useful (signal).

Not too long from now, someone is going to brag about being the first to make the 100th post in the new TRF. Most likely, whoever that is, will made lots of their posts just for the sake of increasing their post count (noise) than anything else.

And then a few weeks or months later, someone will brag on being the first to hit 1000 posts. They may think it is a badge of honor, but for those who are just posing for the sake of increasing their post count, it won’t really mean anything.

If the post counts did not exist, that incentive to post would go away. So maybe the people who have been doing that (posting to increase their totals) would spend more time on writing useful content than adding more noise than signal.

Whoa, I just realized we are about to have someone hit 100 posts really soon, maybe before I can post this update edit.

AKPilot is at 99 posts

But moderators sure the heck do not post for the sake of increasing post count....

And now I see JAL3 is at 189 posts. I have not read all messages in TRF, but his do not seem aimed at posting just for the sake of increasing post count. If only that would be true across the board.

- George Gassaway

[JAL3]

Madsen wrote:

>>>--->>
Perhaps I was not clear. I was not objecting to the actual number of posts that someone has--I don't care. I was objecting to posts where someone says "I have nothing to say on this subject--I just needed the increase in my post-count so I could get closer to my goal of 1,000,000 posts".
<<<---<<

AKPilot replied:
>>>>>
Help me though to understand though, how we can determine what content in a post has "nothing to do with anything"? Something of no value to one person, may be of value to another.
<<<<<

I do not think that is what Madsen was asking because indeed, that would not be practical.

But for some, their incentive to post is noting more than to increase the post count, so they post more for the sake of adding another post to their totals (noise) than to post something useful (signal).

Not too long from now, someone is going to brag about being the first to make the 100th post in the new TRF. Most likely, whoever that is, will made lots of their posts just for the sake of increasing their post count (noise) than anything else.

And then a few weeks or months later, someone will brag on being the first to hit 1000 posts. They may think it is a badge of honor, but for those who are just posing for the sake of increasing their post count, it won’t really mean anything.

If the post counts did not exist, that incentive to post would go away. So maybe the people who have been doing that (posting to increase their totals) would spend more time on writing useful content than adding more noise than signal.

Whoa, I just realized we are about to have someone hit 100 posts really soon, maybe before I can post this update edit.

AKPilot is at 99 posts

But moderators sure the heck do not post for the sake of increasing post count....

- George Gassaway

I just checked and I'm closing in on 200...and I could not care less. As far as I can tell, mine have either been build threads or comments on another post plus a few of what I would call "sociable".

Although I consider TRF to be my "home" I visit most of the sites I know about. I have found that each has its strength. I just came back from N3, though, and apparently they detest TRF in general and me in particular. At least that seems to be the consensus in one of their threads.

Its a shame. It was not my favorite but I did learn stuff there and I did appreciate that. Still do but don't feel like going back any time soon.

[sunward]

....If the post counts did not exist, that incentive to post would go away. So maybe the people who have been doing that (posting to increase their totals) would spend more time on writing useful content than adding more noise than signal....

A few solutions can be looked at when time permits.

One would be to hide post counts in the threads but not in the member's profile.
Second, would be to cap the thread count. So if someone posts, say 300 times, their thread count would always show 300.

Just an idea.

[DRAGON64]

post counts?

Quality over content any day...followed by lots of pics.

Forums and members are judged by the quality of the content they provide, not the quantity.

[georgegassaway]

After I made my post, I did an edit update. But JAL3 must have seen and copied my reply before I added this edit:

>>>>>
And now I see JAL3 is at 189 posts. I have not read all messages in TRF, but his do not seem aimed at posting just for the sake of increasing post count. If only that would be true across the board.
<<<<<

I'm sorry I had not even discovered how to look up the highest number of posts until after I had made my reply.

Having seen a number of examples of JAL3's posts, definitely his do not fit into the posting for increased post count category. His fit more in the Jim Flis category.

JAL3 wrote:
>>>>>
Although I consider TRF to be my "home" I visit most of the sites I know about.
<<<<<

I consider TRF to be "home" too. I may check out some info on some other places. I really just wanted to pick ONE place as a general rocket forum to go to, and post to, as a contrast to some specialized Yahoogroups I take part in such as ContestRoc and Rocket Boost Gliders. I do go to some other forums, ad post to a few on occasion, but it had not been much before the TRF outage.

- George Gassaway

[AKPilot]

I have to apologize to Madsen, but there's no simple way to deal with it, and maybe it simply shouldn't be dealt with.

There's really no harm or detriment in having post counts up there. It doesn't hurt or effect anyone. For some it may actually be of benefit. It simply may be that some people feel bad because they don't have a lot of posts, for others high post counts may be a badge of honour. However, I think that most simply don't think or reflect on posts counts.

I think what really matters is what the topics and conversations are about. If there's something I don't feel is germaine, I simply filter it out. I don't ask people to change. Even when Ben is home from school and posting like mad about nothing and everything. Ben I'm playing with you. TRF wouldn't be the same without you, honestly!

[JAL3]

After I made my post, I did an edit update. But JAL3 must have seen and copied my reply before I added this edit:

>>>>>
And now I see JAL3 is at 189 posts. I have not read all messages in TRF, but his do not seem aimed at posting just for the sake of increasing post count. If only that would be true across the board.
<<<<<

I'm sorry I had not even discovered how to look up the highest number of posts until after I had made my reply.

Having seen a number of examples of JAL3's posts, definitely his do not fit into the posting for increased post count category. His fit more in the Jim Flis category.

JAL3 wrote:
>>>>>
Although I consider TRF to be my "home" I visit most of the sites I know about.
<<<<<

I consider TRF to be "home" too. I may check out some info on some other places. I really just wanted to pick ONE place as a general rocket forum to go to, and post to, as a contrast to some specialized Yahoogroups I take part in such as ContestRoc and Rocket Boost Gliders. I do go to some other forums, ad post to a few on occasion, but it had not been much before the TRF outage.

- George Gassaway


I know what you mean. Most of the others have strengths but this is my choice for "all around". I belong to a few Yahoo groups and have even sent a few messages but mostly that is to keep us with what's going on.

[RangerStl]

Don't.........................

[RangerStl]

Panic...............................

[RangerStl]

2 posts plus an explanation to boost my count.

Roll with it, the novelty will wear off. You made the analogy to little kids...

Well you're seeing a bunch of kids high on pure TRF sugar. Just like kids, if you don't make such a big deal out of it, they won't keep doing it.

Some of us live to stir it up. Watch out for the planets labeled "Mostly Harmless"

[rstaff3]

The idea of newness fits with me. My useless count will go down as the number useful threads grow. Well, that assumes anything I say is useful, evah. :D

[DexterLB]

I agree with all that. I suggest making a poll like "For or against post count" and if 2/3 or more of the people vote Against we ask the administrators to remove it.


Don't.........................


Panic...............................

Oh, and consult the Hitchicker's guide to the Galaxy before proceeding :D

[AKPilot]

I agree with all that. I suggest making a poll like "For or against post count" and if 2/3 or more of the people vote Against we ask the administrators to remove it.



Actually, post counts are here to stay folks. I'm sorry if you don't like them but, it's probably something you're going to have to live with.

[Gillard]

I can't see what all the fuss is about.
Remembering the old TRF, there was always a few pointless posts, but not much -not enough to get upset about, and on the new TRF its about the same, with the exception of a few people getting a bit post happy at the start, but then again it was a rare moment for us all when we saw our post counts to be higher than Jim Flis.
i don't look at post counts personally.
when i read one of the many Jal3 posts i don't think he posted lots, this must be good, i usually think how useful his posts are.

just thought i'd throw my opinion into the hat (and i've increased my post count;))

[kelltym88]

Maybe what I have to say isn't much, but it seems devoting an entire thread to discontinuing post counts, while at the same time everyone responding is increasing their post count, although some posters are objecting. C'mon, we've got enough problems going on in life than to worry about someone trying to boost their post counts. I think it's silly. Yes, when TRF got back up, there was a thread specifically designed for that, but it was a joke. If there is someone who is not contributing anything useful amongst a bunch of beneficial ones, just ignore it. I'm not trying to be contentious or rattle any cages, but really, we've got alot of info to try to get back on here than to worry about post counts.

[Firebird]

Post counts are like cert levels. What people decide to do with them, is their business. Some people just like to brag about being L3, or having 2 trillion posts. They think it makes them look 'smarter' or something.

Me personally, I never look at post counts, couldn't care less.

[hilltopper]

I participate in another forum (fatwallet- Hotdeals)
They have an interesting way to deal with this.
They use a red or green bar next to your user name with a red minus button and a green plus button to allow members who read the post to vote on the merit or value of the posts content. I like this as people who are contributing well get a large green bar near their user ID. likewise wise cracking smart alecs get a red bar and you can effectivly skip their posts.Tthe op gets their thread starting post rated as well as the later posters.
The thread listing also displays these bars for the strength of the post.
They still have post counts but less important because people like getting GREEN!:D
check out these examples!
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/897059/

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/758451/

[luke strawwalker]

I participate in another forum (fatwallet- Hotdeals)
They have an interesting way to deal with this.
They use a red or green bar next to your user name with a red minus button and a green plus button to allow members who read the post to vote on the merit or value of the posts content. I like this as people who are contributing well get a large green bar near their user ID. likewise wise cracking smart alecs get a red bar and you can effectivly skip their posts.Tthe op gets their thread starting post rated as well as the later posters.
The thread listing also displays these bars for the strength of the post.
They still have post counts but less important because people like getting GREEN!:D
check out these examples!
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/897059/

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/758451/

Hey that's pretty cool! Neat idea, as long as folks stay objective and judge the post itself and not the poster making it... Wouldn't be good if some folks went, "Oh, no, not another strawwalker post... I HATE THAT GUY!" and just deliberately hit the red button on his posts all the time just because they don't like him or took something personally once or something like that.

Course I think most of the folks here are mature enough NOT to do that, but hey, people are people and I've seen worse... :)

I DO like that idea, though, and I think it has a lot of merit and would be a truly useful tool...

Yall have a good one! OL JR :)

[Handeman]

I don't have any problem with "noise" posts just to up the count or for any other reason, as long as they keep it in The Watering Hole where that kind of stuff belongs.

[RocketT.Coyote]

(Sings the Spam Song in his mind.)

[cjl]

I don't have any problem with "noise" posts just to up the count or for any other reason, as long as they keep it in The Watering Hole where that kind of stuff belongs.
Definitely true to a point - they are far more annoying in a HPR thread or something like that than they are here in the coffee house.

[DexterLB]

I don't have a problem with the noise posts either. But post count makes new members noobs and everybody threats them as noobs, no matter how experienced in rocketry they are... For me that's the biggest problem with post count.

P. S. I'm starting a "for or against post count" poll thread.

[Stymye]

I have seen several first posts by very highly regarded rocketeers. and I have witnessed incessant junk coming from High post count members as well.
post count and noob status are 2 totally different things.
I noticed by chance one poster already has a steady 9-10 daily avg post count ratio and yet their actual contribution to the forum is alarmingly low.

I like Hilltopper's red/green bar idea.

[madsen]

I participate in another forum (fatwallet- Hotdeals)
They have an interesting way to deal with this.
They use a red or green bar next to your user name with a red minus button and a green plus button to allow members who read the post to vote on the merit or value of the posts content. I like this as people who are contributing well get a large green bar near their user ID. likewise wise cracking smart alecs get a red bar and you can effectivly skip their posts.Tthe op gets their thread starting post rated as well as the later posters.
The thread listing also displays these bars for the strength of the post.
They still have post counts but less important because people like getting GREEN!:D
check out these examples!
http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/897059/

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/758451/

I Love it. I would go into the Red on day 1. That's ok. That is the best idea for forums that I have ever heard of. I realize that it is not practical (cost) for TRF---but I love it.

And just for the record--I have no problem with Jim Flis making 9 million posts. He is a vendor, and is trying to sell his kits. I understand that he makes a good product, I wish him well.

[Mark_1984]

I run a model ship related forum and have a Karma system. If a post is particularly useful give it a thumbs up, if its unhelpful, give it a thumbs down. There add or subtract one point to the posters Karma. It works very well - much better than a post count (although I still have a post count as well).

[Stymye]

turn on the "reputation" feature ...if it doesn't work out for some reason...turn it off.

I think it's worth a try.(it's explained in the FAQ) It's already a feature so there should be no cost..

[AKPilot]

I thought about the "reputation" feature. Not sure where we stand on that one. My initial thought is that's far more personal than a number.

Not saying, yes or no. But I'm thinking that's at least two weeks away before it's given serious consideration. Too many other things on the front burner at the moment.

[troj]

I thought about the "reputation" feature. Not sure where we stand on that one. My initial thought is that's far more personal than a number.

Not saying, yes or no. But I'm thinking that's at least two weeks away before it's given serious consideration. Too many other things on the front burner at the moment.

The problem is how to identify a "reputation".

The harsh reality is that the Internet hive-mind is well known for elevating individuals to deity status who don't even come close to qualifying. Without a solid way of flagging people, you'll have someone who comes across convincingly getting flagged as "reputable," even if their advice is some of the worst on the forum.

I've seen enough of it in rocketry to know that it would be a problem here.

My $0.02 worth. (plus a buck-fifty)

-Kevin

[Stymye]

thanks for considering it,mabey just do a trial run, you can always turn it off at anytime if it turns out to cause more harm than good.
I'm not necessarily for it myself but think it's worth considering,

as I understand it ,the individual members can turn it off in their profile if they preferr, and those who preferr to rate threads/posts and view the ratings can.

so it suits both sides of the coin, and couldn't be any more fair.

[Rich Pitzeruse]

Ya know, post counts are kind of like TRA/NAR numbers, only in reverse. The lower your TRA/NAR number, the smarter you are. With post counts, the higher your number, the smarter you are. ;)

[sunward]

I thought about the "reputation" feature. Not sure where we stand on that one. My initial thought is that's far more personal than a number.....

Good idea but then it becomes a problem of trying to get too much reputation.

Capping the number may still be the best and simplest solution.

[AKPilot]

Capping the number may still be the best and simplest solution.


Directed in general, not at Angelo, the simplest solution is probably to move onto another topic. ;)

[fxrs]

When I join a forum its because I am looking for answers to
questions I have. In this case it rockets. I belong to a few
other rocket forums, As well as some RC forums and also
automotive related forums. When I post a question I obviously
read over the answers. I do look at the number of post of
someone who has replied and at first glance if their numbers
are high I might think this person knows what they are talking about.
After all I am looking for people who do know the answer because
I don't. If the high post count persons answer feels off or odd
I will also look at their other post or replys. If the high post count person
has many Dittos, Try it and let us know what happens, I like
red rockets or any other incoherent ramblings on for answers I will
now know not to spend much time with that persons answers in the
future. Also I think some people post answers in various threads
reguardless of post count because they feel the need to be seen
in print.